go somewhere else with your political crapola

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:47 am

I'm seeing a growing trend to vent politcal viewpoints and related diatribe here lately. I suppose it's only natural what with the elections that are taking place all aruond the world. But why do you guys have to vent HERE?

The last time I looked PlanetZ was still a website devoted to Creamware products and music in general. Why can't we leave it at that? This should be neutral territory guys.

I say, leave your political hats and coats at the door from now on please. Anyone else beside me agree?

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:12 am

I can see your point, and I don't really participate in these debates as far as possible (gets me too stressed out). But this is the off-topic forum so I think it's justified - it's not necessary to even read off topic posts (if you just want Pulsar/music-oriented info) unless you specifically want to.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:14 am

LOL... yeah, I remembered last time the political rush happened, I spoke out loudly to stop it... and now I'm writing a bunch of political stuff. LOL.

ya, we should steer back on track. The least we could do is to keep our minds on what matters most. Music.

borg · Post by **borg** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:18 am

I say, leave your political hats and coats at the door from now on please.

well, just look at the OT section as john's back yard, where folks who need it can have a smoke. folks from all over the world, with different backgrounds, different opinions... the situation the world is in seems much more important than music, to me at least.

most of the time i keep out of these discussions, as i feel my knowledge of the english language is not good enough to make a decent conversation regarding such important issues. it would all be too simplistic and sloganesque.
people should at least be able to talk about politics, on Z too.

be glad you're not on the ableton forum. they don't have an OT section... political threads are all over the place.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:45 am

On 2004-11-07 09:18, borg wrote:
well, just look at the OT section as john's back yard, where folks who need it can have a smoke. folks from all over the world, with different backgrounds, different opinions...

that's a nice one

imho there's a kind of common sensibility here in which style talk about certain questions. There's at least a chance for discussions with the goal of extending viewpoints instead of parole batteling.

And as the 'Pulsarians on the beach' thread showed, some 'political' aspects are bloody close (in a very unfortunate sense of the word) to this panet(Z).

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-11-07 09:47 ]</font>

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:54 am

As long as opinions are expressed and respect for all the points of view is kept, even if anyone can think that a particular one is b.s., I think that it is a proof of maturity to have a polite political debate in an off topic forum.

Is typical of evoluted people to be concerned and in search of confrontation on political issues.

Someone in the past went beyond the rules, and after a couple of warnings he was banned.
That episode didn't break the good feeling on plz, it showed instead how high is the average human quality here.

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:55 am

On 2004-11-07 09:12, dArKr3zIn wrote:
I can see your point, and I don't really participate in these debates as far as possible (gets me too stressed out). But this is the off-topic forum so I think it's justified - it's not necessary to even read off topic posts (if you just want Pulsar/music-oriented info) unless you specifically want to.

I understand your point but sorry, I don't agree it's justified. "Off Topic" at PlanetZ means (to me at least) a place where you talk about guitar strings or the latest Britney Spears album or what do you think about lip-syncing?

I applaud John for allowing us to discuss off-topic subjects here. But I don't like to even see the headers related to this other stuff because it risks alienating those of us who come here to just relax (or have a smoke as someone put it).

There's absolutely nothing important going to be resolved here as far as poltical subjects are concerned. It's a complete waste of bandwidth and mental energy. All it amounts to is a release of nervous energy on the part of the original author. I say release your nervous energy someplace else. There are more appropriate places for these subjects. Let's not let PlanetZ be like every other forum (just because it can be). That's one of the reasons I keep coming back here all the time. Because I know I can interact on a higher level with musos who are only here to help each other with their music and Creamware products.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:16 am

On 2004-11-07 09:55, krizrox wrote:
"Off Topic" at PlanetZ means (to me at least) a place where you talk about ........Britney Spears album ....

That would be a more dangerous topic for me in terms of politeness....

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:46 pm

You are not going to like my answer:

You don't have to read or participate in topics you don't like.

Problem solved.

I have found that we have a very intelligent group here and I personally enjoy a little political discussion now and then, as long as it's even handed and polite. I hardly feel like poilitics is dominating the Off Topic section.

Sorry to disagree, but I never have liked it when someone tells me that I "can't" do something because they don't "like" it.

Now if you were complaining about the Cakewalk forum I believe that you would have a point! Those people are all hopelessly political...and no one is polite about it!

IMHO,

R

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:49 pm

BTW:

On the entire first page of "off topic" I find six "politically" related topics, I don't think that qualifies as a problem.

R

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:02 pm

The off-topic forum here is the most civilised I've seen, yet contains views obviously far apart.

Forget about the actual "politics" or subject of any thread, but consider the debate itself.

The fact that we can all keep so calm is something special & worthwhile in itself.

Sometimes - in the real world - people mix in friendship groups where all have similar views. To come here and find online friends with opposite views is good for the mind.

Nothing may be decided but certainly things can be learned.

Post by **hubird** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:00 pm

Wasn't it the feministic movement who said, everything is politics, even the dishes?
I think you only have a problem if people stop argueing and start insulting instead.
Which is, indeed, not the case, on planetz, so I don't see a problem really

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-11-07 17:01 ]</font>

Post by **garyb** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:20 pm

it's ALL just talk. everyone doesn't always have to agree...if emotions are completely uncontrollable THAT might be a problem...

these are events that touch us all, it's only natural to want to comment. if the commenting infected the majority of the threads and people became disrespectful, that would be a bad thing...

america is supposed to be based on this sort of thing(debate and comment). american is supposed to be made of SOVERIEGN people. why is there such a push rowards repression of commentary these days?

also, isn't the repression of political commentary one of the MOST political acts?

i'm sorry (truly) if i upset you krizrox. no disrespect intended.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:34 pm

krizrox

I think you should put the threads into the actual context. An event with tremendous effect on x,xxx,xxx,xxx peoples life has just happened. To me, it was kind of scarry. Shure, I want to talk to my friends about it. And some of those people happen to be PlanetZitizens.It is a wave - things will settle down soon again.

Now lets keep off-topic off-topic, and put the PC hardware talks in the right category: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewforum ... um=19&5400

borg · Post by **borg** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:23 pm

On 2004-11-07 10:16, alfonso wrote:
On 2004-11-07 09:55, krizrox wrote:
"Off Topic" at PlanetZ means (to me at least) a place where you talk about ........Britney Spears album ....
That would be a more dangerous topic for me in terms of politeness....

maybe we should discuss FZ's 'broadway the hard way' from the infamous 1988 tour.

very striking similarities. well, in a way.

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:46 pm

Your points are all well taken and I defer to the good and wise will of the collective consciousness. Didn't mean to come off sounding like a forum Nazi.

I support your right to say whatever it is you want to say as long as it doesn't cause a murder

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:19 pm

As far as i am concerned, the OT section is behaving remarkably well. I ahve been participating to this forum for a couple of years now, and i have to say, the OT section is behaving remarkably well! Sure, we have a lot of different views regarding politics. my concern is people not being able to talk about their political concern to other people. this is actually a factum to many countries. im living in a free country when it comes to expressions (norway), but a lot off ppl around the world arent even allowed to express their feelings politically to forums like these.

1. So as far as i am concerned this OT is just good, as long as it is moderated to some extent (Seldom necesarry, as far as i know the only mods done has been made of ppl talking complete BS, not religion/left-wing/rightwing or whatever). We know, however, that this is a music forum first and foremost, but if you have a political issue, you could of course share your feelings. You would also know that on a general basis, this board would probarly not dwelve too much into these things (as this is a music forum).

*just to clarify point 1; we do dwelve into things, we do find different political views
educational, but again, we do not neccecarily share politacal opinions (which again is a healthy thing)

2. We all have our prejustices. admit it. a forum like this should bring more of us together, whatever polical issues. IE, me for one had a very biased view on israelis before i met red muze. this sounds like im stupid, i know, but you have to remember that media very much color your view on other countries and its citicens.

my sum:
OT is good, political disussions are good. just keep it real

valis · Post by **valis** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:14 am

In the years I've spent here I think I've seen John Cooper oust one (perhaps two) users and both times he was very reticent to do so, emphasizing his desire to not quelch freedom of speech. I think that could apply to this topic.

Ricardo · Post by **Ricardo** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:09 am

Excuse me! Am I in the 'off topic area' where people talk about anything other than Scope?
If anyone doesn't want to join in....well that's fine!

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:23 am

We had a similar situation at work; we were using the internal 'social' newsgroup to post messages about who (from the company) was playing five-a-side football every week (something I set-up by hiring out a local school's sports hall once a week).

Lots of people in the company complained about these posts because, "they didn't want to read about football". This was actually argued over for some time, until the Managing Director decided that:

a) football IS a social event, open to all company employees

a) all football-related posts must have the word 'football' in them

b) people not interested in football-related posts shouldn't read them!

Royston

p.s. it's changed to bloody badminton now

p.p.s. I never read the badminton posts!