Hello Planet Z people I'm new to this site. I've been a creamware user for 7 to 8 years now. I have a Studio in Austin, Texas and a friend of mine wants me to do an independant film. Hes going to buy a broadcast quality video camera with firewire out for computer editing, and I need to get a good video editing program and probably rebuild my computer. I'm still on windows 98 because I use a TDAT-16 card for my main recording program and creamware still hasn't come up with a good Tripple Dat,Bug free, plug-in for the scope platform. and 'Ali' at creamware told me that in windows XP mode the tdat module doesn't even have MIDI on it. I also use cubase for my MIDI program. and sync my sampler and keyboard and drummachine to all of it as well. I'm mainly a guitarists and mastering engeneer. I play all of the instruments for my own music , but we record other bands as well.
I also tried to put a picture of my studio in this message but was unsuccessful. Someone let me know how. I read the 'how to add images' in the Faq section but don't understand it. I seems like you have to have a web site with the picture on it so there can be a URL link. I don't have one. hope that doesn't mean I can't post my studio pic.
Anyway, does anybody know about good video editing programs that would work with the scope platform for the audio mixing and mastering side of it. I have been looking at
Pinnacle systems- Liquuid edition pro 6.0
Avid- express 3.5 or 4.5
Sony- Vegas 5.0
adobie- premier pro
Any help would be greately appreciated as I am new to the video editing side of it and any suggestions about good motherboards, processor, and ram to go with it all when I rebuild my system to handle video and audio editing. 'Ali' at creamware suggested I just build a seperate system for the video editing , but that would leave out the processing power of the scope platform and mixing and mastering capabilities I like so much.
Let me know abouit any suggestions
Thanks, Patrick form Austin
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: patricka6 on 2004-12-11 19:10 ]</font>
Video edditing and pulsar --need advice
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kensuguro
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from my experience... I'd go with avid xpress. Simply because I've worked with it and it worked fairly well for me. I think you need a nvidia card to get it to work. At the time, I had a avid machine. Did the video editing, exported audio to a separate audio machine. (where I had the CW cards)
It's always a good idea to have 2 separate machines cuz it's hard enough to get the PC to do 1 task consistantly.. you don't want to mess with 2, quite media heavy tasks at the same time. I've seen more than too many machines go down at some of the most ciritical times.
The video portion is not going to have much to do with your audio sync/MIDI system. I guess there are ways to sync them... but there's not much meaning I think. Depends on what you want to do.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2004-12-11 22:03 ]</font>
It's always a good idea to have 2 separate machines cuz it's hard enough to get the PC to do 1 task consistantly.. you don't want to mess with 2, quite media heavy tasks at the same time. I've seen more than too many machines go down at some of the most ciritical times.
The video portion is not going to have much to do with your audio sync/MIDI system. I guess there are ways to sync them... but there's not much meaning I think. Depends on what you want to do.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2004-12-11 22:03 ]</font>
hey kensugro and Garyb
thanks for the advice. It does seem that Avid is the most comprehensive editing programs that I mentioned and the most expensive. the video card doesn't sound like a problem but--
how did you export the audio files to your creamware DAW. was it in real time. or did you just copy the files Via' disk and download.
it seemes that if you could sync it through ADAT lite pipe and mix audio in realtime, that would be the way to go. Of course how would you do that. wouldn't you need a ADAT optical output on your video computer to send and sync.
I didn't include final cut because it is mac based. I've always been a PC guy. although I'm not completely against setting up a mac system, but I can set up a pc system in my sleep and would have to learn a new format for Mac.
I still hasven't excluded pinnacle systems mainly because I use cubase which is now owned by pinnacle or vegas because I've heard from 'paul'at creamware that it is a viable recording program that works with pulsar. I just want everything to sync up in SMPTE without to much hassles. But maybe with 2 computers (one for my DAW and the other dedicated to Video) maybe the seemingly advantages aren't realy an issue.
I await further replies and appreciate the help. Especially manufacture specific details on video edditing programs. and coresponding capture and video cards.
I might need to sync 2 or more cameras and multiple audio sources in just one scene and it seems SMPTE is the only way to do that.
Thanks for your help and please le me know any other thoughts and of course ALL help is appreciated.
Thanks again, Patrick from Austin
P.S. I still don't know how to post a studio pic let me know if I can.
thanks for the advice. It does seem that Avid is the most comprehensive editing programs that I mentioned and the most expensive. the video card doesn't sound like a problem but--
how did you export the audio files to your creamware DAW. was it in real time. or did you just copy the files Via' disk and download.
it seemes that if you could sync it through ADAT lite pipe and mix audio in realtime, that would be the way to go. Of course how would you do that. wouldn't you need a ADAT optical output on your video computer to send and sync.
I didn't include final cut because it is mac based. I've always been a PC guy. although I'm not completely against setting up a mac system, but I can set up a pc system in my sleep and would have to learn a new format for Mac.
I still hasven't excluded pinnacle systems mainly because I use cubase which is now owned by pinnacle or vegas because I've heard from 'paul'at creamware that it is a viable recording program that works with pulsar. I just want everything to sync up in SMPTE without to much hassles. But maybe with 2 computers (one for my DAW and the other dedicated to Video) maybe the seemingly advantages aren't realy an issue.
I await further replies and appreciate the help. Especially manufacture specific details on video edditing programs. and coresponding capture and video cards.
I might need to sync 2 or more cameras and multiple audio sources in just one scene and it seems SMPTE is the only way to do that.
Thanks for your help and please le me know any other thoughts and of course ALL help is appreciated.
Thanks again, Patrick from Austin
P.S. I still don't know how to post a studio pic let me know if I can.
I'd capture straight through firewire to vegas 5.
I'd avoid Premier at all costs. I've used it at work and hated it. Vegas is much friendlier and faster to use and has far superior audio handling. (In fact Vegas started as an audio program !)
I don't know Avid too well, so can't really comment.
Poke around Sony's Vegas forum for more:
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/f ... ?ForumID=4
Do a search there for Avid & Premier and read. I'd suggest doing the same on Premier & Avid forums. Nothing like getting a feel for things from the users. Often you'll find people who use multiple apps, or have "crossed over" and they're particularly valuable insights imho.
I'd avoid Premier at all costs. I've used it at work and hated it. Vegas is much friendlier and faster to use and has far superior audio handling. (In fact Vegas started as an audio program !)
I don't know Avid too well, so can't really comment.
Poke around Sony's Vegas forum for more:
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/f ... ?ForumID=4
Do a search there for Avid & Premier and read. I'd suggest doing the same on Premier & Avid forums. Nothing like getting a feel for things from the users. Often you'll find people who use multiple apps, or have "crossed over" and they're particularly valuable insights imho.
hey Spirit
that sounds like a good idea 'checking out the video forum sites for info'. Vegas does sound like it would be easier than premier but it also sounds like a less professional program than premier. I have about a month to make a decision and I'll keep looking. thanks for the advice. I'm starting to feel that I should just build another computer for the video and just swap out my pulsar cards as needed. I just want the mixing and mastering capabilities of pulsar to work with whatever program I go with.
Let me know if anybody uses video editing programs with pulsar/scope platform and which programs will work with pulsar. or as suggested earlier, what would be the best way to import or buss mty audio files to my pulsar computer and keep thjem sync'd up with SMPTE.
Thanks, Patrick from Austin
that sounds like a good idea 'checking out the video forum sites for info'. Vegas does sound like it would be easier than premier but it also sounds like a less professional program than premier. I have about a month to make a decision and I'll keep looking. thanks for the advice. I'm starting to feel that I should just build another computer for the video and just swap out my pulsar cards as needed. I just want the mixing and mastering capabilities of pulsar to work with whatever program I go with.
Let me know if anybody uses video editing programs with pulsar/scope platform and which programs will work with pulsar. or as suggested earlier, what would be the best way to import or buss mty audio files to my pulsar computer and keep thjem sync'd up with SMPTE.
Thanks, Patrick from Austin
I've been researching some programs and heres what I have found
Sonys-- vegas 5.0 + dvd editing...supports ASIO drivers and it seems it would sync up to pulsar and costs about $700
Pinnacle sys-- liquid eddition pro 5.5 with PCI video capture card... also uses ASIO drivers and costs about $7000
Pinnacle SYS---Liquid edition pro 6.0 with USB breakout box... also says it also supports ASIO drivers and costs about $1000 with the breakout box
Avid ---Express DV 4.0 ... cost $650 and is a good comprehensive program but is more mac based even though it works on XP.
Avid --Express pro... costs about $1,600 and is also like express DV but much better. And with the MOJO break out box the price jumps to $2,700
Both Avid product and many more expensive Avid products Seem great but unfortunately they seem to be geared twords Digidesign pro tools and The --Express pro--- even comes with Pro Tools LE And none of the Avid products say anything about ASIO drivers. To bad because the more expensive Avid products Are used in alot of the Hit movies today. Of course these programs are $6,000 and up.
Either way it seems you would need to use pro tools for any of these programs
Has anyone used pinnacles --liquid edition ..with pulsar? Does it sync up like vegas?
And Kensuguro Just how did you export your audio files to crweamware when using your Avid system?
Patrick from Austin
Sonys-- vegas 5.0 + dvd editing...supports ASIO drivers and it seems it would sync up to pulsar and costs about $700
Pinnacle sys-- liquid eddition pro 5.5 with PCI video capture card... also uses ASIO drivers and costs about $7000
Pinnacle SYS---Liquid edition pro 6.0 with USB breakout box... also says it also supports ASIO drivers and costs about $1000 with the breakout box
Avid ---Express DV 4.0 ... cost $650 and is a good comprehensive program but is more mac based even though it works on XP.
Avid --Express pro... costs about $1,600 and is also like express DV but much better. And with the MOJO break out box the price jumps to $2,700
Both Avid product and many more expensive Avid products Seem great but unfortunately they seem to be geared twords Digidesign pro tools and The --Express pro--- even comes with Pro Tools LE And none of the Avid products say anything about ASIO drivers. To bad because the more expensive Avid products Are used in alot of the Hit movies today. Of course these programs are $6,000 and up.
Either way it seems you would need to use pro tools for any of these programs
Has anyone used pinnacles --liquid edition ..with pulsar? Does it sync up like vegas?
And Kensuguro Just how did you export your audio files to crweamware when using your Avid system?
Patrick from Austin
Maybe Pinnacle has improved, but I used some of their gear a few years ago and it was a nightmare. I ended up chucking the whole lot away and moving to Vegas.
Premier has 'reputation' going for it over Vegas+DVD, but imho Vegas is a *much* superior app to Premier. I sometimes use Vegas to do a final arrangement & mix - taking in maybe 12 long wav files. Then I'll render out from there and master in Soundforge.
Of course Avid is the industry standard. The saying used to be that "no one ever got fired for buying IBM". Probably the same applies to video production and Avid....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Spirit on 2004-12-12 22:38 ]</font>
Premier has 'reputation' going for it over Vegas+DVD, but imho Vegas is a *much* superior app to Premier. I sometimes use Vegas to do a final arrangement & mix - taking in maybe 12 long wav files. Then I'll render out from there and master in Soundforge.
Of course Avid is the industry standard. The saying used to be that "no one ever got fired for buying IBM". Probably the same applies to video production and Avid....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Spirit on 2004-12-12 22:38 ]</font>
Hey spirit
Thanks for the advice I haven't ruled out vegas but liquid editions seems to be a more powerful program
You should check out the pinnacle websight and look at liquid edition pro 6.0 it seems to have improved from the earlier editions I found and I also feel drawn twords it because they bought out steinberg and it seems that they would have fortified their ASIO drivers for that reason alone. And I use cubase as well and I am going to get the update to SX 3.0( They only offer the update through the end of this year or you'll have to but the full version for $800). I'm not sure how it will integrate with liquid editions but one would think they improve the stability between their 2 systems. which would of course improve pulsars stability as well.
Ilook forward to more comments and I found a certified Avid' dealer here in town that offers pinnacle, sony and a shitload of other programs and manufactures. I plan to give'em a call and talk shop. I'll report my findings. Hopefully this thread will help future pulsar users that decide to use video editing
Patrick from Austin
Thanks for the advice I haven't ruled out vegas but liquid editions seems to be a more powerful program
You should check out the pinnacle websight and look at liquid edition pro 6.0 it seems to have improved from the earlier editions I found and I also feel drawn twords it because they bought out steinberg and it seems that they would have fortified their ASIO drivers for that reason alone. And I use cubase as well and I am going to get the update to SX 3.0( They only offer the update through the end of this year or you'll have to but the full version for $800). I'm not sure how it will integrate with liquid editions but one would think they improve the stability between their 2 systems. which would of course improve pulsars stability as well.
Ilook forward to more comments and I found a certified Avid' dealer here in town that offers pinnacle, sony and a shitload of other programs and manufactures. I plan to give'em a call and talk shop. I'll report my findings. Hopefully this thread will help future pulsar users that decide to use video editing
Patrick from Austin
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blazesboylan
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I use Vegas for amateur video editing, and also about 1/2 my audio needs. The idea of "professional" package vs. "inexpensive" package is one put forward by companies like Avid, who have huge marketing / brainwashing budgets. I'm sure their software is powerful, but when I used their subsidiary's (Digidesign's) LE software a couple of years ago, I was not impressed. Despite the glitzy marketing.
Apart from Vegas, I use Nuendo. Definitely a "professional" package which seems to be reasonably en vogue these days in the audio world. Vegas blows it out of the water in terms of power, bug-freeness, and especially usability.
I can't comment on the other packages (Pinnacle etc), but hope this helps! $0.02,
Johann
Apart from Vegas, I use Nuendo. Definitely a "professional" package which seems to be reasonably en vogue these days in the audio world. Vegas blows it out of the water in terms of power, bug-freeness, and especially usability.
I can't comment on the other packages (Pinnacle etc), but hope this helps! $0.02,
Johann
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kensuguro
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heya, sorry for the delay.
With the Avid system, or I'd say it's the same with most situations. You just do a mixdown on the video editing machine, and copy the audio file over to the audio machine. Not really the most fasionable solution, but it always works.
If you want to do multitrack stuff, then I wouldn't be sure how you'd sync the material. You might be able to import all the audio files (pre-edit) to the audio machine and then use edl list from the video editing machine to recreate what you've done on the video machine. (the edit points and all) But this is waay too trouble some.
Seeing that some of these other video apps let you use ASIO, I think they're much better solution.
With the Avid system, or I'd say it's the same with most situations. You just do a mixdown on the video editing machine, and copy the audio file over to the audio machine. Not really the most fasionable solution, but it always works.
If you want to do multitrack stuff, then I wouldn't be sure how you'd sync the material. You might be able to import all the audio files (pre-edit) to the audio machine and then use edl list from the video editing machine to recreate what you've done on the video machine. (the edit points and all) But this is waay too trouble some.
Seeing that some of these other video apps let you use ASIO, I think they're much better solution.
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Counterparts
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I'm afraid that you do have to have the picture hosted externally to PlanetZ, then you post a link to it here, in-between 'img' tags. Do you know anybody who could host it for you?patricka6 wrote:
I also tried to put a picture of my studio in this message but was unsuccessful. Someone let me know how. I read the 'how to add images' in the Faq section but don't understand it. I seems like you have to have a web site with the picture on it so there can be a URL link. I don't have one. hope that doesn't mean I can't post my studio pic.
Regarding "Pinnacle", I agree with Spirit - I only ever tried out one of their products (a TV tuner card IIRC) and it simply didn't work, so I took it back.
Royston
I've had a bit of a fiddle around with digital video but in No way professionally . I've only used vegas4 and ulead 6?7? .
I wouldn't try to do vid and aud at the same time ,different head space...vid is INTENSIVE and even on 2.8 p4 with half a gig of ram the processing takes a lot of time while the old machine puffs away . the steps you take are ..capture ,edit ,render and authoring the dvd . vegas4 drops frames over here while capturing so I capture with ulead and then edit in vegas . I cant see why you couldn't do both vid and aud on the same machine as a machine that does good video would do good audio as well .you'd just need a good video card with lots of ram that didn't interfere with your scope cards and a firewire card or port .If you need a fiwi card then look for one with a software bundle ,it'll probably be ulead but it'll have a dvd player,an encoder and an author, mine seems to work but it's pretty easy to screw up [brainwise]
vegas handles audio like acid ...multiple tracks ,pretty intuitive ,and there are lots of transitions ..vidfx and basically everything you'd need plus of course there are heaps of third party plugs .Check out VAAST for info and tutes and free plugs . I've found the SoCal vegas user group over at yahoo to be helpful and active . Oh did I mention hard dives and the friggin breathtakingly huge size of video files . I bought an 80 gig drive cos I thought I'd transfer 5 minidv tapes onto it so there would be 2 archives of fond memories , trouble was it didn't leave any room for any swapping around which you'll be doing so I guess if you are doing anything serious I'd look at a couple of 160 gig drives for the vid .The upside is you'll finally work out what they are talking about in your t.v. dvd and set top box manuals .Good Luck
Cheers
Paul
I wouldn't try to do vid and aud at the same time ,different head space...vid is INTENSIVE and even on 2.8 p4 with half a gig of ram the processing takes a lot of time while the old machine puffs away . the steps you take are ..capture ,edit ,render and authoring the dvd . vegas4 drops frames over here while capturing so I capture with ulead and then edit in vegas . I cant see why you couldn't do both vid and aud on the same machine as a machine that does good video would do good audio as well .you'd just need a good video card with lots of ram that didn't interfere with your scope cards and a firewire card or port .If you need a fiwi card then look for one with a software bundle ,it'll probably be ulead but it'll have a dvd player,an encoder and an author, mine seems to work but it's pretty easy to screw up [brainwise]
vegas handles audio like acid ...multiple tracks ,pretty intuitive ,and there are lots of transitions ..vidfx and basically everything you'd need plus of course there are heaps of third party plugs .Check out VAAST for info and tutes and free plugs . I've found the SoCal vegas user group over at yahoo to be helpful and active . Oh did I mention hard dives and the friggin breathtakingly huge size of video files . I bought an 80 gig drive cos I thought I'd transfer 5 minidv tapes onto it so there would be 2 archives of fond memories , trouble was it didn't leave any room for any swapping around which you'll be doing so I guess if you are doing anything serious I'd look at a couple of 160 gig drives for the vid .The upside is you'll finally work out what they are talking about in your t.v. dvd and set top box manuals .Good Luck
Cheers
Paul
hey Guys I dicided to post the rest of my findings in the 'Tech talks' discussion on the same headding that I origionally crossposted. (I just think it is a better place for it). I have found out alot of info in the last 3 weeks but have been very buisy with work and its hard to get support people on the phone.
I downloaded the Vegas trial eddition and ordered the pinnacle liquid pro 6.0 cd in the mail 2 weeks ago. So after reading this refer to the 'Tech talk" section for more info and copntunued updates and a few new questions reguarding MOBO's and chipsets. I'll keep up with my findings
Thanks alot Patrick From Austin
I downloaded the Vegas trial eddition and ordered the pinnacle liquid pro 6.0 cd in the mail 2 weeks ago. So after reading this refer to the 'Tech talk" section for more info and copntunued updates and a few new questions reguarding MOBO's and chipsets. I'll keep up with my findings
Thanks alot Patrick From Austin