Bombs in London Phaze II
Ok, to get things back on topic, check out <a href="http://www.propagandamatrix.com/article ... m">THIS</a>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: notbobmoog on 2005-07-25 07:42 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: notbobmoog on 2005-07-25 07:42 ]</font>
And <a href="http://www.propagandamatrix.com/shirts.html" >THAT</a> brings it back to basics again
cheers, Tom
cheers, Tom
More stupidity:
http://sundial.thesun.co.uk/article/0,, ... 81,00.html
Witnesses also said armed police approached three women wearing Islamic dress and a boy.
Onlooker Maryam Boujaama, 21, said: "They were just walking down the street and then police all came out and they were like 'Don't move, don't move'.
"They were searching the women and the boy."
Two of the women were reported as middle-aged and a third as 60 or 70. The boy was described as being 13 or 14.
She added: "They went straight to the women and put them against a wall to search them."
The women were then reported to have been driven away with the elderly woman in an ambulance.
http://sundial.thesun.co.uk/article/0,, ... 81,00.html
Witnesses also said armed police approached three women wearing Islamic dress and a boy.
Onlooker Maryam Boujaama, 21, said: "They were just walking down the street and then police all came out and they were like 'Don't move, don't move'.
"They were searching the women and the boy."
Two of the women were reported as middle-aged and a third as 60 or 70. The boy was described as being 13 or 14.
She added: "They went straight to the women and put them against a wall to search them."
The women were then reported to have been driven away with the elderly woman in an ambulance.
Astro - I've seen criticism levelled at these kind of sites because of commercial activity, and it is regrettable. I've mentioned the 'consipiracy theory industry' in previous posts and IMHO it really lets down the real issues. However, it costs money to maintain a site, and people do have to live in order to write.
What other outlet is there for this kind of news? You simply don't get it on mainstream media.
And the commercialism is nothing compared to mainstream news networks
What other outlet is there for this kind of news? You simply don't get it on mainstream media.
And the commercialism is nothing compared to mainstream news networks
A non-commercial link:
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
Here you can download a whole book about that wonderful statesman George Bush Snr, for free.
If you can be bothered, I encourage people to read it.
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
Here you can download a whole book about that wonderful statesman George Bush Snr, for free.
If you can be bothered, I encourage people to read it.
I really do understand your point - and I admit it's almost impossible to distinguish truth from tales on either side of the story - yet financial interests on both sides are hard to be neglected as well.On 2005-07-22 09:40, darkrezin wrote:
... I've mentioned the 'consipiracy theory industry' in previous posts and IMHO it really lets down the real issues. ...
for me a page like the one I quoted is just a variation of the paid politician theme.
no doubt there are honest people among them, but there's a majority working first of all into their own wallets.
possibly it's the unsolvable character of the 'game' that drives me into sarcasm.
could also be that I've lost confidence in (social) human mind completely, but that reads far too pathetic - I don't consider myself a pessimist
yet if I compare the scale of this mess to what's going on environmentally (and also to what we can experience in 'cosmic', philosophical and scientific context), it's hard to take any side serious (regarding their 'motivation').
there is of course something very serious going on ON this planet (and not just because we're facing an obscure catastrophy from whatever origin).
for me personally it helps a lot to see the human race as what it is, ...nothing but mammals
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-07-22 11:35 ]</font>
Yep I know what you mean Tom. However, here's the situation:
profound environmental pollution, over-fishing with 40-mile trawler nets destroying the marine ecosystem, unnatural GM and battery farming techniques, radioactive war in Bosnia (formerly) and Iraq (formerly and right NOW) with depleted uranium ammo, and the funding of corrupt states to perpetuate corruption and suffering of the people in the name of business interests (read as 'maximum efficiency exploitation of local labour resources'), CIA backing terrorists and ruthless dictators... (I could go on forever listing stuff here)
These are just a few things, stuff that you cannot even deny is happening and has happened for a long time. Do you have to be labelled a crazy conspiracy-theory-obsessed lunatic to point out that these destructive things are going on and it has to stop because it's just totally wrong?
All the evidence points to the real axis of evil:
the US and UK...
I know we're all mammals (well actually I'd prefer to describe the scum in power as reptiles...) but IMHO it is not a mammal's instinct to destroy its environment in order to gain more material goods.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-07-22 11:56 ]</font>
profound environmental pollution, over-fishing with 40-mile trawler nets destroying the marine ecosystem, unnatural GM and battery farming techniques, radioactive war in Bosnia (formerly) and Iraq (formerly and right NOW) with depleted uranium ammo, and the funding of corrupt states to perpetuate corruption and suffering of the people in the name of business interests (read as 'maximum efficiency exploitation of local labour resources'), CIA backing terrorists and ruthless dictators... (I could go on forever listing stuff here)
These are just a few things, stuff that you cannot even deny is happening and has happened for a long time. Do you have to be labelled a crazy conspiracy-theory-obsessed lunatic to point out that these destructive things are going on and it has to stop because it's just totally wrong?
All the evidence points to the real axis of evil:
the US and UK...
I know we're all mammals (well actually I'd prefer to describe the scum in power as reptiles...) but IMHO it is not a mammal's instinct to destroy its environment in order to gain more material goods.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-07-22 11:56 ]</font>
sorry, wrong.
man's natural enemies are the one's encouraging the biosphere destruction...
where DO bad ideas(or ideas) come from? sure, you can give psuedo scientific explanations, but you'll be talking sh*t. you(any you, the rhetorical you) don't really know anything about your ideas, you just accept the voices as your own....too many ignorant knowers....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-07-22 13:16 ]</font>
man's natural enemies are the one's encouraging the biosphere destruction...
where DO bad ideas(or ideas) come from? sure, you can give psuedo scientific explanations, but you'll be talking sh*t. you(any you, the rhetorical you) don't really know anything about your ideas, you just accept the voices as your own....too many ignorant knowers....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-07-22 13:16 ]</font>
well, in it's cultural expression the human species usually describes itself as something superior to the rest of the inhabitants of the environment of this small blue ball.
because we have written language, abstract paintings and so on...
yet general (social) behaviour and even more the (not performed) consequences that could be achieved by a certain mental capability do not point in this direction.
there are hordes that follow obscure leaders, in large as in small scale.
they fight territories - not just in a foreign deserts but even more on roads at home.
as with kettle the grass is always greener on the other side - so lets get it, no matter how absurd.
the choice of a partner is the same pattern: she looks for shelter and safety for her future child, he has to get as much females as he can - and becomes real outrageous if someone approaches his 'posession'.
in animal life it is absolutely normal to exploit a territory up to it's limits - no problem, (most of) the next generation simply starves.
a cosmic sidenote: there's a native american fairytale about the relation between snow-shoe rabbits and the sun - interestingly their population changes from almost absence to totally overcrowded with exactly the sun's activity (sun spots maxima/minima)...
and another irony of fate might be the dove as a preferred peace symbol:
it's one of the few animals that actually kills it's opponent if he can't get away quick enough. Killing for peace...
I'm sorry that my english is heavily influenced by tech literature so it's not easy to properly express certain ideas beyond that scope
...but sometimes I have a good laugh by describing (for myself) human activities with the same words normally used in biology literature - that's why it helps to see us as mammals - it's awareness, not arrogance.
As I have confessed in another post I'm no better than anyone else - I DO see (certain types of) immigrants differently today when I watch the news and see people running around like mad klash waving
pardon me, but I've spent some years (probably too much) close to a social 'hot spot' and there simply was a lot of scum in the area (no prejudice - I got enough attention on certain actions).
cheers, Tom
because we have written language, abstract paintings and so on...
yet general (social) behaviour and even more the (not performed) consequences that could be achieved by a certain mental capability do not point in this direction.
there are hordes that follow obscure leaders, in large as in small scale.
they fight territories - not just in a foreign deserts but even more on roads at home.
as with kettle the grass is always greener on the other side - so lets get it, no matter how absurd.
the choice of a partner is the same pattern: she looks for shelter and safety for her future child, he has to get as much females as he can - and becomes real outrageous if someone approaches his 'posession'.
in animal life it is absolutely normal to exploit a territory up to it's limits - no problem, (most of) the next generation simply starves.
a cosmic sidenote: there's a native american fairytale about the relation between snow-shoe rabbits and the sun - interestingly their population changes from almost absence to totally overcrowded with exactly the sun's activity (sun spots maxima/minima)...
and another irony of fate might be the dove as a preferred peace symbol:
it's one of the few animals that actually kills it's opponent if he can't get away quick enough. Killing for peace...
I'm sorry that my english is heavily influenced by tech literature so it's not easy to properly express certain ideas beyond that scope
...but sometimes I have a good laugh by describing (for myself) human activities with the same words normally used in biology literature - that's why it helps to see us as mammals - it's awareness, not arrogance.
As I have confessed in another post I'm no better than anyone else - I DO see (certain types of) immigrants differently today when I watch the news and see people running around like mad klash waving
pardon me, but I've spent some years (probably too much) close to a social 'hot spot' and there simply was a lot of scum in the area (no prejudice - I got enough attention on certain actions).
cheers, Tom
Maybe it's time to recognize that there IS scum around us. And time to understand why these people are turned into scum.
Maybe our system just isn't dynamic enough to include people that are "dumm" , have "different" opinions , mis both hands , or shit out of there ear.
If this system only supports the smart and therefore whelthy people, it's inevitable that scum will form into this kind of system.
What to do ? I think we have to solve this problem at the root.
cheers,
Casper
Maybe our system just isn't dynamic enough to include people that are "dumm" , have "different" opinions , mis both hands , or shit out of there ear.
If this system only supports the smart and therefore whelthy people, it's inevitable that scum will form into this kind of system.
What to do ? I think we have to solve this problem at the root.
cheers,
Casper
you'll hate to read it, but your last sentence is a german invention roughly 70 years old...On 2005-07-23 02:43, Casper wrote:
...
What to do ? I think we have to solve this problem at the root.
and in fact I kind of agree with you regarding the method (in itself) - yet after WW2 one can't be serious to demand it's applicance.
another aspect that makes the 'situation' unsolvable.
you cannot claim the truth because it's your point of view - any other side would demand the same.
that will be probably the opposite, so would you grant them your rights ?
in fact that but I'm on the good side... argument is fueling all conflicts.
if I refuse to follow (say) islamic rules, specially if they are bombed into my head by a handful of wierdos, then I have to accept the same position by a (say) iraqui who doesn't want to be bombed into the american way of life.
regarding 'scum' in my post above you draw the wrong conclusion, which is not your fault as I haven't given any details.
Those people (I referred to) are scum by heritage - it's not about weak or socially oppressed individuals - they even might be from arbitrary origins.
It's those people you look into the eye and immediately know what's going on - if you have some intuition...
They are not a problem at all if evenly spread, but their aggregation is rather unpleasant - there's a certain kind of group dynamic developing then...
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-07-23 03:30 ]</font>
Exactly the central point. Humans do in my opinion have this consciousness aspect, or 'capacity for advanced knowledge, reason and wisdom'. However not many people really use it, instead going for the animalistic tendency (fuck, kill, eat, repeat).On 2005-07-23 03:14, stardust wrote:
If mankind is so bloody special because of the 'consciousness concept', it is 1000% responsible for its impact on biosphere.
In animals it is not such a problem BECAUSE of the relative lack of advanced intelligence. However in humans this intelligence makes the result even worse when animalistic tendencies are pursued. The sheer amount of profit which is possible if you persecute and enslave the population and pollute the planet is massive. The obscenely rich know this, and they do not care about the long term good of the planet, only for their own sick desires.
The challenge of life is to integrate our advanced intelligence into the complex framework of nature and society, and seek to bring about harmony instead of destruction and pillaging. This seems too difficult, or too boring, for humans to do.
However, until things change we will only perpetuate our own suffering.
My point was not one of evolution.. how we got it is not my concern, but us humans seem to have a capacity for knowledge that goes beyond animals. We see this in our culture, our arts, our developed tools and technology. This is not to say that we are better or worse - animals may be much more in tune with the environment due to not having the distractions of our strange consciousness. This extra intelligence we have becomes not only a burden, but a destructive force.. as we maybe think we do not 'need' the natural environment.. living in concrete cities certainly shifts your reality a little.
But pure logic tells me that we must have this form of intelligence for a reason.. there is a purpose to it.
The thing is to use this knowledge in a way which harmonizes with nature and the whole of existence rather than pursuing the obvious things which may be more appealing to the self. Again I understand this is very hard to do especially given the environment in which most of us spend our time.
But pure logic tells me that we must have this form of intelligence for a reason.. there is a purpose to it.
The thing is to use this knowledge in a way which harmonizes with nature and the whole of existence rather than pursuing the obvious things which may be more appealing to the self. Again I understand this is very hard to do especially given the environment in which most of us spend our time.
