Sound font question

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:49 pm

I'm being blown away by these big piano samples but anyway, after downloading a few (that I saw in LHong's post) I'm wondering if this is working as it should.

The samples I downloaded are SoundFont files, and I've got them loaded into sts 5000, and I'm getting sound. But I'm wondering if the soundfont parameters are being properly implemented because I'm not getting too much velocity response. (more like none) The only difference velocity seems to make is in volume. ie, I can't get that mellow tone when you play it softly, it's always this sfortzando maximus sound, played at different volumes. Not sure.. and plus I only get like 8 note polyphony.. So I'm beginning to wonder what this huge sample fuss is all about.. Am I doing something wrong here?

I get like 3 notes on steinway grand, and 6 notes on steinway bright... Talk about uselessness.. wierd wierd.

I would imagine getting like 1 note when I finish downloading the 256MB sample from Paulmartin's post.. Is this why eveyone's into gigasampler?? That thing's not real time is it?

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2001-12-07 19:03 ]

Mo · Post by Mo » Mon Dec 10, 2001 7:12 am

well, how do you imagine a non-realtime sample player...?

junklight · Post by **junklight** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 8:18 am

I have come across soundfonts that work very badly in the STS3000 (I assume the 5000) is the same. They appear to be monophonic or only have a few notes or whatever. They are often big - and poking around in the settings they seem to be setup right.

On the other hand I have other really big soundfonts (converted from AKAI samples) that are jsut the ticket and work perfectly. I really like the piano on the Miraslav Vitous (spelling) series for example.

The upshot of this is I don't think it is the size but something to do with the construction. Big samples ARE worth it - you can really tell the quality- a good multisample can be dammn near the real thing to all intents and purposes.

mark

(one of the ones I had a problem with can be found at:
http://www.trachtman.org/pianosounds/)

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:52 pm

Man, i buyed the Miroslav Vitous Solo Instruments 2 CD, for 1200can$, and i can say WITHOUT ANY REMORSE THAT THIS IS CRAP!

I felt ripped completly, the soundfont i downloaded from internet sound alot better, the program are made like amateurs, even the simplest wav played directly sound COMPLETE CRAP! This is a rip off! But buy this CD! I complained to Miroslav, and go no answer, the booklet don't even tell us how it was recorded. The samples ALL have bad vibrato, are no even synched togheter, impossible to make a chord, bad looping point, weak signal, noise in the background.

This CD was buyed at ilio website. The HOLE cd have 81 instruments, the ONLY useable program on all the cd is a Contrabass, and i had to tweak the program for hours. This is a really bad joke.

Some will not like what i will say, but since Miroslav won't respond and won't rembourse me, i am thinking of selling this CD to the masses at 10$ each to get my cash back. If nobody will want it, well i'll get my revenge by giving it away on some site. I suspect, that way i'll get an answer really fast! Don't you think?

I was SO disapointed! Sorry for being so rude, but i wanted to warn people, this is a fraud!

junklight · Post by **junklight** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:15 pm

One mans turkey is another mans gold...

I must admit I have the string ensembles somewhere and they are OK but they are not always suitable.

I guess its a question of taste - given the price of sample CD's I would suggest you check them out first (I must admit I will often try out a bootleg version before buying - and before we have a flame war I am not advocating this practice - but given the choice is there I AM going to take advantage).

mark

_________________
__________________________________________
junklight - dark experimental electronics
http://www.junklight.com

[ This Message was edited by: junklight on 2001-12-10 15:20 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 4:53 pm

Yeaah.. And this is a very good reason I could never get myself into the sampler field. The CD's cost so much, and there's only a couple of usable samples per puchase.. And they'r SO expensive!

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:24 am

This is what I do: When I make a TV-Jingle or a remix, I bring out the box with 50 sample CD's. Of course they are pirate versions, but If I use any sample, I'll make sure it's free to use and if it's not, I'll buy a licence. SOmetimes buying the CD give the user the right to use the samples. I have no choice but to get pirated CD's because as previous posts say, they might rip you.
Oh well I have a clear conscience and will continue working this way. Am I doing the wrong thing? Let me know! Ciao!

[ This Message was edited by: Air_PoLLo on 2001-12-11 06:26 ]

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:27 am

I have bought 5 CD's over this past year. Thank god I know what I'll be getting!

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:47 am

I am looking to buy the Advanced orchestra collection and yesterday I saw this post(on another forum) about the sounds not being all that great. Some supposedly crackle, some are lo-fi...
Reading these above posts I am concerned with spending a whole lot hard-earned cash on unusable stuff.
I believe Air_Pollo's solution is a good one but we're back to the piracy/cracks debate and I don't want this thread to become another one of those.
But like he said, if I want to use the samples for professional reasons, I can buy a licence...
_________________
Paul R. Martin

I think I may get the hang of this after all!

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2001-12-11 06:51 ]

Sam Mo · Post by **Sam Mo** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:21 pm

I think that the low polyphony with some soundfonts comes from the fact that there are often several soundfiles used to play only one note.
That's why, if the note you play use 4 wav files and the sts polyphony is 16, then you will get only 16/4=4 note polyphony.
I'm not sure about that, just a guess.
I hope you can understand me.

Sam.

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:40 pm

Soundfonts have been a great source of sounds for me these last 2 years. I can give some light regarding that.; It uses only one sample per note, sf2 are just the way EMU compresses/encodes a file. The bit / data chunk of a sf2 sample is basicly the same as a wav. The way it differs from a wav sample is that sf2 are complete sets, with effect setting (sf2.1) and also the keymap/velocity map. I think you can use up to 3 layers for the notes, but note that I'm not 100% sure. Also there are lotsa ppl saying that sf2's are crappy, well theoreticly is not that much different from AKAI. Remember all the EMU-line of synths (exceptions unknown to me) uses the sf2 format, like the known E- series samplers. I like this format and hope it'll grow. There are some great sites offering sf2's , please post them here, I lost my links to them.

Ciao!

I almost forgot: Paulmartin, Adv. orch is great! You'll find it useful, I'm sure!

[ This Message was edited by: Air_PoLLo on 2001-12-11 16:46 ]

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:46 pm

Soundfonts have been a great source of sounds for me these last 2 years. I can give some light regarding that.; It uses only one sample per note, sf2 are just the way EMU compresses/encodes a file. The bit / data chunk of a sf2 sample is basicly the same as a wav. The way it differs from a wav sample is that sf2 are complete sets, with effect setting (sf2.1) and also the keymap/velocity map. I think you can use up to 3 layers for the notes, but note that I'm not 100% sure. Also there are lotsa ppl saying that sf2's are crappy, well theoreticly is not that much different from AKAI. Remember all the EMU-line of synths (exceptions unknown to me) uses the sf2 format, like the known E- series samplers. I like this format and hope it'll grow. There are some great sites offering sf2's , please post them here, I lost my links to them.

Ciao!

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 3:35 am

http://www.thesoundsite.net/sf_uc_dirlist.tml

Try this one. It's really slow and you can only d/l one at a time but they have like 5 Gb of sf2:s!!!!
There is no technical reason for sf2:s to be worsae than anything else but they got a bad reputation cause there were so may crappy ones before. Short samples, 8 bit, and so on.

junklight · Post by **junklight** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:27 am

Yeah - there is no difference between the Soundfonts I have made from AKAI disks and the orignial samples. I like soundfonts 'cos they are a single file - I can scoot stuff I use all the time onto my local hard disk quickly and easily and get the rest of CD's as and when - AKAI stuff comes in lots of pieces and if you shove a few in a directory it can get real messy.

I wouldn't let the first poster put you off Miraslav Vitous stuff - the disks I have are great.

mark

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:56 pm

To make thing clear about Miroslav Vitous, before i buy the Solo Instruments 2 CD, i read alot of review, and all of them were saying that what they tryed was very good, but they tryed the big set like String ensemble which cost 4 times the 1200$ Solo instruments CD i buy. They probably sound very good, but i can assure you the CD i got is real crap... Don't buy that particular CD... Again, maybe other CD are good, but it let me wonder, how come other samples are good, and those sounds like crap? Did he change his way of sampling with each new CD he make? Why are all the sample have bad vibrato and are not even in sync, i meen, a simple major chord is imppossible this way?!

And if the other CD are as good as review say, why in hell the one i buyed is so minable!? I can make the comparaison with program i made myself very easyly, and can even send you guys some! All send 2 vitous program, unchanged, and 2 similar program of the same instruments i made myself, using Pulsar and a good mic, you'll see the HUGE differences by yourself, do we have a deal? And you'll see what i mean by unusable.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 4:51 am

I'm game, Marcus!
Besides, you don't live so far from my place

PS: Ken, check your PM's.

_________________
Paul R. Martin

I think I may get the hang of this after all!

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2001-12-13 04:52 ]

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2001-12-13 04:53 ]

Lugian · Post by **Lugian** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 1:28 pm

To avoid being burned again, you might want to try http://www.primesounds.com. It's a subscription sample library run by Steinberg, costs US$15 per month (for up to 50MB d/l per day) and you can listen to the samples before you download them. I've found some good stuff there.
HTH
Mike

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:03 pm

you can check those samples at ftp://007-production.fr/pub/Samples.exe

This is a self-extracting RAR file.

Try them, a tell me what you think!

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 7:28 pm

Paul, check your PM.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Sat Dec 15, 2001 7:39 am

Marcus, I tried your samples and although they do sound better than the Vitous samples(what's with the violins on note C3?) yours are out of tune by half a tone. Ok, they can be tweaked but I thought I'd at least let you know.