For those concerned, that would be nice to add:
http://www.stopthesealhunt.ca/site/apps ... E&b=453621
Cheers
Please speak for the baby seals
Thanks Nestor for the heads-up. I posted a comment there.
Once I experienced the terrible sight of such baby seal hunting on a documentary. Parent seals desperately jumping off cliffs breaking their necks at the bottom and abandoning their progeny. Some others tried barking and intimidating the hunters, to no use of course. The sight of those men killing the baby seals with some rudimentary sticks till the bodies turned to a bloody mass just felt wrong. And all that blood on the ice...
Here in Spain we have our own plague of so called "cultural" animal torture like bullfighting. Sickening.
Once I experienced the terrible sight of such baby seal hunting on a documentary. Parent seals desperately jumping off cliffs breaking their necks at the bottom and abandoning their progeny. Some others tried barking and intimidating the hunters, to no use of course. The sight of those men killing the baby seals with some rudimentary sticks till the bodies turned to a bloody mass just felt wrong. And all that blood on the ice...
Here in Spain we have our own plague of so called "cultural" animal torture like bullfighting. Sickening.
Thanks for the warm welcome Nestor, you sure know how to make a newcomer feel at home 
. I find your english just as fine, no kidding.
Please don't laugh but I'm onto japanese right now (just 2 weeks), and boy is it hard!
*edit* English is easy (easier than spanish at least) and conveys information fast, I guess that's one reason why it rules the internet.
Sorry for the OT inside de OT I don't want to highjack the thread.
regards
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: miguel on 2006-03-02 15:23 ]</font>
. I find your english just as fine, no kidding.Please don't laugh but I'm onto japanese right now (just 2 weeks), and boy is it hard!
*edit* English is easy (easier than spanish at least) and conveys information fast, I guess that's one reason why it rules the internet.
Sorry for the OT inside de OT I don't want to highjack the thread.
regards
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: miguel on 2006-03-02 15:23 ]</font>
-
Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Don’t worry Miguel! It happens all the time; we can speak of several topics at the same time here, 
at least, this can be done in the Off Topic forum, if you were to do it in the Problem Solving, there you’ll get a good halt from quite a few!
Japanese, how hard!
You could try to have a conversation with Ken Suguro, it is our only Japanese member in the forum, he is friendly and will be happy to interchange a few words with you, sure.
The only thing I know about learning Japanese is that it is very funny for us, Spanish speakers, cos of the "moco" and all this stuff... he...
Good luck with it!
at least, this can be done in the Off Topic forum, if you were to do it in the Problem Solving, there you’ll get a good halt from quite a few!Japanese, how hard!
You could try to have a conversation with Ken Suguro, it is our only Japanese member in the forum, he is friendly and will be happy to interchange a few words with you, sure.
The only thing I know about learning Japanese is that it is very funny for us, Spanish speakers, cos of the "moco" and all this stuff... he...
Good luck with it!
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*
-
next to nothing
- Posts: 2521
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Bergen, Norway
i wonder if the commitment against seal hunting would be so strong if they looked like snails or slimy aliens, not like cute little furry things with big black eyes.
allthough i admit people would probarly not wear slimy snailyish coats.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: piddi on 2006-03-03 05:38 ]</font>
allthough i admit people would probarly not wear slimy snailyish coats.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: piddi on 2006-03-03 05:38 ]</font>
well....I do care about almost every live form on earth. Humans maybe the only ones able to do that.
_________________
{oelung}
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zer on 2006-03-06 02:21 ]</font>
_________________
{oelung}
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zer on 2006-03-06 02:21 ]</font>
-
Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Home By The Sea
On one hand :
If you put a fish or lobster, even a live fish or lobster, on a rope and started whacking it with a bat, (or say, dropped it in boiling water or oil), it's doubtful anyone would care very deeply. Even if you were busking. But if I put a PUPPY in the same place, I would get a very different reaction... Why is that? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is there a spiritual significance to animals, could some said to be 'higher' forms?
On the other :
The cod stocks are down because of overfishing, not because the seals are too plentiful. Fishermen are in deep denial. The seal hunt has an economic importance, in the same way that bullfights in Spain keep some people employed.
If you put a fish or lobster, even a live fish or lobster, on a rope and started whacking it with a bat, (or say, dropped it in boiling water or oil), it's doubtful anyone would care very deeply. Even if you were busking. But if I put a PUPPY in the same place, I would get a very different reaction... Why is that? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is there a spiritual significance to animals, could some said to be 'higher' forms?
On the other :
The cod stocks are down because of overfishing, not because the seals are too plentiful. Fishermen are in deep denial. The seal hunt has an economic importance, in the same way that bullfights in Spain keep some people employed.
Hmm, well, aby seals are cute but so what ? Kangaroos are sort of cute (until you get close to them) and there are massive culls of them all the time just because they compete for feed.
Foxes are also sort of cute, but Tasmania is currently going nuts because it seems like they've got onto the island and now pose a huge danger to the native animals. So everyone wants to kill them.
Cats are cute too, but they do huge damage to Australian wildlife. That goes for domestic cats slaughtering birds (happens where I live all the time), or the even more destructive feral cats. But if I kill a domestic cat I'll be in deep trouble. Killing a feral cat is probably OK.
Cows aren't cute, but millions of them are butchered every year - tasty too. They certainly don't do any harm (excapt for the methane). Maybe one was killed for my leather jacket - is that worse than killing a baby seal for blubber ? Do cows deserve help ?
Lambs are very cute, but I really enjoy rack of lamb and lamb cutlets - best eating in the lambing season. Should they be helped ?
Baby seals are supposedly abundant at the moment, their numbers not in any danger. They're killed for blubber & fur.
I can't really see how baby seals are more important or need special protection. But they are certainly very cute.
Humans are slaughtering animals for various reasons all the time. And we always have.
Foxes are also sort of cute, but Tasmania is currently going nuts because it seems like they've got onto the island and now pose a huge danger to the native animals. So everyone wants to kill them.
Cats are cute too, but they do huge damage to Australian wildlife. That goes for domestic cats slaughtering birds (happens where I live all the time), or the even more destructive feral cats. But if I kill a domestic cat I'll be in deep trouble. Killing a feral cat is probably OK.
Cows aren't cute, but millions of them are butchered every year - tasty too. They certainly don't do any harm (excapt for the methane). Maybe one was killed for my leather jacket - is that worse than killing a baby seal for blubber ? Do cows deserve help ?
Lambs are very cute, but I really enjoy rack of lamb and lamb cutlets - best eating in the lambing season. Should they be helped ?
Baby seals are supposedly abundant at the moment, their numbers not in any danger. They're killed for blubber & fur.
I can't really see how baby seals are more important or need special protection. But they are certainly very cute.
Humans are slaughtering animals for various reasons all the time. And we always have.
-
Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
You’ve mention a few fair points Spirit, but don’t forget that, if an animal is a baby, it has not even spend his life… so his experience has been cut in twice, this is not fair. It doesn’t matter that human beings ARE superior to animals in general, the fact of being superior should be, all on the contrary, a plus for us to be “better” and more “understandable”. You cannot rule nature just because you have the power.
In your country, the problems you are talking about have been created, mainly, because of the abuse of a group of scientists that believed themselves to be very wise with their “apparent” super-knowledge, introducing non local species that destroyed each other.
Every time man tried to be more intelligent than nature, serious disasters happened.
IF WE CHANGE NATURE, NATURE WILL CHANGE US!!!
Said it in other words: if we keep destroying nature, nature will destroy us! You may not believe it right now, but before the end of this decade, you are going to witness the most terrible catastrophes mankind ever when through. This has nothing to do with prophecies, it is also sicience, it is more than obvious that the ABSOLUTE ABUSE we have done to nature, will bring extremely serious consequences.
You may thing that those little animals don’t deserve more pity than other species, that’s right, but then we use some animals to eat in an equilibrium, that’s fine, as things go on naturally. But do you think that the amounts of these killings are natural? Of course not! What people do with caws is neither natural, there is far more meat that what we need to eat, for sure. But there are countries like mine, Argentina, where people eat meat every single day, from the early morning to the night, it is amazing. The body does not need such amount of proteins anyway.
Now, if there are things that are bad, it doesn’t matter how many, this does not justify what is going on with the Seals.
In the other hand, it is not the same to kill a human being than killing a horse. We all feel and know that a human being is naturally more important, because it is a being more evolved than the horse. Well, in the same way, there are animals that are much less important than other animals, and it is a reality in nature. For instance, a mouse is far less important than a horse.
Of course, I consider all animals important, what they feel and experience, even insects, but I am not making this definition, it is made by nature already. It is not a judgment, it is an observation.
I don’t think you need to philosophy about it in any way, there is no need for it, I think that it is enough to just WHATCH those animals, to understand that they are very tender and soft, that they have FEELINGS just like you and me, and that they are quite special.
Call it evolution if you like.
The matter is that behind this killing, there are hidden repercussions that are evident to me, an important unbalance is created. You may think that I am crazy, well… I prefer for you to believe it instead of not telling this to everybody: “the pain generated to those animals is going to be paid by all participants”.
We don’t longer respect human beings around us, how the hell are we supposed anyway, to be careful with those little animals? Everything seems natural today, because we are in big trouble. Human identity is lost and we are searching for ourselves through wrong means like drugs, alcohol, gangs, hatred, racism, xenophobia, and all sort senseless divisions we build up, trying very hard to hold to something… but there is nothing in those things, except enormous deceptions and lots of pain. We don’t longer respect sex, opinion, the elder, father and mother, etc., the world is quite a disaster and is getting worse by the minute.
Not everything can be seen, not everything can be counted and quantized, there are a myriad of natural laws that we are passing by without taken care of them, but they will pay back in a given moment. The entire world is ill, nature is ill. Nature is alive, and it is intelligent, much, much more intelligent than any human being could ever be.
In your country, the problems you are talking about have been created, mainly, because of the abuse of a group of scientists that believed themselves to be very wise with their “apparent” super-knowledge, introducing non local species that destroyed each other.
Every time man tried to be more intelligent than nature, serious disasters happened.
IF WE CHANGE NATURE, NATURE WILL CHANGE US!!!
Said it in other words: if we keep destroying nature, nature will destroy us! You may not believe it right now, but before the end of this decade, you are going to witness the most terrible catastrophes mankind ever when through. This has nothing to do with prophecies, it is also sicience, it is more than obvious that the ABSOLUTE ABUSE we have done to nature, will bring extremely serious consequences.
You may thing that those little animals don’t deserve more pity than other species, that’s right, but then we use some animals to eat in an equilibrium, that’s fine, as things go on naturally. But do you think that the amounts of these killings are natural? Of course not! What people do with caws is neither natural, there is far more meat that what we need to eat, for sure. But there are countries like mine, Argentina, where people eat meat every single day, from the early morning to the night, it is amazing. The body does not need such amount of proteins anyway.
Now, if there are things that are bad, it doesn’t matter how many, this does not justify what is going on with the Seals.
In the other hand, it is not the same to kill a human being than killing a horse. We all feel and know that a human being is naturally more important, because it is a being more evolved than the horse. Well, in the same way, there are animals that are much less important than other animals, and it is a reality in nature. For instance, a mouse is far less important than a horse.
Of course, I consider all animals important, what they feel and experience, even insects, but I am not making this definition, it is made by nature already. It is not a judgment, it is an observation.
I don’t think you need to philosophy about it in any way, there is no need for it, I think that it is enough to just WHATCH those animals, to understand that they are very tender and soft, that they have FEELINGS just like you and me, and that they are quite special.
Call it evolution if you like.
The matter is that behind this killing, there are hidden repercussions that are evident to me, an important unbalance is created. You may think that I am crazy, well… I prefer for you to believe it instead of not telling this to everybody: “the pain generated to those animals is going to be paid by all participants”.
We don’t longer respect human beings around us, how the hell are we supposed anyway, to be careful with those little animals? Everything seems natural today, because we are in big trouble. Human identity is lost and we are searching for ourselves through wrong means like drugs, alcohol, gangs, hatred, racism, xenophobia, and all sort senseless divisions we build up, trying very hard to hold to something… but there is nothing in those things, except enormous deceptions and lots of pain. We don’t longer respect sex, opinion, the elder, father and mother, etc., the world is quite a disaster and is getting worse by the minute.
Not everything can be seen, not everything can be counted and quantized, there are a myriad of natural laws that we are passing by without taken care of them, but they will pay back in a given moment. The entire world is ill, nature is ill. Nature is alive, and it is intelligent, much, much more intelligent than any human being could ever be.
well, some of the animals mentioned before (not the seals) WILL face some amazing experiences during their human determined life under human shelter in agricultural enterprises, in particular chicken, pigs and cows...On 2006-03-04 00:11, Nestor wrote:
..., but don’t forget that, if an animal is a baby, it has not even spend his life… so his experience has been cut in twice, this is not fair. ...
going out on street demonstrations for (exotic) cuties, but not refusing everyday products of which the making included at least a thousand times more torture is ridiculuous to say the least.
It is a matter of fact that only specially adapted people (like the Innuit) can survive on 'animal only based' food.
In all other cases proteine supports and improves, but is never the base of the metabolism.
You will survive without even one mouthful of meat - anywhere in the world.
but even if one accepts agriculture as a tradition and additional meat as a 'historic' luxury: those miserable conditions under which animals are kept are nothing but greed based.
The farmer wants a maximized return for his investment and work, the consumer wants the lowest price for the product.
As it's clear that one will not starve without chops and meatballs and chickenwings, anyone is free to vote by his wallet...
which I suppose (all) those who sign up to pages like IAWF have already done ;
Otherwise it remains an exotic hobby - adventure game imho.
human beings are neither superior nor do they have the 'power'It doesn’t matter that human beings ARE superior to animals in general, the fact of being superior should be, all on the contrary, a plus for us to be “better” and more “understandable”. You cannot rule nature just because you have the power. ...
if ants would organize against us, we wouldn't have a chance in hell - and god beware if they got assistance by a few fellow creatures...
they use chemical and biological weapons since millions of years and haven't signed any UN contracts
cheers, Tom
true enough.
it's unwise to be arrogant and disrespectful about one's neighbors, food, or fellow creatures....
wanton slaughter of a helpless creature is not cool. but wanton slaughter of the ignorant masses is not cool either. people can't even be respectful of those that are directly related(fellow humans), so protesting brutality of seals will likely be meaningless to those who run things. oone must make an effort to be moral in all one's doings to make a change not related to hypocracy.....(i know you make the effort Nestor...)
it's not about cute. it's about respect, self and other. with respectful actions comes a hard, but beautiful world. disrespect brings agony and destruction....enjoy your mad cow burger and the last of the mercury poisoned fish.
it's unwise to be arrogant and disrespectful about one's neighbors, food, or fellow creatures....
wanton slaughter of a helpless creature is not cool. but wanton slaughter of the ignorant masses is not cool either. people can't even be respectful of those that are directly related(fellow humans), so protesting brutality of seals will likely be meaningless to those who run things. oone must make an effort to be moral in all one's doings to make a change not related to hypocracy.....(i know you make the effort Nestor...)
it's not about cute. it's about respect, self and other. with respectful actions comes a hard, but beautiful world. disrespect brings agony and destruction....enjoy your mad cow burger and the last of the mercury poisoned fish.
-
Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
How interesting and deep are your comments guys, you make me rethink many points that are so true.
I wonder what is going to happen with us and the world in this way… We have already a hollow earth so much extraction of raw materials we take from it. Here in Chile the extraction of copper is so intense that there are immense wholes and entire areas are a big mess of pollution and explosions, kilometres and kilometres of it. Spain, France and some other European countries have extracted millions of litters of mineral water. We have made more than 100.000 subterranean experiments with the atomic bomb and many more experiments with chemical weapons in retired places. Not to mansion the mammoth extraction of oil, this is beyond our imagination. All this is coming back from nature, and the earth is ill and needs to vomit soon. One of those experiments include 45.000 soldiers killed in Russia, a few decades ago, both to get read of them because communists at that time didn’t have any goods left, as they were going through a terrible misery, and to try the bomb as an experiment with real human beings. I sow the video of this tragedy myself; it is in black and white.
I see everyday in the news titles like:
“The government is planning to put some restrictions on alcohol to stop the youngster to drink so much”.
“To stop violence in nightclubs, the police department has deployed 1000 more policemen from 10PM to 3AM Fridays and Saturdays”.
“Negligence in hospitals has increased in a 12% since 1999, so to stop it, doctors will have to fill a form every day, before living”.
“A new law has been approved by the senate, to stop family violence”.
To my understanding, the problem is not alcohol, nightclubs, illness itself, or violence, that HUMAN BEINGS. I mean, it seems that nobody is saying: “hey, what is going on with us?” Because this is the right question to pose, we don’t need more laws, more complicated ways of living. For instance, in Glasgow Caledonian University, because the security guards did not his job completely, they put somebody to supervise them, and then a machine in every single window of the university, so they had to go and disconnect those machines one by one, to deactivate an alarm that, otherwise, would sound at a given moment. The problem to me is the luck of responsibility of those guys, just an example. Well, in the same way, I don’t think we need more complications in the way we live, we only need to find out what is getting us into being so weird and egoist with each other.
I wonder what is going to happen with us and the world in this way… We have already a hollow earth so much extraction of raw materials we take from it. Here in Chile the extraction of copper is so intense that there are immense wholes and entire areas are a big mess of pollution and explosions, kilometres and kilometres of it. Spain, France and some other European countries have extracted millions of litters of mineral water. We have made more than 100.000 subterranean experiments with the atomic bomb and many more experiments with chemical weapons in retired places. Not to mansion the mammoth extraction of oil, this is beyond our imagination. All this is coming back from nature, and the earth is ill and needs to vomit soon. One of those experiments include 45.000 soldiers killed in Russia, a few decades ago, both to get read of them because communists at that time didn’t have any goods left, as they were going through a terrible misery, and to try the bomb as an experiment with real human beings. I sow the video of this tragedy myself; it is in black and white.
I see everyday in the news titles like:
“The government is planning to put some restrictions on alcohol to stop the youngster to drink so much”.
“To stop violence in nightclubs, the police department has deployed 1000 more policemen from 10PM to 3AM Fridays and Saturdays”.
“Negligence in hospitals has increased in a 12% since 1999, so to stop it, doctors will have to fill a form every day, before living”.
“A new law has been approved by the senate, to stop family violence”.
To my understanding, the problem is not alcohol, nightclubs, illness itself, or violence, that HUMAN BEINGS. I mean, it seems that nobody is saying: “hey, what is going on with us?” Because this is the right question to pose, we don’t need more laws, more complicated ways of living. For instance, in Glasgow Caledonian University, because the security guards did not his job completely, they put somebody to supervise them, and then a machine in every single window of the university, so they had to go and disconnect those machines one by one, to deactivate an alarm that, otherwise, would sound at a given moment. The problem to me is the luck of responsibility of those guys, just an example. Well, in the same way, I don’t think we need more complications in the way we live, we only need to find out what is getting us into being so weird and egoist with each other.