Unexpected DSP Overload

petal · Post by **petal** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:54 am

I must have spent €2500+ on my Creamware system and have 24 DSP's and I still get this God Damn annoying message when I hit about half the load on my DSP's!

Jesus fucking christ! I thought one was supposed to be able cascade these cards!
I have tried to rearrange the cards, used 1 and 2 TDSM-cables, edit the cset-file etc. and still this shit doesn't work as expected.

I have spent countless hours on finetrimming this and errorcorrecting that and still my Creamware based system is giving me trouble because of small quirks, small "not supposed to be there" noises, etc etc.

And now this - I now have enough DSP's to call this system almost professional if it wasn't because only half is really available!

All though I have just spent another €500 on software for this system I keep finding my self asking: what is the alternative to Creamware, what can I buy instead to avoid these technical issues that keeps confronting me because I insist on wanting my Creamware system to be worth all the money I have thrown in that direction.

Sorry for the rant, I know this isn't constructive, but I feel that I really have tried - oh how I have tried.....

Thomas

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2006-03-11 10:05 ]

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:00 am

do you have the dsp overload message using some particular device ?

I've had the same problem when loading the minimax and i've solved it with the minimax update http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=10&3

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:31 pm

i downloaded it and i think it is better with minimax.
one qestion.
ms-dos patch file.
i just double clicked and pressed any key as it says.
after i put the files and replaced the older ones.
is that ok?

ps

yes........ i had this dilema much times about replacing the creamware system that i have.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUnfortunatellyAAAAAAAAA

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:10 pm

I feel weird, I never get that problem. I have a 15+3 setup, and I routinely push it to the limits (95%+). I can load Minimax and set it to 16 voices without issues.

It seems like you are trying to load a device across several cards though. I thought if you told it to re-arrange/optimize the project. If that doesn't work, it might be an STDM cable issue of some sort. Or, if you have a first gen Pulsar1, try taking it out of the system.

As for an alternative? I dunno. If you are VST-only type of person, I'd say UAD/PoCo, though of course it's a bit more limited synthesis-wise. You can also go with the 4000 Euros Mykerinos DSP cards. I think they do 400MFLOPs? Or maybe 800MFLOPs. The Scope cards does 2700MFLOPs. Or Protools|HD, at like 6000 Euros for something like 1800MFLOPs, with plugins sometimes costing as much as 800 eurios.

Even then you won't get the routing.

So no, there's no real alternative yet =P People are moving that way slowly, but it'll take a while yet.

petal · Post by **petal** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:27 pm

ok, it looks like the link that djmicron suggested solved my problem for now - thank you very much for that!

I have three 2. generation Creamware cards. 1 Luna II, 1 XTC and 1 SCOPE: all running on one STDM-cable only beacause of another issue I had when running in XTC-mode...

I know there aren't any real alternative to Creamware - If I ever were to abandon her, I would go strictly VST for so many reasons, one would be mobility (which is becoming an issue to me) another is the convinience of automation in the VST-environment, it just isn't the same the way automation works with Creamware.

There are two things keeping me from jumping of the train at this point, 1. I have invested a substantial amount of money in my Creamware-system and I would hate to see it all go to waste, 2. when it works without problems it does sound better than anything else I have available here.

I would really love this system to work, cause it does have a nice sound, and I do like the flexibility of the scope environment, but all these problems and issues that just keeps popping up makes this bitch hard to love - Cause she is a bitch and we all know it.

Please Creamware make millions on your ASB's and start sending us real upgrades both hardware and software, in our direction, cause we have all so dearly earnt a real bugfixing upgrade!

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2006-03-11 13:36 ]

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:42 pm

On 2006-03-11 12:31, ARCADIOS wrote:
i downloaded it and i think it is better with minimax.
one qestion.
ms-dos patch file.
i just double clicked and pressed any key as it says.
after i put the files and replaced the older ones.
is that ok?

ps

yes........ i had this dilema much times about replacing the creamware system that i have.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUnfortunatellyAAAAAAAAA

yes,
the best way is to replace the files manually.

petal · Post by **petal** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:07 pm

Or maybe I'm the bitch?

I get confused...

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:46 am

using the minimax update by the dos installer, there is a predefined directory, so, if you have scope in a different directory it does not work and the manual installation of scripts and dsp is what to do.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:10 pm

symbiote

what is your pc system and what kind of configuration have you done?
it seems you are very lucky to work in such a stable environment.
or is it that you only work in 44.1 khz?

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:57 pm

Yes, I only work in 44.1khz. None of the material I use/record has much of anything at all above 22khz, so using a higher sampling rate than that is still a bit useless for me.

I guess it's pretty clear to me that SFP isn't quite 96khz ready yet and hasn't for years, so if you use that, no wonder you have problems. You will have to map out by hand which devices are loadable without problems and which cause problems.

Post by **garyb** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:10 pm

one thing's for sure, cwa always used to say that minimax is not 96khz compatible.....

at 96khz, if minimax is loaded onto a luna card, the chances are about 99.999999999% that the device will have to span two cards(the luna and whatever else is with it), a big no-no...

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-03-12 15:12 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:27 pm

the Minimax is very, very likely to have that 'DSP overload' problem - I've experienced that error message only a couple of times over the years, but adding Minimax (to an almost 'DSP-loadfree' project) has a somewhat 30% probability to fail.

Yet it doesn't bother me because after confirmation of the box everything is fine (2 Pulsar Ones and Win98 btw) - I blamed it to my old cards, haven't tried the patch yet.

cheers, Tom

t_tangent · Post by **t_tangent** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:01 am

Regarding that Minimax Update. While it has fixed a couple of issues such as saving midi cc's for switches in the preset file, and reducing dsp overload errors, the update introduces a bug that also appears in ProTone but not Pro One. In the Minimax update, and ProTone, if I go to the Add page, in the delay section when I turn BPM On, then try to click on the delay length drop down list, I get an Exception error {nil reference on left side of '.' as a result of expression "goBorder"}
As I say, this also happens in the delay section of ProTone device, but not the earlier version Pro One, and the fix for the ProTone bug was to just use Pro One instead, as they are essentially identical devices apart from the logo, but obviously for Minimax I need to use the update which fixes those more annoying bugs, so the only workaround is to set the delay time in milliseconds, which doesnt take too much more working out. Its only a small niggle really, but I just thought that I would mention it, and if someone else could verify this if they are getting the same error, and any possible fix if at all.

Cheers

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:00 pm

My fix for MiniMax is usually to switch to 48KHz and back again. It almost always works! So that update fixes the errors (mostly)? I should check it out.

Shayne

t_tangent · Post by **t_tangent** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:21 pm

Hi Shayne

Did you mean that your method of changing to 48khz and back fixes the dsp overload error. Just wanted to clarify you meant that, as at first I thought you were referring to the BPM delay error bug I mentioned, and having tried switching to 48khz and back I still had this error.. Any ideas on this delay bug?

Thanks

Post by **garyb** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:01 pm

no problems here at 44.1k and 48khz. the minimax doesn't work well at 96khz.(didn't check the bpm problem, but i'll bet that's an actual bug...)

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:36 pm

I've had the BPM delay issue in proTone also, haven't tried it in MiniMax. It's never been a problem to me as I already have to many delay units available, and I tend to record synth outputs dry without any effects.

As for the MiniMax, it works fine here at 96kHz, in a mostly empty project. I can get it to work at up to 6 voices, then it dies off in a crash of flame at 7 and up. But it works. I can imagine how it'd not-work in a mostly full project though. Do I have a weird system?

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:43 pm

no, at 96khz 6 voices will take up what, 5 dsps at least? minimax can't span chips on multiple boards, so i'm not surprised by funny behavior at that sample rate.

Booster · Post by **Booster** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:56 am

On 2006-03-13 02:01, t_tangent wrote:
Regarding that Minimax Update. While it has fixed a couple of issues such as saving midi cc's for switches in the preset file, and reducing dsp overload errors, the update introduces a bug that also appears in ProTone but not Pro One. In the Minimax update, and ProTone, if I go to the Add page, in the delay section when I turn BPM On, then try to click on the delay length drop down list, I get an Exception error {nil reference on left side of '.' as a result of expression "goBorder"}
As I say, this also happens in the delay section of ProTone device, but not the earlier version Pro One, and the fix for the ProTone bug was to just use Pro One instead, as they are essentially identical devices apart from the logo, but obviously for Minimax I need to use the update which fixes those more annoying bugs, so the only workaround is to set the delay time in milliseconds, which doesnt take too much more working out. Its only a small niggle really, but I just thought that I would mention it, and if someone else could verify this if they are getting the same error, and any possible fix if at all.

Cheers

The ProTone bug already excists in the original device and has nothing to do with the Minimax Update. Unfortunately you are right that this same annoying bug is introduced to the Minimax with the Update. If you keep the original Minimax device in your synth folder and rename it to Minimax Original.dev or so, you'll have the choice of opening one or the other. Maybe a helpful workaround when you need to ajust the Delay in your preset to a BMP value. Just open the original Minimax device, set your value and save the preset.