Upgrade to Cubase 4?

cju198 · Post by **cju198** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:39 am

Hi

Im just interested to hear about any experiences with upgrading to Cubase 4.

Im still on Cubase VST 5.0, which works absolutely flawlessly with XP SP2, in SCOPE (v4) and XTC modes. I prefer to use XTC as its less time consuming, but for some synths I have to use the SCOPE mode (anyone been able to get the vocodizer working in XTC mode??)

So I was thinking of upgrading to V4, but what are the benefits? I dont think Ill be able to record in 32bit in XTC mode , maybe in SFP mode?

Does all the XTC functionality work in v4 even? I dont want to break something that works fine right now!!

Any advice would be very welcome!

Chris

www.moonrocksrecords.com

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:09 am

My advice is leave it alone. i loved VST5 and would have stayed there except my Mac died. i tried SX3 on the PC and it's useless. i have lost all faith in Steinberg doing anything useful for the end user in future and they will not be getting any more of my cash - i'm getting Samplitude now. If you 'upgrade' (and that's definitely in inverted commas) you'll just open yourself to a whole new set of bugs and arcane working methods. Stick with VST5.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:29 am

if it works for you as you describe (e.g. you don't miss anything fundamental...), you might try the version 4 in a parallel installation, but under no circumstances I would do a complete 'switch'.

Even if I don't use Cubase, I don't see much evidence why it should have a different developement 'path' than any other software.
'Upgrades' are (in the first place) a marketing tool for a company to stay in business. They rarely consider productivity and workflow, but add tons of bells and whistles, increase complexity and introduce new bugs.
This statement is certainly not correct in every single case, but it's the bottomline of my 'software experience' over the last 2 decades - it's a personal viewpoint you may take into account, it's no dogma, though

It is important to process in 32bit, or 40 or even 80 - it is nonsense to record in that resolution, if it demands extra efforts.
Even in 16 bits you can tell the difference between 2 preamps, but you cannot tell the difference between a 24 and a 32 bit record of the same amp...

in comparison specific records are often (undeniably) perceived as 'better', but a thorough examination of the setup will reveal that preconditions were not identical in those cases.
You cannot tell that it's 0.5db louder, instead you will hear it as more transparent, more deep, punchy, crisp or whatever...

my 2 cents, Tom

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:41 am

Tom and Chris have covered all the reasons to be cautious, and it is excellent advice.
One thing to note about CB4 on PC, they have stripped out all DirectX support. If you have any DX stuff you use, you won't be able to and if you did in older projects they won't open in CB4.

Plus the whole lack of support with SX3 makes me thing you might want to pass on a Steinberg product.

Good luck whatever you choose.

CH

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:04 am

Mr Arkadin wrote:My advice is leave it alone. i loved VST5 and would have stayed there except my Mac died. i tried SX3 on the PC and it's useless. i have lost all faith in Steinberg doing anything useful for the end user in future and they will not be getting any more of my cash - i'm getting Samplitude now. If you 'upgrade' (and that's definitely in inverted commas) you'll just open yourself to a whole new set of bugs and arcane working methods. Stick with VST5.

what do you find "useless" about it?
I'm using SX2 and find it pretty good (although I'm considering switching to Ableton because it suits my working style better)

I do know that Cubase 4 as it is now is quite buggy and unstable. There's a LOT of complaining on the steinberg forum about bugs and badly implemented features (and lack of new features that users wanted). There should be an update "soon" so hopefully that will improve things a bit.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:46 am

as to the dx stuff, there's a wrapper, or will be soon, not a big deal. i like sx3(using it now), and c4 looks very similar, i'm sure it's fine and i'm sure it has the same ratio of bugs to features as the rest of them. there'll be an update soon. as to the end of sx3 developement, that's standard practice in the corporate software world, ever noticed that yamaha is the owner?

all that is moot if vst5 has all the features you need and does everything in a way that is satisfactory(brings satisfaction) to you. if you don't need the new features, why bother? this lemming's urge to upgrades is what has made the computer business what it is today............

*edit* went to google, typed in "dx to vst wrapper" and immediately found this cool thing. it's free too...
http://www.acondigital.com/us_EffectChainer.html

Herr Voigt · Post by **Herr Voigt** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Go to www.cubase.de and watch the discussions in the forums about c4. When you have studied this, you'll decide to stick on vst5.
I'm sure I'll wait for a version (I use sl 3.1) which is not so full of bugs.

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:01 pm

garyb wrote: as to the end of sx3 developement, that's standard practice in the corporate software world, ever noticed that yamaha is the owner?

Of course, the difference is Steiny promised it's users several times that a fix for some glaring bugs was coming. Promised.
Then at the 11th hour decided to pull all support and leave users hanging.

When a company goes on the record and promises users it will deliver, it better deliver.

When it thumbs it's noses at them so it cam make a 64 bit version of C4/Nuendo AFTER it has repeatedly made promisses and assurances that they would look after them , well thats just not cool.
Be one thing if they were the only game in town but they are not. There are several others who don't dump on their users like that.
Yamaha has had a long history of dumping on users. Them buying Steinberg was a death sentence if you ask me.

If they are not going to deliver, they should keep quiet. Yamaha at least never promisses you anything, thus disapointment is stiffled. Thats the difference.
This fiasco has brought Steinberg public opinion to an all time low.

CH

Post by **garyb** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:02 pm

same thing apple did with logic after buying emagic. yamaha execs certainly feel no responsiblility for the previous regime, as i said, standard corporate behavior, especially for software. i'm not saying no one has a beef with steinberg, but it's a japanese corporation now....as to glaring bugs, i don't doubt they exist, but for what most use the sequencer for, sx3 is very solid.

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:19 pm

garyb wrote:, but for what most use the sequencer for, sx3 is very solid.

Well, "most" is a pretty unfounded term, I'm sure there was no survey of every SX3 owner. As for solid, that is totally subjective to the user and system and tasks they need it to do. If the situation was as minor as you seem to want to make it out to be, there would be little conversation about on their forums and others around the net, including planetz.
This too will pass, as they say. I won't be upgrading Nuendo again. There are bugs in that they have not managed to fix since version 1.0.
Steinberg has lost my confidence I'm afraid.
I have since moved on and won't be looking back.

The "VST" line was excellent . Moving to C4 would be moving down IMO from a stability standpoint.
The more features are added in ,the more stability seems to leave.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:49 pm

King of Snake wrote:what do you find "useless" about it?

Sorry i meant in relation to VST5. i just find SX3 to do really simple things as complicated as they can make it, whereas VST5 was simple. For me they seemed to destroy a lot of the fun and intuitive stuff and add a lot of crap, plus it got all dark grey. The way VST instruments is implemented is laughable - Samplitude for instance does it better and Steint invented VST instruments ffs! i have no confidence in them, and i've felt like that since before SX, i was one of those fools who bought a Midex (luckily not the big one) for all the LTB bollocks that's never been supported.

Plus i've been hanging out in the Samplitude forum and even if i don't get it, i can see that it's a friendly and responsive community - and the developers actually have a voice there, rather than some idiot telling you you're wrong and should embrace Cubase4 and that you're a 'valued' customer.

PS. craighuddy, who's Chris? Me Tony

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:55 am

I own and I'm able to use well SX3, I think it's a nice software, but do you want to know something?

I still load VST32 to work, faster, easier, better workflow.

As long as you use Scope and use separate busses from Cubase you don't need anything else, you already have better routing, better sound and much better plugins.

cju198 · Post by **cju198** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:32 am

Good responses, thanks for all the advice. I think I'll stick with VST 5!

There just doesn't seem enough to justify changing, and all the problems that it will most likely cause..plus I'll probably have to get a new PC in order to take advantage of all this 'improved functionality'

I'll spend the money on a new mic instead!!
Thanks,
Chris

www.moonrocksrecords.com

valis · Post by **valis** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:12 am

craighuddy wrote: If they are not going to deliver, they should keep quiet. Yamaha at least never promisses you anything, thus disapointment is stiffled. Thats the difference.
This fiasco has brought Steinberg public opinion to an all time low.

CH

That's not true actually (in regards to Yamaha never promising anything.) Ask 01x owners or anyone that has attempted to buy into "MLAN" in the last 8 years or so.

Also I think that the promises about the 'next' sx3/n3 upgrades were issued with Yamaha was in control of Steiny...

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:16 am

Mr Arkadin wrote:
PS. craighuddy, who's Chris? Me Tony

Sorry Tony!,

My bad, but good advice just the same

CH

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:19 am

valis wrote:
craighuddy wrote: If they are not going to deliver, they should keep quiet. Yamaha at least never promisses you anything, thus disapointment is stiffled. Thats the difference.
This fiasco has brought Steinberg public opinion to an all time low.

CH
That's not true actually (in regards to Yamaha never promising anything.) Ask 01x owners or anyone that has attempted to buy into "MLAN" in the last 8 years or so.

Also I think that the promises about the 'next' sx3/n3 upgrades were issued with Yamaha was in control of Steiny...

OK, again I stand corrected, Yamaha support sucks large.
I feel bad Steiny sold out to them.

CH

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:20 am

There is a good crossgrade deal for switching to Samplitude right now.
You might consider this option and get out of the political situation

Good luck,

Greg

arela · Post by **arela** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:01 pm

Everybody is complaining over Cubase4. I have to say i start liking it

.
Nice VSTi's (yes, i think so...) and good VST fxs.
Was it worth the upgrade? - it depends, but no use to regret anyhow.
In fact i could love it if the next upgrade solve the unstability that occurs sometimes.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:00 pm

In fact i could love it if the next upgrade solve the unstability that occurs sometimes.

That'll be Cubase 5 then. Oh, but then there'll be new bugs so you'll ahve to wait till version 6 and then...

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:33 pm

siriusbliss wrote:There is a good crossgrade deal for switching to Samplitude right now.
You might consider this option and get out of the political situation

Good luck,

Greg

I think they all have great crossgrades for Steiny users right now

I jumped on the Sonar bus. Glad I did. There are some things I miss about CB, but Sonar has added a tonne of things to my palate I never even contemplated before.

CH