The original A16

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:43 am

I didn't have to unsolder anything to be able to cut the fan. So ofcoarse you can open the thing (slightly anyway) without a soldering iron. Without the fan, this might be an ok idea. With the fan ... I can't say.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:55 am

thanks for helping to overcome my memory flaws, Immanuel ...
it was probably under the impression of the hazzle to get to the regulation board in the basement...

cheers, Tom

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:43 am

Wow

thats quiet astroman
thanks guys for all your feedback it is appreciated. It seems the best thing if you use the elder A16 is to rack it upside down in the top rack with the fan on or off depending on the individual's personal tolerance for noise. If the case wasnt so much to take apart maybe the internal fan could be replaced by one of the quiet fans like antec sell's for pc cases.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:22 pm

well, there's another option... hardcore DIY

get a 1k or so rpm large diameter fan and put it in a thing that gets smaller towards one end, dunno the name - such stuff is used in room climate installation or to dispose rain from roofs - check the local DIY market...
Connect a flexible hose that has a rectangular opening glued to it's other end.
Fix that end to the left opening of the A16 and mount the fan so it sucks air from the A16. This should produce a strong airflow at low noise... and will look either spacey or completely idiotic

cheers, Tom
...yes, I like my current place a lot after years at a corner opposite a busstop and a school

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Thu May 10, 2007 12:46 am

That's hardcore indeed!!

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Thu May 10, 2007 6:22 am

astroman wrote:well, there's another option... hardcore DIY

That's not hardcore

Hardcore is placing it upside down and cut a hole above the big internal heat sink. After that, you can add a 80mm fan above that hole. Should take care of any heat issues

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Thu May 10, 2007 10:05 am

I stand corrected, Immanuel

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:09 pm

In the ultra model is heat an issue?

Post by **garyb** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:27 pm

no, i does get warm, but it's not a problem. actually, on the old A16 heat's not a problem, either. it's the fan. the Ultra version has no fan.

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:16 pm

is the fan just in the wrong place or just doesn't circulate enough air or.....?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:00 am

the fan is correctly placed, as the side of the case is the only location in a rack guaranteed to have at least some space around it. The airflow is divided by the main circuit board into an upper and a lower half, which is also ok.

But of course (due to the low height) there are some obstacles in the airflow, in particular big capacitors in the lower half between regulation and main board.
Since the height of the case limits the diameter of the fan, it's rotation speed defines the amount of air moved - that's what makes it kind of noisy (in quiet environments) - I don't think you could notice it together with a couple of 10k rpm disks in your DAW...

As Gary said, it's NOT a 'true' problem - maybe I focussed a bit too much on what's important for my personal use.

The old A16 is said to have been very(!) expensive in production - so one might assume quality parts inside, which makes it stil a good choice today imho.
But you cannot deny it's age, a certain risk in buying a 2nd hand unit (untested) is unavoidable.

cheers, Tom

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:04 am

the A16 modding thread

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:07 pm

ali · Post by **ali** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:01 am

agreed with Tom on age and 2nd hand A16 . these are hard to repair nowadays.

However the old A16 has a fan and if the fan dies you can always open the case and replace the fan with another one. I did this many times. Simply cut the 2 cords and mounte a new one internaly or even externaly.

another thing. It is advisable not to sandwish the old A16 between 2 units that will add more heat to it. the old A16 may get hot and it certainly does not need to be heated by other products.

the New A16 U however does not have a fan.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:55 am

since I 'serviced' my A16 successfully yesterday (long overdue), I can only agree with Ali.
At first glance it looks totally easy to handle, as it's from the 'handcrafted-non-smd-era', but to judge a book by the cover is known to be very insecure...

as is this box - no big deal that it's double layer, but the interconnection 'rivets' are so damn tiny that extreme care is necessary on unsoldering parts.
I had to replace one cap (easy to find as the specific channel was the only one with faint hum), but the rivet broke and came out with the defective part... oops.
No problem to bridge it, but it looks ugly and I really wouldn't want that on several channels.

I consider only one truely damaged cap a fairly good result - but the solder of the unit clearly showed aging. Re-soldering it brought all channels back to an (almost perfectly) even noisefloor.

cheers, Tom

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:03 am

Funny, I just reopened mine today to have another look at it. I am not an electronic engineer, but this thing does give me the WoW feeling, when I look inside. The layout looks very neat ... and efficient. It is dense! The only thing you need to unsolder to get everything out is the word clock i/o. I didn't do this though. But unscrewing the jack rings (that sentence just doesn't look good - sorry about that

), I got the main board tilted a bit, so I could get the heat sink and related stuff out to look at it. Between the box and the heat sink, there is some "lotion" which reminds me a lot of heat paste (like you put between your cpu and the cooler for better heat transfer) - which it probably is. What an amasing attention to detail. For a moment I even thought of putting it all in a 2U box turned around the right way and maybe even replacing the jacks with XLRs. Well, it was a nice thought, but I have other financial priorities at the moment. After all, the unit works flawlessly.

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:47 pm

its really interesting that the ultra doesnt have a fan, does it have a different layout inside than the the original that handles internal heat better?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue May 22, 2007 12:53 am

of course it has - there have been quite some improvements with power-regulators over the years. Here are some examples (though for regular PC use) that operate at an efficiency rate of more than 90%, in other words not even heat sinks are required
http://www.logicsupply.com/index.php/cPath/40

the design of the A16 ultra is most likely similiar, but 10 years ago such parts simply weren't available - so CW used the 'classic' regulation design which includes heavy regulation loss in form of heat.
To bring it to the point: only the power regulation of the non-ultra produces heat.

To replace the original with a contemporary design is not that easy without a circuit diagram, as the unit seems to have several ground levels and individual supplies for different sections.
Messing something up offers a fair chance to let the board go up in smoke - not literally, but physical

cheers, Tom

Conqueror's Reign · Post by **Conqueror's Reign** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:06 pm

understood astroman, dont mess with a good thing!

Reading all this info given about the A16 i can see how immanuel gets the Wow feeling this interface when it was first introduced must have been way ahead of its time and its still standing. That truly is quality.