Is Void as much of a card hog on your system?
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Mike Goodwin
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Is Void as much of a card hog on your system?
Wow so I downloaded the demo for Void as I thought I would try it out wile it was still on sale. Assuming that this thing is running correctly on my system I have to say that I could not make it through more than two presets before I would have to reboot my card due to running out of power! I have a project card and feel that I should be able to run two notes of this thing. Is my copy "broken"?
Re: Is Void as much of a card hog on your system?
that's most likely a side-effect if the preset holds the polyphony - in other words if the maker of the preset had lots of DSPs and lots of voices (say 6 to 10) active, then the preset will try to allocate the DSPs required for that amount of polyphony - and most likely fail on a 6 DSP project board.Mike Goodwin wrote:... I could not make it through more than two presets before I would have to reboot my card due to running out of power!
In that case (after the DSP overload error occured) you set the polyphony to a lower value, and simply reset the board by chaning the sample rate (or switch it from master to slave and back). It's handy to keep the Sample rate dialog open for this purpose.
Most presets are for one voice by default and the user sets his preferred number of voices and then saves the preset.
This is nothing unusual as a Scope synth 'voice' can be extremely complex.
I once calculated it for the Zarg Solaris, where you have 2 oscillator and 2 filter sections, but each section can have up to 10 (or so) different oscillators active simultaneously.
That means a mono voice might contain the same number of processing elements as a VST synth set to 20 notes polyphony.
cheers, Tom
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Mr Arkadin
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Mike Goodwin
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Thanks for the feedback. From what I can tell it defaults to 2 notes per patch. And I gotta say that if I cant even get 2 notes out of six dsp's then I'm not interested. Even if I did have a larger card. From what I heard (very little mind you) it did not sound better than the minimax or PRO12 for example. Just me though.
Re: Is Void as much of a card hog on your system?
i cant find demo anywhere ???Mike Goodwin wrote:Wow so I downloaded the demo for Void as I thought I would try it out wile it was still on sale. Assuming that this thing is running correctly on my system I have to say that I could not make it through more than two presets before I would have to reboot my card due to running out of power! I have a project card and feel that I should be able to run two notes of this thing. Is my copy "broken"?
Brotha' Man Mike,
I am sicker than most, but Solaris w/ 8 voices of Poly is better than sex.
I use to feel the way you do, and also bought into the SFP thing w/ a meger Project card. I became angry, but bought another. Then I was really pissed off that I didn't buy a Pro board. But once I bought one of them, and starting messing w/ big poly counts, I soon realised the incredible sound when playing my usual 4 and 5 note clusters, with low notes, and left hand octaves.
Face it,..your fucked, and must keep buying.
Save yourself the trouble though, as our feelings were similar. Don't make the mistake of buying 2 Project cards.
Jump in for the big wim,....get some pros.
I am sicker than most, but Solaris w/ 8 voices of Poly is better than sex.
I use to feel the way you do, and also bought into the SFP thing w/ a meger Project card. I became angry, but bought another. Then I was really pissed off that I didn't buy a Pro board. But once I bought one of them, and starting messing w/ big poly counts, I soon realised the incredible sound when playing my usual 4 and 5 note clusters, with low notes, and left hand octaves.
Face it,..your fucked, and must keep buying.
Save yourself the trouble though, as our feelings were similar. Don't make the mistake of buying 2 Project cards.
Jump in for the big wim,....get some pros.
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Mike Goodwin
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I'm just saying that the synth seems to be very inefficient. I can get six or more voices out of the Pro12. That is fine for me. I can't get two out of Void and to me it sounds the same. How many DSP's do you need to play six notes on a Solaris? It is pretty frustrating that your expected to spend 2,570.26 CAD to play a VIRTUAL instrument. That is pretty insane. At that point I start to look a buying some dam nice analog hardware. A Dave Smith prophet 08 is only $1900 and it is ANALOG with 60 odd encoders and a decent key-bed. Something is out of whack at that point. Also if you look at the Access Virus for Powercore you get (if i remember right) six voices off one of the four DSP's on that card and is the same thing as the hardware. That synth is is one of the best souding digital synths out there. That card costs about $600 bucks! I love the synths on Scope and I am looking to expand but the prices keep me out of the new market for sure.scope4live wrote:Brotha' Man Mike,
I am sicker than most, but Solaris w/ 8 voices of Poly is better than sex.
I use to feel the way you do, and also bought into the SFP thing w/ a meger Project card. I became angry, but bought another. Then I was really pissed off that I didn't buy a Pro board. But once I bought one of them, and starting messing w/ big poly counts, I soon realised the incredible sound when playing my usual 4 and 5 note clusters, with low notes, and left hand octaves.
Face it,..your fucked, and must keep buying.
Save yourself the trouble though, as our feelings were similar. Don't make the mistake of buying 2 Project cards.
Jump in for the big wim,....get some pros.
I agree that it's not a very efficient investment if you want to play just one (virtual) analog synth...
A Dave Smith instrument is usually fine, but it cannot do routing, mixing and records - a digital patchbay is more expensive than what you paid for the hardware...
You're probably on the right track tho regarding 'efficiency' of that specific synth, if you report you don't hear a difference.
John Bowen is a very experienced programmer (for a decade! on this system) and included lots of optimization in his synths to unload unused parts of the processing engine.
It's not a trivial thing at all, so you may pardon Fra77's first attempt...
I have the Zarg Solaris and the QWave and with 12 DSPs there are tons of patches that I can only use with 2 or 3 voice poly .
Scope4live is absolutely correct that when you want anything serious beyond the classic Moog/Sequential way of synths, you're a bit tight with less than 14 DSPs.
An Access Virus certainly is a great performance synth, but it doesn't have the same audio quality processing as Scope.
It's due to it's heritage - Motorola DSPs are known for tons of voices, but a slightly 'artificial' noiseprint, sacrificing tone quality for polyphony.
bottom line: the classic Moog, Prophet, Hammod emulations in Scope are as close to the real thing as possible.
Synths like Solaris or QWave were either impossible to build or way beyond the budget of 'us regular folks' before Scope - even if it needs a 15 DSP card.
You miss one important point in your complaints: a small Scope system can be extended - you can check out quality with a relatively compact setup.
A project card is a bargain today considering the software that comes with it.
You can checkout the excellent audio quality - if you like it, plug in a 14 DSP extender for the poly you need.
You will certainly find out that polyphony is a pretty neglectble thing in Scope because the individual voice sounds so much better than most VST stuff, or even hardware.
Try it yourself - switch off all effects and listen to a naked voice on any arbitrary synth - the Scope voice will always be among leading, in the digital domain probably the best.
cheers, Tom
A Dave Smith instrument is usually fine, but it cannot do routing, mixing and records - a digital patchbay is more expensive than what you paid for the hardware...
You're probably on the right track tho regarding 'efficiency' of that specific synth, if you report you don't hear a difference.
John Bowen is a very experienced programmer (for a decade! on this system) and included lots of optimization in his synths to unload unused parts of the processing engine.
It's not a trivial thing at all, so you may pardon Fra77's first attempt...
I have the Zarg Solaris and the QWave and with 12 DSPs there are tons of patches that I can only use with 2 or 3 voice poly .
Scope4live is absolutely correct that when you want anything serious beyond the classic Moog/Sequential way of synths, you're a bit tight with less than 14 DSPs.
An Access Virus certainly is a great performance synth, but it doesn't have the same audio quality processing as Scope.
It's due to it's heritage - Motorola DSPs are known for tons of voices, but a slightly 'artificial' noiseprint, sacrificing tone quality for polyphony.
bottom line: the classic Moog, Prophet, Hammod emulations in Scope are as close to the real thing as possible.
Synths like Solaris or QWave were either impossible to build or way beyond the budget of 'us regular folks' before Scope - even if it needs a 15 DSP card.
You miss one important point in your complaints: a small Scope system can be extended - you can check out quality with a relatively compact setup.
A project card is a bargain today considering the software that comes with it.
You can checkout the excellent audio quality - if you like it, plug in a 14 DSP extender for the poly you need.
You will certainly find out that polyphony is a pretty neglectble thing in Scope because the individual voice sounds so much better than most VST stuff, or even hardware.
Try it yourself - switch off all effects and listen to a naked voice on any arbitrary synth - the Scope voice will always be among leading, in the digital domain probably the best.
cheers, Tom
Mike,
thats why I prefer the more limited synth emulations over the super-synths that can do everything in one package theoretically.
For an external hardware synth like the solaris it makes sense to build a synth that can do almost everything and make it extremly flexible.
For a flexible platform like scope that can load different plug-ins/emulations at a time, I think there is no point for building a synth that can do everything at one time.
The voice limitation make them almost unuseable for the normal scope user with one or two cards...
for sure you can take unused atoms off the dsps but then again you have the long loading times while switching presets.(up to a second)
Otherwise a complex synth architecture will be a dsp hog for sure.
The scope platform is from 1999 and so are its limitations with such complex synths.
new scope cards would change this situation dramatically.
thats why I prefer the more limited synth emulations over the super-synths that can do everything in one package theoretically.
For an external hardware synth like the solaris it makes sense to build a synth that can do almost everything and make it extremly flexible.
For a flexible platform like scope that can load different plug-ins/emulations at a time, I think there is no point for building a synth that can do everything at one time.
The voice limitation make them almost unuseable for the normal scope user with one or two cards...
for sure you can take unused atoms off the dsps but then again you have the long loading times while switching presets.(up to a second)
Otherwise a complex synth architecture will be a dsp hog for sure.
The scope platform is from 1999 and so are its limitations with such complex synths.
new scope cards would change this situation dramatically.
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Mike Goodwin
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All the comments are fair. It would be nice if this was mentioned in a little more forward way. For example, when buying Void it should be stated that you need a Pro card in order to use it in any reasonable way. Pretty simple. That way it would be clear just how demanding these synths are. Like I said I am on board for the sound of the synths and the mixing.
most of the "fattest" sounding synths and patches are monophonic....
polyphony is a bonus.
then again....
well, can't have everything...just almost everything...
no biggie, if VOID doesn't work for you, don't buy it for sure. fer shur.
Solaris may take a lot of DSP, but what it does is phenomenal, so the fact that it's a dsp hog can be forgiven.
polyphony is a bonus.
then again....
well, can't have everything...just almost everything...
no biggie, if VOID doesn't work for you, don't buy it for sure. fer shur.
Solaris may take a lot of DSP, but what it does is phenomenal, so the fact that it's a dsp hog can be forgiven.
not to forget that huge polyphony only works on humble voices - 'good' voices simply tend to be blurred under such circumstances.
I've never felt a need to complain even when I had only 4 DSPs for Solaris - those individual voices had such nice texture.
I also didn't feel the need to use all and every possibility of the synth structure.
After getting more familiar with the features I had my favourite bits and pieces to put together.
Sorry for repeatingly quoting Solaris, but that's my biggest resource hog in the synth domain - I assume Fra77's synths are similiarly complex, so the comments apply in both cases.
cheers, Tom
I've never felt a need to complain even when I had only 4 DSPs for Solaris - those individual voices had such nice texture.
I also didn't feel the need to use all and every possibility of the synth structure.
After getting more familiar with the features I had my favourite bits and pieces to put together.
Sorry for repeatingly quoting Solaris, but that's my biggest resource hog in the synth domain - I assume Fra77's synths are similiarly complex, so the comments apply in both cases.
cheers, Tom
Amen Brotha' Man Astro.
I use 8 voices on all of my synths as I love the same sound throughout the spectrum of the keyboard. Most users have a more conservative approach with 4 or 5 voices and this would suffice on a CW or Bowen synth. I often use 5 or 6 just for the right hand clusters, thanks to my hero.......R.I.P. Josef Zawinul.
But still when in Pop or Rock mode those same presets will go to a 4 voice Unison where they can be spread out through the detune function in Unison mode.
I also hate to re trigger my envelopes from a lack of polyphony, so my use is not a normal du Jour style. Soniccore scrutinizes the developers that they sponsor, rightly so. I think that from the demos I heard, that Sur's synths are of a great quality. But it sure seems hungry for DSP's to me. Now I really am interested in Cos. Have you any experience w/ it yet?
The performance features are what I tend to lean towards these days.
I hate to see such a decent person and new comer unhappy. I only hope we can all help to turn this around for you. My first suggestion is to up the anti. As then Scope will still piss you off, but after hearing stuff from Bowen, Wolf, DAS, Celmo, SpaceF, Shroomz, MCCY, and Flexor III, live seems worth living again.
I was elated like this when I shot my first automatic under / over M16 Grenade launcher w/ the 3 shot selectable and fully automatic position. As up until that point I was only allowed a semi-auto version w/ 40mm Willie Pete's ( white phosphorus ). Fully auto w/ HE 40mm's is like gagging on 45DSP's, better than sex.
I use 8 voices on all of my synths as I love the same sound throughout the spectrum of the keyboard. Most users have a more conservative approach with 4 or 5 voices and this would suffice on a CW or Bowen synth. I often use 5 or 6 just for the right hand clusters, thanks to my hero.......R.I.P. Josef Zawinul.
But still when in Pop or Rock mode those same presets will go to a 4 voice Unison where they can be spread out through the detune function in Unison mode.I also hate to re trigger my envelopes from a lack of polyphony, so my use is not a normal du Jour style. Soniccore scrutinizes the developers that they sponsor, rightly so. I think that from the demos I heard, that Sur's synths are of a great quality. But it sure seems hungry for DSP's to me. Now I really am interested in Cos. Have you any experience w/ it yet?
The performance features are what I tend to lean towards these days.
I hate to see such a decent person and new comer unhappy. I only hope we can all help to turn this around for you. My first suggestion is to up the anti. As then Scope will still piss you off, but after hearing stuff from Bowen, Wolf, DAS, Celmo, SpaceF, Shroomz, MCCY, and Flexor III, live seems worth living again.
I was elated like this when I shot my first automatic under / over M16 Grenade launcher w/ the 3 shot selectable and fully automatic position. As up until that point I was only allowed a semi-auto version w/ 40mm Willie Pete's ( white phosphorus ). Fully auto w/ HE 40mm's is like gagging on 45DSP's, better than sex.
Hello to all and merry Christmas.
I have to announce that i 'm preparing the updates for both synthesizers.
The updates are ready and i am spending some time with the preset lists.
I got to say that that is a major upgrade.
Some things:
For VOID:
i. All presets reworked and saved with polyphony 1 so to avoid crashes and dsp errors.
ii. A little optimize. Don't wait a big improvement (due to current architecture). It can raise the voices now to 4-8 for a 21 DSP system.
iii. Complete reworked envelopes. Simulated analog behaviour and the filter envelope now can loop with the release stage.
iv. Cleared interface of some artifacts that caused (alot) of crashes.
v. Improved modulations with accurate aftertouch, mod wheel, velocity.
vi. Reworked sound.
for COS:
i. Complete reworked envelopes. Analog behaviour and the AD env can loop with the decay stage.
ii. reworked sound.
iii. fixed some minor bugs.
I won't say more guys. I think they will be ready in about 15 days.
cheers,
John
I have to announce that i 'm preparing the updates for both synthesizers.
The updates are ready and i am spending some time with the preset lists.
I got to say that that is a major upgrade.
Some things:
For VOID:
i. All presets reworked and saved with polyphony 1 so to avoid crashes and dsp errors.
ii. A little optimize. Don't wait a big improvement (due to current architecture). It can raise the voices now to 4-8 for a 21 DSP system.
iii. Complete reworked envelopes. Simulated analog behaviour and the filter envelope now can loop with the release stage.
iv. Cleared interface of some artifacts that caused (alot) of crashes.
v. Improved modulations with accurate aftertouch, mod wheel, velocity.
vi. Reworked sound.
for COS:
i. Complete reworked envelopes. Analog behaviour and the AD env can loop with the decay stage.
ii. reworked sound.
iii. fixed some minor bugs.
I won't say more guys. I think they will be ready in about 15 days.
cheers,
John
