Pro Flexor for Scope 5 - PETITION

[ReD_MuZe]

I have offered Flexor 3.5 to Holger about a year ago.

It is no surprise to Holger we are not supporting Xite. The surprise is the timing.

You see, in the past year i have seldomly heard from holger, and my emails were always getting replied after 3 months and with fragmented information and nothing to the point.

The background for this goes way back. when we have suffered a loss of 90% of our earnings when cw went chapter 11. This has brought a dark period to us all. since we could not rely on any plugin sales system. when we found a source for such a system we started packing up FleXor3 which was until then just an assortment of dp experiments. some of you may guess who this source is, and you owe FleXor3's existence to him! you can also do an easy 1+1 and see why i was getting ignored.

despite of this option that i already had, about a week before SonicCore came to life, i approached Holger with an offer for flexor3 which was ignored. among the emails were suggestions for flexor3.5, suggestions for helping them redesign modular 4, pack modules for them, asking for the feature that works in DP and not in scope 4 that unleashes flexor's polyphony restriction( yes there is one!!!!). all ignored or replied after several months and without any relevance.

Finally two weeks before the release of flexor. i have informed him that i chose the other source and from then on total silence except for "i am very busy" type emails. then xite was announced, i sent another email, and received another "i am very busy"

after contacting with holger this week, by the context it became clear that they do not want to do business and asked for a price they knew we would not accept. And up untill today they have tried to stall until Xite is out with no deal on flexor.

well surprise surprise.

I cant let my clients buy scope5 or xite just to find flexor is locked out.
I love scope i have posted the first modular patch in planetz (well besides john himself). cables are my veins. and flexor is now xfered to a portable format partly because of what you have read above. and we are already developing it for several months now.

Holger has been given a resonable offer for providing us with a simple protection mechanism for products that are market ready. This offer stands forever.

This is the lowdown. I am NOT getting into anymore details than this becouse its not apropriate and respective for this forum that i love so much but my trusty gmail account knows the truth.

Untill i get a positive reply from Holger i will not address this issue, as i am tired of mocking about.

We are going business as usual with flexor 3 that will stay just as powerful on scope 4 even after scope 5 comes out. This is so we can provide a smooth transition to new flexor for the current users.

[irrelevance]

Thanks for the Reply Red and Holger but somehow I'm still none the wiser!?
Holger seems to be in denial that these events/communication ever happened but Red wouldn't jump ship wihtout good reason...

If Flexor gets ported to native it's SC's loss our gain I believe. Native coders have been enjoying an almost limitless freedom it seems within the software realm. The flexor interface will become easier to work with, it will >integrate< into every DAW software you can think of; by this I mean host sync, outputs tied to mixers on load, preset browsing all of the things that current software takes for granted. Native Sound quality is not an issue. Absynth, FM8, Korg legacy digital are some of the finest sounding creations I've heard. Better still there is integration.
I don't need to tweak a patch ad infinitum to make it sound like one of the classics...Flexor is a classic in it's own right! Xite is a nice idea but it seems SC are not thinking 21st century.

[Shroomz~>]

Xite is a nice idea but it seems SC are not thinking 21st century.

I have to respectfully dissagree with you on that one. Xite is a great idea and along with Platform 5 represents everything that we as Scope users have been asking for in recent times. IMO Sonic Core have the best interests of the Scope platform and user base at heart and have so far demonstrated a willingness to be innovative in their development of the platform whilst taking on board the existing support and maintenance. Personally I really couldn't ask for much more. It's a shame if Adern choose not to support the new Sonic Core products, but it's their decision. Good luck to them if that's the case though.

[dawman]

Good points.

And as irrelevance has pointed out some VSTi's have finally improved their sound quality as they matured. FM7 to FM8 was a very noticable jump IMHO.

I think Adern Modules using AU / VST / RTAS should sound fine and am only concerned that both products will continue development.

I was looking so forward to hearing Sea Synth and my very own Hohner D6 with drawbar mutes and whammy bar w/ no poly restrictions. As a matter of fact the D7 is what I called it as I made it's sound 21st century. Release samples on that particular instrument are an imperfection that while sounding authentic, sound like crap. The D7 was my first patch from scratch I ever made. It's a rewarding experience, and I plan on using Modular / Adern modules in the future..........Re Packed Modular 4? Sounds interesting, perhaps the STS6000 and VDAT II.

[Mr-Bit]

I have had my Pulsar II for close to 7yrs and the only plugins I have bought in this time are ModIII and Flexor 3
go figure.

Mabye SC have Mod IIIII cooking and don't want the the Flexor competition

I ran up to Exite now I'm reversing out slowly through the exit.

[sonicstrav]

These annoucements show Adern's really finished with the Scope platform for future development - it is only going to be legacy support once Scope 5 is out

[pling]

i disagree.

Holger has been given a resonable offer for providing us with a simple protection mechanism for products that are market ready. This offer stands forever.

it is still up to s|c and adern to make flexor happen for scope5 and further. future releases with new gui and algos are something else, though. we don't know bout the new possibilities of the new platform and dsps. that we will see soon.

i would appreciate if you (s|c and adern) would at least make flexor3 happen on scp5. otherwise we need to keep a copy of scope4 and xp32 forever.

[valis]

Mabye SC have Mod IIIII cooking and don't want the the Flexor competition

I don't think that has any real bearing on the situation, SC isn't trying to shut Adern out to replace Flexor with their own products instead (at least I don't think so).

[valis]

From what I understand, the current situation is a reflection of the way things unfolded during the shift to the SonicCore branding & staffing on back through both chapter 11 filings. Assaf stated his feelings fairly clearly, and the lack of communication with Holger (aside from 1 recent email) he indicated reflects in Holger's earlier comments too.

The events that occured around the time of the SC filing co-incided with Adern's push to release Flexor3, and there were a number of attempts to get things from SC to facilitate that, mostly left in a vacuum for lack of response (it was assumed at the time they were too busy shifting the business over to the new business structure). The main concern of Adern's at the time was to make sure that the income generated by the sale of the new version wouldn't get sucked up by another unforseen event (like the bankruptcy filings). Being left in a vacuum for a few months, a means was found to offer direct sales through the Adern website.

To give Holger the benefit of the doubt, it was later clarified by Bowen that he was busy having a baby on top of shifting things over to SC from CW and so was understandably distracted. However that wasn't clear at the time so the means that were chosen to get Flexor3 to the public were apparently at odds with SC's current business interests, and it seems the only way to offer the devices in the future (Scope5 on up) will be through SonicCore.

To be fair again it's my understanding that the recent communications with SC in regards to future Flexor sales weren't out of line with what other 3rd party devs are being set up with, it's just that there's a legacy of baggage behind all this that leads to a lack of trust (possibly on both sides). Since the communication also seems to be somewhat erratic and stilted it's hard to really judge SC's intent, but Assaf has stated that Adern isn't comfortable with doubling the costs for no justifiable reason (ie, it wouldn't be for new Flexor4 features or anything). To take the other route (not doubling the cost) would be to simply cut Adern's income down by a large margin and Flexor is not exactly generating independant living as it is at this point. In our discussions of the matter there doesn't seem to be a good resolution to this.

Be very clear though, Adern isn't attempting to extort SC into a unique position in contrast to other 3rd party developers, which is why Assaf is asking that there be no petition or userbase effort to hold SC hostage over Flexor. He alluded to an 'original offer' in regards to how to license Flexor for Scope, and that offer still stands for Scope5. Personally I don't really expect that to happen but I am sure Adern would cooperate fully if that route was chosen.

So barring any new developments between SC & Adern, the main point of concern for current Flexor users should be: will your existing 3rd party purchases work on Scope5 by default? This is up to SonicCore to clarify as Adern doesn't have any control over that.

[pling]

make it more expensive, if necessary. if you go VSTi/AU then the 'poor people' will have it 'for free' anyway. my 2c

[irrelevance]

Xite is a nice idea but it seems SC are not thinking 21st century.

I have to respectfully dissagree with you on that one. Xite is a great idea and along with Platform 5 represents everything that we as Scope users have been asking for in recent times. IMO Sonic Core have the best interests of the Scope platform and user base at heart and have so far demonstrated a willingness to be innovative in their development of the platform whilst taking on board the existing support and maintenance. Personally I really couldn't ask for much more. It's a shame if Adern choose not to support the new Sonic Core products, but it's their decision. Good luck to them if that's the case though.

What I should have said Shroomz is that with regards to Modular SC are not thinking 21st century. Of course I understand that a project of this size can only be handled piecemeal, you can't eat the elephant in one sitting but smaller pieces over time.

Thanks Valis for kindly illuminating what some the issues have been.
I'm not going to rock the boat and petition for Flexor support and I'm not going to moan if Mod development is put on hold until the rest of the platform is brought up to date and up to speed but I do want to protect my investment. It's pointless upgrading if I cannot use the plugs I currently own.
It seems as if the ball's in SC court now. Are we going to lose money based on this SC decision?

[irrelevance]

make it more expensive, if necessary. if you go VSTi/AU then the 'poor people' will have it 'for free' anyway. my 2c

If you're defining poor as those on low income that that thinking is false. I know people who have plenty of money and are earning in the business and yet still do not by the software/sample libraries that they use and by contrast students who have very little by way of income who proudly display there purchases on the shelf.

Greed is beyond money

[pling]

sorry, i've been sarcastic. but flexor is very low priced, i'm certain that most people argee on that.
i agree on what you are saying and i find aderns price-politics really noble.
i'll be a customer of s|c and adern in the future and i still hope they will find a solution together, though it doesn't sound very promising.

thanks valis, your post make things more clear.

[maky325]

This thread is sad... You dont need Einstein brain to see what is going behind the "business communication"..

There should be some rigorous kind of level quality/category for 3rd party developers. Better one will have better offer from SC. Badly one will have 50%.
Cmon, there is bunch load of 3rd party crap for Scope too...Selling like PRO stuff...While Flexor is more then just Pro.

I dont want to be rude but for now i only saw top quality plugins from Mr Bowen, Warp69, And few users(three of them) well known here at planet Z. Any other "great" company at this point can only dream about quality of mentioned people...Of course just personal observation.


-edit: now when i think twice, if this kind of "business offer" is slowing down releases from great 3rd party developers such as Warp96 i am sad even more We can only dream what we could already have at this time...

[valis]

If you're wondering about how this affects other 3rd party devs feel free to ask them or check SonicCore's site. The situation with Adern shouldn't necessarily be extrapolated across the board, though SonicCore's standard policy for 3rd party devs is probably consistant.

[maky325]

If you're wondering about how this affects other 3rd party devs feel free to ask them or check SonicCore's site. The situation with Adern shouldn't necessarily be extrapolated across the board, though SonicCore's standard policy for 3rd party devs is probably consistant.

Yes, last time i check those 3rd party developers i saw/demo/experience 70% of them to be total useless crap
Fancy GUI with so called analogue modeling (despite the fact of stock atoms, and option to get same with what you already have in Scope software ) marketing nonsense.
What? Are you trying to tell me that everything released for scope is marginally better each time something is released ?
Or are you trying to tell me that few month/year work with great and OBVIOUS results should be priced same as one week work of connecting stock modules wrapped in fancy GUI?
Consistency in business can be dangerous if used wrong (just as surprise everything else)

Luckily for us there is quality vs quantity...I want quality...You?
I would be more happy and see better use/benefit with less top quality plugins/developers, then with more poor quality plugins(developers)...

I will say again IMO Flexor synth is ahead of most you can find there (there are jewels but they are rare). It is without a doubt example of great programming skills and sound quality. Fair price....

[pling]

coool! let's start another flame war! [/sarcasm]

mpodrug, check your ears and speakers...
of course i agree on the top quality developers you mention, but imho there are some more...nothing more to say

[Mary Mungo]

Modular & Flexor are like peas and carrots, they go together well.

Here Here, I agree, like brocolli and cauliflower they are inseparable I truly hope as I dearly love them both

[dawman]

Yes I Agree Sista' Women Mary,

A Bird Can't Tell You Much About Aero Dynamics.

If you have time, could you comment on this project here..http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 31&t=25626 ?

I saw a surface you and others were making and it has inspired me. Thanks 4 That.

I would have to contract the work to someone as I am quite lame, and rather feeble at this. I think custom solutions are the way to go.

Hope your Guitar Rig is making U Happy. It looked very functional.

[Refrochia]

I hope things get sorted out.

The fact that Holger has posted here is promising (especially when you consider the time of post - thats dedication!).

It sounds to me like there was a massive break down in communication somewhere along the line which, hopefully, can be fixed.

I think what is probably best is for both Adern and SonicCore to resolve this directly and in private (hopefully that process has already started). Just like the XITE, I guess where gonna have to sit tight to wait for more info!