Help please....is it worth it?

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 3:58 pm

Hello all.

I am new to this forum, and have a question that maybe you all asked at one time or another.

I am considering a Pulsar II system....either just the Pulsar II or maybe also with a SRB card.

I have listened to the demo's on the Creamware site, and to some of the music submitted on this site, and I really like the sound of the system.

I am wondering though, if it is worth the investment? Let me explain my setup and my goals:

Hardware:

Macintosh G4 500mhz
768mb RAM
20GB HD (system)
60GB HD (audio)
NEC 1700M+ LCD Monitor
Digidesign Digi 001
Apogee Rosetta (connected to 001 via SPDIF)
AMEK 9098 Dual Mic Pre
Neumann TLM 103
Mackie 1202 (monitoring purposes only)
Stealth G4 port
Opcode Studio 4 serial MIDI interface (8x8)
Roland PC 300 USB MIDI keyboard

Software:

OS 9.0.4
Pro Tools LE 5.1.1
Virtually ALL RTAS plugs currently being made
Reason
Dynamo
Battery

Goals:

I like the idea of having a COMPLETELY software based studio, but I need more synths and BETTER SOUNDING synths. I do mostly electronic music (dance).
My options are to either buy hardware, or go with a Creamware system.

Questions:

1. I know sound is a subjective matter, but do you think the Creamware synths SOUND better than other softsynths (Reason, Dynamo / Reaktor)?

2. Will I be able to have a reasonably large project open with just a Pulsar II card (by this I mean at least five or six synths), or will I need the SRB as well?

*As a comparison, I regularly use 10- 15 devices in Reason with little CPU usage and the ability to pile more on if I choose. I would like this kind of ability but with the improved SOUND that I think Creamware will give.

3. Anyone here using Pro Tools that can vouch for the integration? Problems? Reliability? Etc.. My plan is to lightpipe everything (synths) from the Creamware card into the Digi card, and to also use effects as a send bus from the Digi.

I am on the fence here. If the system is worth it...well, I will jump. I guess I just need honest feedback. The price seems reasonable for the capability (even with the SRB tacked on).

Help a brother out

Cheers and thanks!

Post by **garyb** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:39 pm

more dsps are always nice.you can still use your native stuff,too.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:57 pm

I think Pulsar synths are way better than Reaktor, Reason and most Vsti's I've tried. But it does come at a price. The Prisma synth with six voices, plus a few effects, a reverb and the Pulsarmixer just about does it for my 6DSP PulsarII. Consequently I do almost everything as audio. But it's worth it. I want hardware quality not some scratchy 96-voice cheapy.

There's lots of discussions along these lines in the archive. Do a search for Reaktor etc then post more questions

dxl · Post by **dxl** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 6:12 pm

you wont get real correct answers here dude.
many posters(20 ppl) here will say yes you shoud buy creamwares
coz there are lots creamware dealers, developers, staffs here, actually mostly they are.

or you are one of them?

_________________
I'm still seeing new things in life.
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[ This Message was edited by: dxl on 2002-04-24 19:30 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 6:20 pm

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 6:35 pm

Yeah, I did the searches.

I am just new to this system, and I guess I wanted to make sure I was making the right move.

I am interested really in two quesions:

1. The subjective SOUND of the system. ie is it better than other Softsynths?
2. If quesion 1 is a go....then should I get the SRB board? Is it worth it, or will I be pissed off because I spent 3K+ and can only run 2 synths and a mixer? If that's the case, then I'll just stick with hardware and pick up a Q or Supernova or something.

This is the best board I have been able to find....if you have any other suggestions....I am all ears.

Thanks for your time guys.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 6:40 pm

dxl is our favourite whining member here, so I suggest you take his advice without too much gravity, or you might be a victim of his deceit. This forum is full of CW users as well as some developers and I have only good comments about general honesty and the generous vibe here.

With all respect to everyone, you might well ignore dxl's stupid comment and pay attention to real answers! And I'm no dealer nor developer!

Peace.

bennals · Post by **bennals** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:31 pm

I'm also looking at the Creamware cards for a similar reason, though I'm more interested in using Reason via Rewire into DP3.

I tried the 8 Reason outs into a 001 for a long time with an RME card providing the ADAT out. I found timing problems with the audio entering PTle - when the hardware buffer settings for the RME card were high, there were really annoying inconsistencies with the timing with which each drum sound would arrive at the 001/PT le. Setting the buffer lower would correct these inconsistencies to a large degree, but also intoduce little digital artefacts in the audio data. It was iimpossible for me to find a satisfactory compromise. I know you can always correct timing problems at the editing stage, but I really want to compose in real time, and preferably have as many individual instruments on separate tracks in my multitrack app as possible. Rewire and DP3 allows me to get around 16 separate outputs from Reason onto individual tracks in DP3 without overstressing the processor (which causes distoriton) and acceptable timing for composing. I use a g4 466, and theres enough headroom for a reverb return and quite a bit of eqing in DP3. Sequencing is also coming from DP3.

Now what does all this have to do with lightpiping CW synths out to your 001. Maybe nothing, but I urge you to thoroughly test this set up before you buy. The fact that the CW synths don't use the cpu for processing, whereas Reason does, might make all the diffence. But it may be that it's the timing of transfer of midi data from your sequencer (CPU based) that is being screwed with by the hardware buffer being to large. Having a fantastically powerful computer would obviously address the CPU limitations, but your G4 is pretty close to mine.

Don't know if this helps, but I found the lightpipe into 001 method unworkable for my purposes, and you don't want to find that out after spending several g's on some gear.

Bill.

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:34 pm

I'm surprised you don't have enough synths with Reason and Dynamo already. I mean there's quite a bit of synth power there between the two of them.

I can't remember all the RTAS plug-ins, but there's one or two synths there too isn't there?

I have no idea how the Creamware cards work in conjunction with Digi001, but that's a pretty good card.

I think you'll like a PulsarII in the sense that it does come with quite a few synths and the sound quality of the synths are OK.

I can usually throw a couple of Pulsar synths, a mixer or two and a couple of effects with the Pulsar II without a problem, but I use Pulsar in conjunction with my other stuff as well.

In terms of sound quality, the synths are good - arguably quite a bit better than what you'll find in Dynamo and Reason, but I don't really like to push this because it's a bit too subjective for me.

It's flexible! I guess that's my most favourable comment about Pulsar, the environment itself is very flexible. And you can always start off with a Pulsar and add an SRB later if you don't find the DSP power to be enough.

By the way, how do you like Battery? I haven't used it myself but it's supposed to be the ultimate is Drum Samplers. You probably won't need to replace that with anything that Pulsar has to offer.

Caleb.

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:45 pm

Battery is really REALLY cool.

And I find it works well and is stable with my system.

A good method for me so far is to do all my programming in Reason....sort of like a scratch pad.

Then I will export the tracks individually, as well as export the MIDI file.

I then import both the audio files and the MIDI into Pro Tools

This way, I can audition sounds along with the original audio from Reason...If I like the new stuff...I record it...If I don't, I keep the scratch.

It's pretty flexible, I just want more options and better performance from the system.

Latencies and timing errors are something I definitely DON'T want to have to correct for.

Cheers

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:47 pm

What softsynths are you also considering ? I think there are no clearly better softsynths than what you'll find available for Pulsar. Also the range is fantastic. If you're into synths then Pulsar/Scope is THE plaform IMHO. The alternative might be to go: Absynth, PPG & Pro52, but that's pretty expensive and way more than halfway in $ terms to a PulsarII anyway. And Pulsar/Scope is constntly evolving with most updates being free. The platform has improved 100% since I bought my card about 18 months ago.

If you want to run five or six softsynths simultaneously via MIDI, each with five or six voices then you'll certainly need more than 6 DSPs. I find impossible to have a full song running in MIDI with a single 6DSP card - unless I use the "lighter" devices, but what's the point of that? That's why I go audio.

Here's an excellent post talking about DSPs and voice counts:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 35&forum=5

What I like best about Pulsar:

* Fantastic synths
* Lots of devices (free & commercial, synths & effects)
* Flexability (synths one day, mixing system the next etc)
* Good community
* ModularV2 - build your own devices

More questions ?

dxl · Post by **dxl** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:57 pm

synths don't sound better than some softwares'
if synths are your interest to CW, then do you know many synths takes lots DSP?
if you can get 3 pro sounding CW synths(with 1 voice each), 1 mixer, and 2~5 effects. ( if you use Compressor or EQ, you can use more)then you are lucky.
effects don't sound good compare to many softwares'
you can listen to business man
or go to more public forums ask how many are using CW's and how many had that.
then you will get more nutrial answers.

_________________
I'm still seeing new things in life.
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[ This Message was edited by: dxl on 2002-04-24 21:01 ]

[ This Message was edited by: dxl on 2002-04-24 21:13 ]

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:59 pm

I was also considering the synths you mentioned....particularly Pro 52 and Absynth.

I don't like Absynth's interface....I feel kinda like I am programming a DX-7 or something. Decent sound though.

I like Pro 52...interface and sound and may pick it up regardless of my Pulsar purchase.

Has anyone tried the Pro One plug from Wine Country? Any good?

dxl · Post by **dxl** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:03 pm

the PRo One, you can't get over 3 voice on you Pulsar2 (6DSP)
If you are looking for Profive sounds
the best computer based choice is Korg Oasys, but totally not supporting XP, but about 350USD now.

On 2002-04-24 20:59, Kamurah wrote:
I was also considering the synths you mentioned....particularly Pro 52 and Absynth.

I don't like Absynth's interface....I feel kinda like I am programming a DX-7 or something. Decent sound though.

I like Pro 52...interface and sound and may pick it up regardless of my Pulsar purchase.

Has anyone tried the Pro One plug from Wine Country? Any good?

_________________
I'm still seeing new things in life.
<a href="http://mp3.com/dxl">www.mp3.com/dxl</a>

[ This Message was edited by: dxl on 2002-04-24 21:05 ]

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:06 pm

WOW!....that's some STEEP DSP usage!

dxl · Post by **dxl** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:12 pm

i can tell you more.

now, creamware even delet their support page.
totally don't want new people to know more about their product.
and the one month delay on the bug fixing update.

well, it depends on how you think...

NI software synths sound better and smoother than many creamwares, but aint as fat as CW's, but you can always make it fater by adding bass or excite it.
Pentagon, PPG, Pro52 are great choices.

there do have lots good sounding synths for CW tho, but cost a lot and can't use many of them at once.

read some of my posts, you will find out some things that cw people don't want to tell.
_________________
I'm still seeing new things in life.
<a href="http://mp3.com/dxl">www.mp3.com/dxl</a>

[ This Message was edited by: dxl on 2002-04-24 21:23 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:18 pm

The Pro One is damn close to the original (I used to own a Pro-One and played it live). It's expensive on the DSPs but then the Pro One isn't the sort of device you'd start playing monstrous ambient chords with. Again, to get the best "hardware" quality you soak up the DSPs, but the "non-billionaire" system that delivers total quality and total quantity does not yet exist methinks.

Have you checked out some more info on it here:
http://www.zargmusic.com/howtopurchase/
http://www.johnbowen.com/prophetplusfea ... usfeatures
John Bowen who runs Zarg was one of the original Sequential Circuits developers so you can be sure it's authentic sound. In fact I find it so close to my original machine (minus the tuning-pots problems!) and it's RAW sound that I don't like it that much. I think I've been spoiled by Celmo's silky VA and super-rich delays here:
http://www.celmo.com/page_accueil_plugins2.htm#Supreme

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:26 pm

Yes, read some of his posts and you will quickly be able to make a decision about his advice and its use.

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:58 pm

On 2002-04-24 19:12, dxl wrote:
you wont get real correct answers here dude.
many posters(20 ppl) here will say yes you shoud buy creamwares
coz there are lots creamware dealers, developers, staffs here, actually mostly they are.

or you are one of them?

Ok, sorry dxl, but that's it. I've been extremely tolerant of your incessant negativity, and your prolific trolling. I've received numerous complaints, and refused many, many requests to ban you or delete your posts, but now, I give in. I've sent private email to you asking you politely to revise your style, but you never replied, and you have become increasingly bothersome.

This isn't the first time you've welcomed a new member by telling them that they won't get any correct information in this forum, and accusing the members here of being liars, dealers, secret CW employees, etc. I've had enough of these stupid allegations and conspiracies. It's the very reason I left the Pulsar-scope list, and now you're making a huge effort to ruin this community in the same way.

This will be only the 2nd time I've banned a user in the history of planetz, and it doesn't make me happy. Simply, the planetz forums were a much healthier place before you arrived.

-John

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 9:08 pm

Gosh John....I really didn't mean to cause this.

You've got such a great resource here....I just wanted to get some opinions from users.

FWIW....I have pretty much decided that this system will suit my needs quite well.

Am going to place an order on the morrow.