PearC Professional - MAC Clone for XITE & PCI

[Janni]

Scope5 really sucks!!!
The "new" devices (e.g. Chorus_Delay) just force me to think about XITE... and that sucks!!!
The last months I tried to do everything in my Macbook using Live & Logic but in the end I
just couldn't live without my scope comps and eqs, bought a M-Audio Lightbridge, connected
it via ADAT with the scope PC and mixed again in scope...

My problem is that my PC is so old, it has no PCI-E and originally I wanted to move completely to
OSX... so buying a new PC just for XITE would be a little bit too much, I thought...
Then I found this one:

https://www.pearc.de/professional-line/ ... re=english

It's a macclone (German VAT: 1399 Euros) with preinstalled osx 15.5.7 so it wouldn't be a problem to install winxp (bootcamp) and
run XITE under winxp till XITE is osx-ready...
But the best a mac-scope-user could wish for: that "MAC" has 2 PCI slots which let you run 2 scope pci cards
under winxp (no osx) ?!?! Or am I getting something wrong...
So I would be able to buy that thing, use my PCI-cards under xp like before, then I could switch to XITE (if I do it)
and finally could use XITE under osx?

What do you think, guys? OSX updates shouldn't be a problem unless OSXI is out...
ANY hints welcome!!!!

Here the specs:

* Mac OS X 10.5.7 pre-installed
* 1x Gigabit Ethernet
* Integrated audio device
* 2x PCI Express x16 Slot (1x used by graphics card)
* 1x PCI Express x8 Slot
* 1x PCI Express x4 Slot
* 1x PCI Express x1 Slot
* 2x PCI Slot
* 10x S-ATA 2 Anschlüsse (2x used by hard disk and DVD)
* 10x USB 2.0 (8x rear, 2x front)
* 3x Firewire 400 (IEEE1394)
* High quality LianLi PC-9 case, completely made of aluminium

it has 6GB RAM...

[time_chase]

i thought you cant run scope/xite under xp in bootcamp. Same deal with all the virtualised environments - you cant install the drivers??

[valis]

Bootcamp isn't virtualized, what boot camp does is prepare the windows partition for you (by repartioning your main mac drive) and then provide the proper drivers for Apple hardware and a bootloader (which is necessary because Macs use GUID instead of MBR). Bootcamp is NOT necessary for a 'clone' because these are regular PC's using hardware that will already have drivers. GUID partitioning can have grub (or another similar 'hackintosh' scene) bootloader to act as the initial loader, which can then pass things off to the windows partition or OSX as you wish.

So basically you just boot into Windows or OSX as you wish. PearPC is NOT required to do this, just check out the insanelymac forums...

Also note that if you do go this route what I think you'll find is that when there actually are OSX drivers available your 10.5.7 OSX install is going to need updates that may or may not be supported well by PearPC, and the various USB & PCIe 'EFI emulation' layers that are common with these Mac 'clones' may or may not work with all future updates. I think running a hackintosh for your own personal enjoyment or as a personal challenge is worthwhile, but purchasing a 'clone' that has 0 support from Apple, not sure I'd do that...

[astroman]

you're correct Valis, and indeed the company explicitely states that boot camp doesn't work at all.
I've read it with much interest, though (thanks Janni) as the office I'm supporting sits somewhat between all chairs of Apple's current portfolio.

The Mac Mini is barely enough, while the Pro machines are overkill ...
Additionally I've found the Mini way above a tolerable failure rate for a production environment - not very Apple like (in the trad sense) at all...
ESATA and a faster network connection comes to mind and I'd rather avoid stuff like this
1k Euro for a preconfigured box would be quite attractive.

PearC suggest additional operating systems on dedicated harddisks, which isn't a restriction imho.
To be honest I don't remember any support from Apple since OSX anyway...

cheers, Tom

[Neutron]

Despite what "they" say it is a pain in the ass to update OSX on even the best hackintosh, and you never know if apple is going to "flip a switch" which will render your machine a brick (well then you can just install windows on it)

why not use both , then you can have acess to many programs that are not available for the other platform. and you can save money.

[erminardi]

Pear Vs. Apple

[Janni]

Hey guys, thanks for the input!

Here are some pictures from a cheaper version:

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotos ... 42685.html

and 2 benchmark tests

http://www.macwelt.de/gallery/show/galid/458/picnum/0
https://www.pearc.de/benchmarks.html/

pearc-logo-3-180x180.jpg (7.33 KiB) Viewed 2899 times

[darkrezin]

Don't support companies making money from hackintosh. It's illegal, unethical and endangers the scene which is *free*. Also they won't help you with any updating matters - you're on your own anyway.

It's really not hard to spec and build a machine that will run OSX well. Have to disagree with Neutron - it is possible to build a machine that you can update very easily and without additional hacking. It depends a lot on the motherboard you use. Search forum.insanelymac.com for all the info you need.

[Janni]

Don't support companies making money from hackintosh. It's illegal, unethical and endangers the scene which is *free*. Also they won't help you with any updating matters - you're on your own anyway.

illegal: According to european laws Apples EULA is void, because customers can't read the End Users License Agreement not before buying and opening the product.

unethical: I can't see that point either cause that machine just makes me buy MORE apple software (e.g. 2nd LOGIC 8 License)

You are right, I would be on my own anyway...
I bought one of the first multiprocessormacs (I think it was one of the last OS9-PCI ones) and that machine just drove me crazy... Applesupport was so great, I sold it to a webdesigner 2 months later!
He was happy with it, cause he didn't use any additional cards, which made it constantly freezing (scope & rme)...
But thanks for your input!!! ANY opinion is welcome!!!!!

[valis]

The reason it's unethical has less to do with Apple's EULA than it does these companies taking advantage of the efforts of people who made hackintoshes possible for 'average' users. Netkas for instance has even come back and added copyright terms to his EFI emulation code, and it still doesn't stop these companies from taking it and repackaging it. Chameleon did the same, and yet I doubt any of these companies paid anyone to do cold-room code reversals of any of this.

So by using these machines you're essentially saying it's ok to violate copyright, which IS protected under European law, though it's still a civil issue I think (it is here in the States at least). The fact that netkas doesn't have Apple's deep pockets to pursue civil cases in all these various countries doesn't remove the unethical nature of using EFI loaders to bypass Apple's tying their platform to their own EFI hooks, and then there's also the need to bypass dsmos.kext (which incidentally could be construed as bypassing copyright protections as well).

Anyway just try using a hackintosh and see how you fare with 3rd party cards & peripherals. You can't even safely run OS updates without proper preparation (even Chameloen/EFI still have teething issues though they're better than the manual kext replacement system before). If you think PearPC or whoever are your ticket to having Apple 'bliss' at PC hardware prices, you're fooling yourself. It takes Apple 6-12 months to get around to supporting quite a few things these days unless it fits into their iPod/iTunes/iWork philosophy, and by and large you're still relying on them for drivers if you want relatively bug-free computing. This includes everything from Graphics cards to onboard chipsets for controlling peripherals (ICH9 & ICH10 support took ages), and for many things there are just never drivers from them (gigabit & wireless networking cards, printers etc.) The only real exception I've seen there is the cpu support in their Mac Pro line (they do tend to get access to the latest Xeons immediately on release to market).

So you can buy a PearPC and stay 12-24 months behind the PC hardware you think you're getting access to with it and be somewhat safe, but even then I'm not sure PearPC will even equal up the level of support you got from Applecare.

(edit, removed an extranious "then" where it wasn't needed--was confusing)

[Janni]

ok, I see that point...
Thanks valis!!! As said before, ANY opinion is welcome...
Since I was raised catholic, I have to keep an eye on my good conscience...
Only a silly joke! I couldn't resist....