B2003 w/ Dynomic Leslie

[dawman]

Since I am lame w/ Cubase 4, I couldn't record and add the MIDI overdubs.
So I did a live VDAT thing. There are so many controllers and 2 x pedals that I had to sit down to be able to activate them while pushing bass and comping.
It makes you respect the old timers who pushed bass with their feet and still hit the Leslie and drawbars...

I found a great way to make the Leslie emulation in the B2003 sound the way I like it. It sounds fine stock, but sounds too clean. Adding Drive or distortion helps, but on a real Leslie the crossover frequency between the upper rotary horn and Bass baffle is around 800k. By adding the SAW Wave cutter to the crossover frequency range, then tweaking the fundamental frequencies, which pertain to each drawbar, I got a damn nice dirty sounding Leslie cabinet. Now when I add the generic global drive on the B2003, it sounds pretty good w/ light amounts.
To add a futuristic sound I put an expression pedal on the Global Frequency Fader of Dynomic ( horizontal fader up top ). It has a really full harmonic sweeping of the fundamental frequencies.

Using Mehdi's CC8 I could take 4 different drawbars and attach them to the Mod Wheel. I also used the lag time on it's maximum timing so I could hit the wheel and still play the notes w/o missing a lick.

This is the first time I have tried this so I played it safe w/ an easy bass and melody line.
I have something to keep me busy for a while, as this kept all hands and feet really busy.

Guys who know their sequencer apps well can record the track and overdub the controllers. I gave up on that and just recorded this live.
But sweeping w/ Dynomic should be overdubbed as it is a really deep sweeper and needs more accuracy that I could do w/ my feet.
Dance tunes w/ this thing would be a new type of effect IMHO.

[dante]

My favourite overdriven Hammond Organ sound is near the end of Jethro Tull Side 1 of Thick as a Brick - a short solo over some repeated guitar/bass/piano power chords.

[rhythmaster]

sounds great!!!

[dante]

I cant afford the creamware Leslie at the mo, but before I blow lesser but still hard earned dosh on this

http://baumanproductions.com/SeligProductions.html

if any of you B3 / Leslie experts ( specially u xite/4live ) can check it you think its worth $35 I'd be grateful but not dead

[dawman]

I think it's a great price, and on the other hand I wish I wasn't so picky about things.
The reason I would say yes is because of the price and the fact someone wants to learn how a real instrument is played using pedals,etc.
But I detected the consant percussion which sadly is from overlooking the details of the original instrument.
The percussion is used for accents and is not constantly on every note.
This is like drinking downstream from the Herd.

As far as the sounds go it seems to be OK but the demo doesn't demonstrate any drawbar swells or other realtime controls which IMHO misses the whole idea of the instrument.
Another detail is the Leslie. It needs to have seperate speeds for the lower baffle and upper rotary horn. When they are both accelerated to the fast speeds this is not really that crucial, but it's the slow down where the seperate speeds cause the Doppler Effect. Without that type of detailed control it sounds like a mushy vibrato.
But if it motivates one to practice and learn how a dynamic instrument can be played I think that's great.

Make sure to contact me if you break down and buy the B2003 though.
Using Mehdi's CC devices I can hook you up with the closest B3 emulation on the market.
And I would be happy to help.

[dante]

Ok thanks I will think about it a bit more, I suppose I'm not so much about learning to play it like the real thing, I would use it just to sit in a prog rock mix recording. Mind you if the solo sound of the thing blows me away more than I thought it would then Id probably write some unaccompanied lead breaks for it.

What you say about the rotors interests me because I've always appreciate stereo spacial effects, and also
I was impressed by the number of modelled characteristics on this plug like the smooth distortion, and polyphony lowering the volume like real air pressure distribution.

Ultimately I would no doubt opt for B2003 + Mehdi's, so this native plug is a cost compromise.

Again thanks for the advice....

[dante]

JAV, I got the Selig B3 and I must say it's exceptional value for money.

I updated my song at

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php ... 44#p267344

as you are familiar with it, but I replaced my Rompler Organ with the Selig version. I basically just slapped in the main preset without playing around with any of the drawbar or rotor parameters. This is way better than samples, using a bunch of Thor synths. In the out-of-the-box preset, I noticed there was about 12 thors ( 1 for each drawbar ) and 2 others for treble rotor and bass rotor repectively. Then a bunch of other EQ and compressors. I noticed in the preset folder a bunch of different presets for upper / lower manuals and the Lesley treble and bass rotors ( excuse my terminology if I get it wrong, I never played a real B3 ).

I drew in some midi modulation curves, and notice the rotor speeded up as I pushed the MOD wheel higher, so I daresay theres potential to control whatever if one was prepared to put some time into it, mapping to physical controllers etc.

Anyway I guess this would be similar in Scopeland to modelling a B3 using Modular, with an Osc per drawbar and then more for Rotors and FX.

It ain't no B2003 control or sound wise, but hey I would never do a real one justice anyway, so this was cost effective for where I'm at.

[dawman]

You should the Selig demo for PropellerHeads.
Seems you realize its strengths and use them.
Their demo has that awful key click/percussion sound which is suppose to be a monophonic layer that must be retriggered. Other than that it sounds fine and much better than a cheeseball sample.
I have a really nice Rhodes from Scarbee, but I also have a freebie called Ray that can do several various EPiano models and sometimes I would rather use that.
At the end of the day even the B2003's has its flaws and none are perfect, so making use of what works the best and avoiding the artifacts usually works just fine.
I think the B2003's strengths is the drawbar/zipper free use. So I tend to use that as much as possible. It has the worst Overdrive, and the scanner vibrato cannot be applied w/o matching the levels of the default ( un vibrato'd ) volume with a footpedal.
So I stay away from those artificial tones.
Nice work Mate......

BTW I have a Modular patch I use to convert the B2003 or any VSTi emulation for that matter into a combo orgam w/ the Fender Twin Reverb. I can convert it to Modular 2 or 3 if you want it.
All organs generate the same Sine and Saw waves basically but the tone controls of the B2003 are only like an original. Basically Additive synthesis with an Overdriven tube pre w/ Vibrato.
I added HiFiBooms glorious Valve Overdive and the Pattern Delay can do a great Spring Reverb loike a Twin using short delays and feedback.

untitled.JPG

[dante]

Thanks JAV, your pic above looks awesome. Once I've had a chance to really explore Selig I'll post something ( I'm thinking a MIDI rendition of that Jethro Tull solo ). For example, the key click is one of the parameters possible to turn it down/off ( or assign it to velocity ), and similar with the distortion. But I think you're right in avoiding those artifacts, unless you can get them absolutely right.

Next thing I will try is assigning the 2 rotors to different external controllers, probably pitch bend and mod. Then see if I can get the full doppler pans from having the 2 rotors at different speeds etc.

A modular patch would be interesting, I have an older Modular, maybe 2 or 3, so if you post the Modular 2 patch I would be able to load it & play. I once used Modular to emulate an Organ chip I had for my first 8 bit computer back in 1979, including being able to simulate the aliasing noise. Used 3 oscillators with the root output set full, then first and second octaves or fifths at lower output.

Amazing what you can get from just additive sine waves ( eg no FM ) the whole B3 thang etc.

[dante]

Ok here it is. I managed to isolate the click - it wasn't the 'click' synth at all. It was drawbars 2 and 3 mainly. All I did was give the Mod Envelope a slight delay on the drawbar 2 and 3 synths and the click is now gone.

I also managed to route the pitch bend on my keyboard to the treble rotor speed and the mod wheel to the bass rotor speed, then recorded these controllers on a sperate track, so it aint live and very experimental.... Thick As A SeligB3...

But I tell you what - I'll be using this B3 thang now wherever I get the chance - just the thing to give some edge / authenticity to rock mixes.

Regards Modular, it appears I missed that when rebuilding system on new PC last year, so I'll dig around & resurect that !!! I think I've only got Modular 2 though...

[dante]

Exploring even further reveals that I can assign pitch bend wheel to set the maximum speed of the rotors, while modulation wheel controls the acceleration speed at which the rotors reach that maximum speed !!!

This is damn good control...so now I'm busy retrofitting this Organ into deserving mixes....

I'm impressed. This whole instrument/rotor would have been bypassed by me if not for your explorations JAV, so I'm eternally greatfull....

As a footnote I'm interested though how close the sound of 1 rotating speaker can be replicated over 2 non-rotating speakers. I'd imagine all the wall bounce reflections would be totally different.