Cockos reaper

[Bud Weiser]

But it seems possible to edit 14bit midi control !?!? This would be brilliant !

It's a bit hard to change completly my habits but I believe it's worth it.

Yes and no ...
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=141728
You´re at that point you should google and ask in the Reaper forums because so much comes from the users alone.
Most solutions you´ll find in the forum (or files section like the Reaper Stash).

Reaper and Kontakt ...
http://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1443459

Bud

[dawman]

ScopeSync is a great mate for Reaper as well.

W-ellis has tested it and I have had no problems making connections as the routing is pretty deep.
It isn't easy thinking in terms of Destinations and Sources though.

I am trying to get my head around using Bidule as a VST inside of Reaper, which means I now have 3 x routing apps to consider, but @ 48k 128 samples, and 2.4 msec. it works good.
Just need to learn as much about ScopeSync and BC Modular as possible, as that is the icing on the cake.

[Bud Weiser]

I would classify it more as an entry level (with guts) type DAW.

What ?

Many Cubendo, Protools and Logic users jumped on Reaper meanwhile !

The price is right.

No, it´s a steal for what it does.

But it's lacking in a lot of features ...

Which ?

... and bundles that you get with the more commercial offerings.

Well, most stuff bundled w/ the DAW apps is "so-so" or mediocre.
I rarely use the instruments and sample library/presets stuff which comes w/ Studio One b.t.w..
When I ditched Cubase SX3,- it was also not the king of the hill in regards of included plugins and it was still an expensive application.

I´d say Apple Logic Pro X is the most complete DAW when it comes to content today, but it has it´s price,- you need the Apple computer as the hardware dongle and you need it every few years new.
There´s also a big disadvantage when getting a DAW app which comes "w/ everything included" ...
The users really use that stuff,- ALL do.
It makes projects pretty compatible, but it makes the user/musician exchangable too.
All the results sound more or less the same.

I didn't spend more than a day or two investigating it (both times). That was enough for me.

Which is eventually the reason for how you evaluate Reaper.

Reaper has so many advantages over the other existing DAWs.
Small footprint installer, very fast install, portable install on USB stick p.ex., usage of both installs independent and simultaneously on the same machine.
Buy once and install on as many computers as you like.
Link computers over network (CAT5) and stream audio across computers that way.
Extremely fast startup time (very important for live usage !)
Plugin firewalling ...

only a few, there are many more ...

And no, I´m not a fanboy,- but I have a damn lot of respect for that developer team around Reaper.

Cockos started as a 1-man company 10 years ago and the app grew so fast we now can expect there´s much more to come and even it becomes a more and more complex task all might happen as quick as before because now they are 4 guys.
IIRC, the developer of the SWS extensions is now part of the Reaper development team,- and the SWS extensions are essential.
You also find some of the Stillwell plugins in Reapers (JS-) plugin list ...http://www.stillwellaudio.com/
Schwa is in the Reaper developer team too.

Now compare that to Steinberg w/ a big building and hundreds of employees and the Apple Logic team.
Both DAW apps started already in the 80s as pure MIDI program and far before it was thinkable to add audio recording and editing.
No wonder that Cubendo and Logic both come w/ the best and most complete MIDI implementation.
But Reaper´s audio engine and ASIO efficiency is often better than both mentioned above,- and MIDI got lots of love too meanwhile while there´s also progress w/ video and more.

Reaper started as an audio program and MIDI was added later,- similar to Protools, but also Protools´ initial release was in 1991 already.

Cockos was founded in 2004 and Reaper's initial PC-only preview release was in December 2005 ...

These guys are extremely fast as also innovative.

Bud

[Nestor]

I remember the days when, at least, about 20 discussions arise about Cubase versus Logic, and we all laugh and enjoy learning and sharing different points of view.

About 20 years ago, there was still the idea that a Mercedes Benz was one of the best cars in the industry, now, nobody will say so… and if you talk with a car mechanic engineer or a car expert in test, etc., they will tell you that there are many excellent cars today that come from everywhere in the world and from quite different visions and trademarks.

Well, the same happens today with DAWs, they are all pretty much advanced and it is ridiculous to say that Logic is better or worse than Cubase. Or that Protools is the choice of the professionals, and Cubase and Logic are for beginners. All this is over, is only a far cry from reality…

All mayor DAWs are extraordinarily powerful pieces of software, and they have all learned from each other too.

The difference must be searched and found, not in regard to the DAW, but in regard to the user, to the musician. There are different minds, different ways of feeling and understanding, and so some DAWs suits better one person than another, that is all the mystery.

In my case, even if I am an advocate to learning new technologies and a restless person by nature when talking about music creation, I found in Cubase a perfect match, a soul mate for life, perfect because it matches very well my own logical thinking ways. It is most probably that almost everything you can do with one of these DAWs, you can do with the others. The matter is “how you like to do them yourself”. I like to do them the way Cubase does.

I once installed Logic and ended up joking with you guys, saying that Logic to me, was completely “illogical”.

Now, there is the COMFORT zone there, which is very important too. If a person wants to learn a new DAW completely, seriously and deeply, I admire the move and support it, it’s great for the fun, giving up comfort. In that respect, I am not that daring, I have learned Cubase so much that I can do anything with it, and I am not ready to let it go, I would not start at this point, a new learning curve, I have everything I need with this amazing creation I admire so much.

Conclusion: There are two clear parameters to be considered for changing to a different DAW:

*Who you are, what you do and how you do it
*How comfortable are you with your current DAW, are you ready to give up the many years of learning efforts?

For me, theses questions are answered as follows:
*Cubase is my DAW wife, the woman of my dreams
*Totally comfortable, I don’t need or want to learn anything new, this, because music is in fact, my final goal.

[JoPo]

Working on a different way of pitchshifting : looking for something like Variaudio...
This new way gives me much more satisfaction : It'm using Elastique 3 with nice Reaper curves, it's excellent.
Have a look :

pitchshift.jpg (143.83 KiB) Viewed 2898 times

I miss just the (Variaudio) pitch key (or piano roll) view, now. luckily, I'm not deaf !

And I enjoy more and more !


-> Nestor, of course you're right ! As usual, it's all subjective. But my purse ! This is absolutely objective and concrete ! Normaly, what is more expensive is what has better quality (like german car ) and I don't see any quality miss in Reaper, I'm speaking about the sound, for a DAW, the rumour says that it's the most important thing. On the opposit, the quality is excellent : for example, I never understood why there is no such automation curves in Cubase.

On the other hand, I don't find any midi CC curve drawing tool in midi editor (!) ; but I think the midi CC can be automation curves easily in Reaper.

[Bud Weiser]

On the other hand, I don't find any midi CC curve drawing tool in midi editor (!) ; but I think the midi CC can be automation curves easily in Reaper.

User Manual Chapter 12.10, pages 215 & 216 ...



Bud

[Bud Weiser]

And I enjoy more and more !

You will even more when reading THIS ...
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=152250

It goes faster than I expected,- and now we get VST3 and w/ the upcoming "pre" and "RC" versions eventually also ARA already.



Bud

[braincell]

But if you like midi (as I do) reaper would suck.

[krizrox]

Interresting point of view. Which DAW do you use ?
For the moment, I'm still discovering it. I don't see much missing feature for the way I build my tracks.
What I like in Reaper is the do-it-yourself side. A bit like Scope.
It seems that to reach a purpose, there is several ways. I like Scope because since 15 years, I still have things to discover and learn.
The pitch shifting as I show in the jpg of this thread doesn't convinced me. So now, I'm going to try another way.

It's true that to change radicaly his way of building DAW music project, there is a high step to cross and I must say that sometimes it's irritating. And it's also true that the ethic and Reaper philosophy are important in my decision to try something else than Cubase. I don't think Reaper is a DAW for beginners (or I'm really crap ).

Steinberg ask me to much money. And I made the mistake to buy Wavelab 7 (a real liquid shit). And those apps become really heavy. If Cubase crashes, I must restart my pc and reload everything -> 10 or 12 mn ; and the idea I had returns where it comes from (I don't know where it is, otherwise, I would bring it back !).

I didn't take my final decision yet, I take advantage of my holidays to make a long test.

I currently use Samplitude. Prior to that it was Sonar, and prior to that it was TripleDAT. These are the three main recording programs I've used since the mid-90's. Along the way, I've eyeballed most of the other major brands on the market (including Reaper) and saw no reason to jump ship. Reaper might have feature advantages in a few areas, but all the daws have advantages and disadvantages over each. Reaper had nothing that made me go "wow" other than the low entry price and the small footprint. It's just another recording app as far as I'm concerned. I would probably give it more than a passing glance if more people were going "wow" but in 15 or so years of running my studio no one (and I do mean no one), has ever mentioned it or asked me about it. No one ever asked me what I think about it. I've never read a review or comment from anyone that suggests it's significantly better than anything else. I'm not aware of any studio businesses in my neck of the woods that use it. I don't see it showing up in any of the audio schools. I mean... after all this time, where is it? If it's that great, where is it? It's been around for too long to be simply ignored. Truth be told, I've heard the name GarageBand mentioned here in my studio way more than Reaper. Reaper looked a lot like TripleDAT to me for some reason. The plug-ins that came bundled with Reaper reminded me of those Windows 95-era TripleDAT plug-ins that I paid $2,000 for lol. Samplitude had/has really nice mixing and mastering features and tools. Vastly superior to Sonar (for example).

[Bud Weiser]

I prefer to be out of the discussion now.
I hope JoPo will be satisfied w/ Reaper.
Not everyone needs all the featuristis of the leading DAW manufacturers´ products.
I had the impression JoPo wants saving money,- like me, and Reaper is a great alternative in that case.

Bud

[astroman]

imo Reaper is a solid and powerful system with well deserved reputation
not my cup of tea, tho...
funny thing is that all the bliss which now attracts people just drove me away from it
I was right about licensing plain, simple version 1 but then came #2 with the routing and all that
too complicated... me thought 'I have Scope for routing...'
so I signed with RML and SAW Studio
regarding Scope that was quite a shot in my own foot - so to say
that engine is so smart on it's own that realtime data exchange with Scope was practically impossible
(at least I never got it running in a convenient way - it worked completely different than expected)
that was some surprise... but then - it wasn't a show stopper either
I'm tracking with VDAT or the iPad, most FX recorded on the fly
then I cut the sh*t in SAW and THAT's the deal - the most non-annoying piece of software and fastest cutter around

a DAW is a tool and shall fit the job, no more, no less
(but from a technical point the dudes at Cockos are pretty smart)

cheers, Tom

[dawman]

But if you like midi (as I do) reaper would suck.

Why is that..?

It plays back automation data with better accuracy than any DAW I have.
We use it just for audio and MIDI playback, and custom workflow choices.

With other DAWs they are so bloated you can't run automation tracks of lighting data and dimmer cues with MIDI FX, and instrument automations.

As far as making composing easier by bells and whistles, yes, as I see the kids over there crying about having to make their own coffee on a regular basis.

Only real men use Reaper..................

[braincell]

The Logical Editor + Macros in Cubase is most powerful. I am sorry that most people are not using it but oh well. If Reaper is adequit for your midi, great news for you I guess. You can save a lot of money.

[JoPo]

I am very satisfied with Reaper !
More time I spend on it more I believe I'm going to keep it.

The routing is not so complicated, it's surprising and it opens a wide possibility field. As I already said, the do-it-yourself way of it pleases me ; it's like Scope !

There is still feature I miss (or didn't find yet) :
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=152322
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=152321

and I must say that if they are not implemented, it's going to be damn annoying for me !

But there is so much positive things that the balance is on the right side for Reaper.

[JoPo]

The Logical Editor + Macros in Cubase is most powerful. I am sorry that most people are not using it but oh well. If Reaper is adequit for your midi, great news for you I guess. You can save a lot of money.

Cubase Logical editor (which I used and is brother, the transformer midi fx) is easily replaceable in Reaper and Cubase macro are absolutely ridiculous in comparison to Reaper's ones !! It's really not a good argument !

I found Reaper let people inventing solutions to reach a purpose when Cubase has one special feature, I feel less "stuck" with Reaper : I have several ways to find an issue and reach the goal (again like in Scope), this pleases me.

[braincell]

In Reaper you have to use a programming language for advanced midi features. That is ridiculous, also I don't want to go digging around the internet when I need to do something, also Reaper is notorious for working badly with third party plugins and Reaper has known bugs unfixed for years on end.

[JoPo]

?? Uh ??
Programming language ?

Uh.jpg (33.69 KiB) Viewed 2804 times

Bug ? In computer ? It would be the first time !

[JoPo]

As I start to show my Reaper adventure here, I come back with my conclusion.
After a real try, I'm going to make some people happy and disapointing other... I do not manage to become used to Reaper ! I'm fed up to have to create a lot of tracks to to make things quite rather simple and basic.
There is a lot of very good things in Reaper but as incredible as it could be, there is not the shortcuts I need for working fast in my way of working..! I don't feel comfortable.

But I'm keeping the midi fx, the midi lfo, midi converter (absolutely excellent : you can do much more than with Cubase transformer, working with 14bit midi data...etc...), the midi chord and all the other are essential, now. The Cubase midilfo is lame.

But I was wrong : Steinberg ask for 299€ (not 200) to update Cubase ! So I keep the 5.5 version and I'll wait for some Steinberg special offer, but it seems they NEVER make such offer !

Voilà.

[dawman]

Reaper is a great DAW to playback MIDI Projects exported from Cubase.
But since I rarely need MIDI editing, I end up just doing most of my stuff in Reaper.

When I really get out there on Heroin, Cocaine and Jager, I do get a little sloppy, so Cubase really comes in handy then.
But I wait until I am straighter to edit too, as sometimes everything quantized wrong sounds great at the moment, then looking back later, I always say I gotta stop doing drugs.
Maybe 2015 might be that year....

[JoPo]

Yes, I edit a lot of midi tracks, I don't play keyboard enough well..
Cubase and now all the midi fx I bring back from reaper is excellent for this.

I don't know and don't find what is jager, something to drink ? To smoke ? To eat ? To inject ? To sniff ? To insert somewhere ? I'd like to try when I'll have finished this vodka bottle in which I put some weed, good for the taste, merci.
Everything is fine as long as I can see the screen and feel I'm still have fingers at the tip of my hands which are stick to the rest of my body, after that I play wrong notes but I sleep very well.