Brexit

[Nestor]

Interesting.... to say the least!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yTWtm-mUJE

[hubird]

Interesting.... to say the least!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yTWtm-mUJE

Very interesting...posted on youtube by 'the Truth Channel'...

Wiki:
The Truth Channel" (also called as "The Truth TV") is a religious broadcast station of the Members Church of God International (MCGI), an international Christian organization with headquarters in the Philippines.

Jezus!...

[garyb]

while you are absolutely correct hubird, to call into question the character of those sources, it has nothing to do with whether or not the info is correct. more in question is the meaning of things. this is not an endorsement of any particular idea. truly open mided people who are only looking for truth, don't only listen to those that confirm their bias. of course, i'm aware that all people who take a side do this.

[hubird]

It's ME who always took the effort to provide good content and arguments.
I tried to explain the difference between the political situation of Europe and the US, etc. etc.
At some point one can only show where the hatred comes from, and that's what I do.

It's said already by others also that it's impossible to argue with Nestor, and to some degree often also with you.
Now you are me telling that 'only truly open minded people are looking for truth??

He's on a mission ('I will go on and on and on untill people start believing'), it's abuse of Planetz.
John only needed a few words: not on my venue, stop that thread.
Where do you stand?

Isn't this enough for you:
'barred from entering the United Kingdom, for allegedly "seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts'.

- You want me to donate to a politically hijacked forum with visible or hardly hidden support by the moderator?

(Sorry for sounding harsh, obviously I'm ready with it.)

[Nestor]

In the movie “The Matrix”, one of the member’s crew who plays as a traitor said: “Ignorance is bliss”. Mmmmm well…, this may work well for a movie character, but in real life ignorance is a disgrace.

To be open is essential, certainly, but “REALITY” does not have sides… only “OUR MINDS” have sides. It is within the human brain and being that duality is born. The division between two possible conclusions, the polarization into a particular side of things it is only and exclusively a “mental thing”, but it is not related to reality. Reality has not sides, it is what it is.

In the other hand, if you get so much evidence and absolutely clear demonstrations of how things work and are in the world, doubting all these proofs and confirmations becomes a self-protection choice which is related to “EMOTION” and not to “LOGICAL THOUGHT” and least of all, to “REALITY”. When emotions and “personal human concerns” come into play and interfere between reality and you, what you get is a distorted version of it, obviously, something you shape to your own personal emotional needs.

Hundreds of millions of people are very weak, emotionally feeble when facing whatever it might be that destabilize their believes and state of comfort. Most people in fact do deliberately “DREAM” about life, but do not have a clue about what is going on within or without, and they even prefer to keep in their deep state of hypnosis to not suffer, which is understandable, but not an intelligent choice if what you want is to really, really “KNOW”. It is, definitely, a choice that every person has to do. My personal choice is to way up!

Expressed it in a different way and going straight to the point: THE NONE APCEPTANCE OF REALITY IS A PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM. If you are not able to overcome your own psychology, you will never ever see things in a “NEW” way, you will only see life through the filters of your unique preconceptions, believes, fears, traumas, sensibilities, complexes, culture, learning experience, and the influence of your friends, family and coworkers. If you don’t get out of yourself, you are trapped into a jail of perceptions which is, in fact, very narrow, as it is in every one of us. But with the proper methodology, you can get out of yourself and become much more universal, so to say, so to understand way, I mean… WAYYYYYY more than what you are and can in this narrow state of mind.

[Nestor]

A great quote from Socrates tells:

There is only one good, wisdom.
There is only one evil, ignorance.

[garyb]

It's ME who always took the effort to provide good content and arguments.
I tried to explain the difference between the political situation of Europe and the US, etc. etc.
At some point one can only show where the hatred comes from, and that's what I do.

It's said already by others also that it's impossible to argue with Nestor, and to some degree often also with you.
Now you are me telling that 'only truly open minded people are looking for truth??

He's on a mission ('I will go on and on and on untill people start believing'), it's abuse of Planetz.
John only needed a few words: not on my venue, stop that thread.
Where do you stand?

Isn't this enough for you:
'barred from entering the United Kingdom, for allegedly "seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts'.

- You want me to donate to a politically hijacked forum with visible or hardly hidden support by the moderator?

(Sorry for sounding harsh, obviously I'm ready with it.)

oh, the outrage!
someone pissing in your cornflakes again?

you both believe what you believe. i find bits of the truth in both arguments. i don't care what the U.K. government thinks, but i'm not dismissing the fact that the guy is rather unsavory. i do not agree with with all of the details that Nestor is trumpeting, but i also don't think that you are a paragon of truth. it's just an internet forum. the game won't be won or lost based on what is said and done here. i live in a country that was setup by people who overthrew their government. i don't find people who wish to abolish any particular authority to be bad people, automatically. what i object to is the knee-jerk behavior on all sides. we all get it.

i think you need some english lessons because you certainly misunderstood my post. it all depends on who you think people are. i continually think that Nestor is a good person, even if he's let the internet get the best of him. the issues that he's concerned about are real issues. i also believe that you are a good person, even though there's that allergy towards distrust of "authority" and even though you certainly work for the "powers that be".

stop trying to muddy the waters with "John did" and "moderators should" and other nonsense. if you don't like the discussion, just stop posting and it will go away. nobody has committed a crime.
yet.

as you can see, it's mostly you and Nestor going back and forth. you are a vital part of the whole controversy. it can't continue without you.

[hubird]

in fact it's you who's the problem.
you don't know how to act as a moderator.

[garyb]

no, you don't like how i act as a moderator.
i don't have to live up to your standards any more than you need to live up to mine.

we've been through this before. i'm not paid to do this. you are not my boss.

good job changing the subject!

[hubird]

good job changing the subject!

that's not true, my words are the crux.

I have two points:
1. a moderator shouldn't exploit his personal (political or other private) views, or at least he shouldn't argue with it.
2. a moderator has to prevent the forum from systematically being abused by others for personal systematically expressed missions.

You are a good person too, but you fail regarding both axiomatic claims.

The failures are caused by the same factor: you can't keep your personal political ideas private because you are full of it.
You abuse Planetz in your public function, along with mister simple mind whom you protect till death.

I still like you tho...but your the moderator, I can't help.


- If I would donate (which I'd like to) you would do your politics on my venue...
With John I say, forget it!

[garyb]

c'mon, i know you don't like me. i don't mind, because we really don't know each other(and you always misinterpret my words).

again, if you don't like the subject, stay off of the thread. it's one small thread on a small message board. relax.

this forum is "off topic". if evangelism spreads beyond a thread or two, action will be swift and sure. that's how i roll. anyway, "moderator" is not some holy mission. if valis wants to delete the thread or remove me as a mod, he certainly can, but he has participated in some of these types of discussions that you hate, too. chill.

[hubird]

again, if you don't like the subject, stay off of the thread.

That's my advise to you, the moderator.
Let the community discuss.
You are here for keeping an eye on the flow and on abuse, not to determine the (sensible) discussions.

Evangelism is going on for many years already.
John didn't know it, and when he discovered it he stopped it immediately.
You, the new moderator, are part of the evangelism...imagine.

[garyb]

what are you talking about?
why have you hijacked the thread to talk about me?
you are evangelizing for your preferred behavior.
don't talk about me. i am not your employee.

again, i do not agree with all of Nestor's conclusions, but i haven't seen him abusing the site by putting his thoughts into a single thread in the off-topic forum. i'm not upset with you disagreeing with Nestor. i'm not going to fight with you.

check how long i've been here. i am the community as much as anyone else is. complain about me somewhere else.

by the way, this is Matt's site, not John's. it hasn't been John's site for a while.

now we have bumped the thread that you hate several times. good. more people can see it and think about what they do and don't agree with.

[siriusbliss]

Classic diversion Huberd.

We know better.

The same global collapse of antiquated political systems is happening all over the world.

We all see it.

Maybe the main difference is that many of us don't tie our personal identity to one or another illusion.

G

[Nestor]

You can see I am not fighting, I am posting ideas, that's it. Ideas in which I deeply believe, it is not just talking, it is much more than that for me, they are serious concerns about the world.

What is going on now, the way my posts are being understood... is pretty amazing for me! This shows me how real it is the fact that these things have become “emotional maters” that are being perceived through a “particular psychological pattern”, not related with reality. The problem, right here and right now, it is a wrong psychological approach!

It is absurd to be angry with somebody who cares about the world, ridiculous… I feel totally cool, in spite, very calm within myself… that’s what I can say.

I am not and feel not related to a conflict in this thread right now, I am separated from this particular approach going on. I see it like, for instance, when a dog keeps barking at your door, well…, I am inside the house, quite far away from the door, I don’t even bother about the noise, and I am making my own music, so there is no place for it.

What I say, my latest thoughts, if you read them well and try to understand the deep meaning they have, without dismissing them by default, without a preconditioned bad will, you will actually see that they are far from being silly or superficial ideas. I consider myself to be a serious person, and I am a serious person.

[Sounddesigner]

3 terrorist attacks occurred in the USA alone yesterday. 1 in New York City, 1 in New Jersey and 1 in Minnesota.

The knife attacker in Minnesota is a Radical Islamist and of a community that has not fully assimilated here in the USA (The large Samolia community in Minnesota). He stabbed 8 people in a Mall before being shot dead by a off-duty cop. Their are many radikal Preachers in that Somalia community and many radical jihadists from that community have been captured or lost their lives fighting for ISIS and other groups. Many of these radicals are second generation immigrant offspring, meaning they are the children of immigrants. Bad belief-systems are hereditary.

The New York and New Jersey attacks were done by Pressure-Cooker bombs (These are ISIS and Alqaeda taught Methods for weapons-of-mass-destruction tho the attacks haven't proven to be ISIS or Alqaeda related yet; still seems inspired by them on some level tho) and Pipe bombs.

Atho noone was killed but the terrorist in Minnesota from these terrororism attacks many people however are seriously wounded.

Our Leaders are forcing MASSIVE amounts of illegal immigrants and refugees upon us knowing there will be a 'Clash of Civilizations' and poverty/crime increase to undermine our fundamental Principles and Pillars that hold us up and keep us strong as a Nation. For political reasons they slowly change our very identity as a nation threw this "Social re-Engineering". Our culture, religion, and constitution gets in their way so they slowly whittle away at these things with 'Social Re-Engineering'. One cannot sanely deny the problems of unnatural-immigration. USA, Great Britain, etc have made it to be mighty Nations off their very identity i.e. culture, religion, constitution. This new Liberal World Order is producing obvious major decline in great nations wich are nations that had great success off their fundamental principles. You can easily see what that Liberalism does is destructive when you look on a smaller scale at cities like Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, San Fransisco, Baltimore, etc wich have been ran by the left Liberal Democrats for many decades and are cities suffering from many serious pathologies. I'm in Milwaukee and I see first-hand the harm these liberal policies cause.

This isn't just Liberal bashing cause in my mind BOTH major parties have screwed up in one way or another it's just Liberal Democrats have all the power now so they get most of the blame (they are the local Mayors in severely destitute Cities, the National President, the Supreme Court majority, college Professors, trial attorneys, Hollywood, NBA Basketball league, Paypal, Disney World, Apple, etc etc). The biggest blame naturally goes to the ones in charge. They keep telling us that our way is wrong and that their so-called 'Progressive/Modern' way is best but the results say otherwise. The 'Progessive' way is not 'progress' at all but actually regressive and destructive as evident when looking at all the poverty and crime in Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc and now on a National and International scale. Nothing Modern or Progressive about these deceptive ideologies that masquerade as some positive evolution/improvement of mankind. The 'PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING'. They just get us deeper into quagmires from their quackery and come with more scapegoats, rationalization, obfuscation and false-justifications as things get more worser out here.

Clash of Civilizations: Samuel P. Huntington had it right back in 1992 when he said Culture abd Religious identity will be the main reasons for warfare in the future.

Here's a Wikipedia quote and link to "Clash of Civilizations" .

" The Clash of Civilizations (COC) is a hypothesis that people's cultural and religious identities will be the primary source of conflict in the post-Cold War world. It was proposed by political scientist Samuel P. Huntington in a 1992 lecture[1] at the American Enterprise Institute, which was then developed in a 1993 Foreign Affairs article titled "The Clash of Civilizations?",[2] in response to his former student Francis Fukuyama's 1992 book, The End of History and the Last Man. Huntington later expanded his thesis in a 1996 book The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order."

For more of the article go here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations


EDITED

[valis]

A few things:

1. GaryB is correct that while he is the moderator, ownership and stewardship of these forums has passed to yours truly. And you can trust I have indeed been reading along (mostly silently). I do not pore over every post nor do I weigh and balance every response.

2. This section of PlanetZ is 'Off Topic', and while I will admit to eeing a bit of an escalation in a few selection discussions here by a small minority of select parties, I have yet to see anything that stands out as a truly threatening post or attack.

3. Much like other well known 'social networks' (FB) on 'the intertubes', arguing with people here with the sole goal of changing their mind somehow is probably a fruitless effort in many (most?) cases, and it's wasting nothing from anyone smart enough to refrain from participating (or even reading). Discussions where people might continue to expound their viewpoints on the other hand is condoned and even encouraged, as is posting cat images, posting your latest DIY buildout of an LED adorned fantasy castle for your children, or anything else that is "Off Topic".

4. What I will personally not tolerate (and I have not seen any of this to date) is direct threats, calls to violent action, attempts to con and or elicit funds, blackmail or slander a person's true identity with unfounded and baseless accusations, and so on. The same goes for anything that might draw activity that threatens the security of this forum or the server it is hosted on (no FBI visits, DDOS's or etc are going to be looked lightly upon). That being said, I also am in now way ever going to be convinced to turn over anyone's identity to ANY third party without very VERY good reason.

5. Lastly, I am not synonymous with John Cooper. With the fullest respect for the traditions that started this place, I am also a busy person and have no time for babysitting. So that means I tend to be a very 'hands off' steward. I expect people to do their best to resolve difficulties and find stable footholds for their factions on their own, without the intervention of Deus Ex Machina. This is NOT as Laissez-faire as it might seem, rather I expect you to empower yourselves and only resort to calling in the motherships in situations that leave no other option. If someone finds that a moderator here is acting out of course, then by all means escalate that up and I will review it in due time. Also you'll note I referenced factionism, and empowerment, more on this below.

So, if Nestor feels he's gaining something with one or two threads where he continues to espouse (what might seem from one perspective to be) his own personal fantasy castle, what harm is that causing?. If Nestor (or others) were invading every other threads in this area, and especially if it was spilling over to other areas of the forums, then that would warrant immediate action. As things stand now, I am hoping that you lot are pursuing semi-meaningful exchanges and gaining *something* from them, otherwise why bother continuing to participate? This has been stated already, and at least on this point I agree. In fact, I see hubird attempting to do HIS best to point out what he sees as fallacious, and "help" Nestor and others out where he seems to think they are under illusions. This is also fine with me. I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE a lively debate:

Rather than decreeing my own personal set of values & determinations to somehow be paramount (dictatorship, or at the very least oligarchy via ownership), I actually expect this community to evolve as humanity always has. Via cooperation, struggle, communication and friction. We need to be dynamic enough to continue to be ALIVE here. A bit of arguing never hurt anyone, and I have *certainly* participated on this front before myself (search the phrase "global warmongering" if you want to see my own personal biases and conceits at play).

Addendum: In regards to donations to these forums, I and I alone am the host, maintainer and recipient of any donations. So no forum moderator can either see any personal information for anyone from said donation(s) nor in any way benefit(s) from them beyond the fact that these forums continue to exist (well they would anyway, which I addressed in my donation post).

[Nestor]

Very cool explanation about your points on how you will lead Planet Z Valis, thank you for taking the time to clearly express these points to us, they are highly coherent to me

I am pretty sure we will be talking more and more about all these things happening around the world, because this is only the beginning of the expected moves. Yes, I do SERIOUSLY believe in what I have said, in all of it!

[Nestor]

3 terrorist attacks occurred in the USA alone yesterday. 1 in New York City, 1 in New Jersey and 1 in Minnesota.

The knife attacker in Minnesota is a Radical Islamist and of a community that has not fully assimilated here in the USA (The large Samolia community in Minnesota). He stabbed 8 people in a Mall before being shot dead by a off-duty cop. Their are many radikal Preachers in that Somalia community and many radical jihadists from that community have been captured or lost their lives fighting for ISIS and other groups. Many of these radicals are second generation immigrant offspring, meaning they are the children of immigrants. Bad belief-systems are hereditary.

The New York and New Jersey attacks were done by Pressure-Cooker bombs (These are ISIS and Alqaeda taught Methods for weapons-of-mass-destruction tho the attacks haven't proven to be ISIS or Alqaeda related yet; still seems inspired by them on some level tho) and Pipe bombs.

Atho noone was killed but the terrorist in Minnesota from these terrororism attacks many people however are seriously wounded.

Our Leaders are forcing MASSIVE amounts of illegal immigrants and refugees upon us knowing there will be a 'Clash of Civilizations' and poverty/crime increase to undermine our fundamental Principles and Pillars that hold us up and keep us strong as a Nation. For political reasons they slowly change our very identity as a nation threw this "Social re-Engineering". Our culture, religion, and constitution gets in their way so they slowly whittle away at these things with 'Social Re-Engineering'. One cannot sanely deny the problems of unnatural-immigration. USA, Great Britain, etc have made it to be mighty Nations off their very identity i.e. culture, religion, constitution. This new Liberal World Order is producing obvious major decline in great nations wich are nations that had great success off their fundamental principles. You can easily see what that Liberalism does is destructive when you look on a smaller scale at cities like Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, San Fransisco, Baltimore, etc wich have been ran by the left Liberal Democrats for many decades and are cities suffering from many serious pathologies. I'm in Milwaukee and I see first-hand the harm these liberal policies cause.

This isn't just Liberal bashing cause in my mind BOTH major parties have screwed up in one way or another it's just Liberal Democrats have all the power now so they get most of the blame (they are the local Mayors in severely destitute Cities, the National President, the Supreme Court majority, college Professors, trial attorneys, Hollywood, NBA Basketball league, Paypal, Disney World, Apple, etc etc). The biggest blame naturally goes to the ones in charge. They keep telling us that our way is wrong and that their so-called 'Progressive/Modern' way is best but the results say otherwise. The 'Progessive' way is not 'progress' at all but actually regressive and destructive as evident when looking at all the poverty and crime in Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc and now on a National and International scale. Nothing Modern or Progressive about these deceptive ideologies that masquerade as some positive evolution/improvement of mankind. The 'PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING'. They just get us deeper into quagmires from their quackery and come with more scapegoats, rationalization, obfuscation and false-justifications as things get more worser out here.

Clash of Civilizations: Samuel P. Huntington had it right back in 1992 when he said Culture abd Religious identity will be the main reasons for warfare in the future.

Here's a Wikipedia quote and link to "Clash of Civilizations" .

" The Clash of Civilizations (COC) is a hypothesis that people's cultural and religious identities will be the primary source of conflict in the post-Cold War world. It was proposed by political scientist Samuel P. Huntington in a 1992 lecture[1] at the American Enterprise Institute, which was then developed in a 1993 Foreign Affairs article titled "The Clash of Civilizations?",[2] in response to his former student Francis Fukuyama's 1992 book, The End of History and the Last Man. Huntington later expanded his thesis in a 1996 book The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order."

For more of the article go here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations


EDITED

Wow... this is pretty much what I think... very sad indeed!

[garyb]

thanks valis!