Brexit

[valis]

Also I should mention, please don't take my words as condoning any particular viewpoint here. While I personally think all of history is a "clash of civilizations" and we're doing that on a more global scale than ever before, there are also arguments for the perspective that global conflict is at its lowest ever as well: https://medium.com/@angushervey/the-dec ... .6v1iqcw3b

So rather than just taking issue directly with statements, why am I not seeing the use of more counterpoints and a wider variety of examples beyond just opinions in this discussion...

[Nestor]

“War is at its lowest ebb ever”. “The world was a far more dangerous place when you were born”… Mmmmm, I don’t know which kind of interests are behind this particular article, most probably it is the human hope we all want to have in mankind, but this is such a fantastic mirage vision of the world today. It’s like if the writer was blindfolded, honestly...

This article is a little like telling the world the shore is very dry today, so you can walk along without any danger, that the waters of the ocean have not reacted with such violence in the last decades as they used to jump over several decades ago, so… we are save. Of course, the guy speaking does it with his back toward the ocean, while looking at the people he is talking about… The given prove for this idea of safety is that the sand is drying more and more, all the time, so war is calming down… This really is a false interpretation of the times going on. Meanwhile, as this good fellow narrates his story, behind him, we can clearly see coming the biggest tsunami ever seen in the history of mankind! It suffices to see where are the troops located in a world map, which armaments are where, how many people, soldiers, navies, admonitions, missiles, war planes, tanks, and the state of alert of the biggest, most armed countries in the world, to better understand the harshness of these times...

So “we have an evolutionary natural flow with all these problems?” Sorry, but this is so, so ridiculous. “Our institutions are getting better?” They are much, much better yes, in hiding the way they do their personal selfish businesses! What is he talking about? “After centuries of hard earned lessons, people are starting to understand that governance really matters?” This statement shows such an amazing state of unawareness, I am surprised! Democracy? Which democracy? As far as we still have people dying in the streets, no political system can be “properly” called a democracy, what I see is the most egoist world I have ever, and this IS accurate.

We have less war actions taken right now, yes, but this is not at all the point to look at today, the point is WHAT EXACTLY is getting ready, and that is the point!

This article is a narrow vision of war, that’s all, it states that there is less ware today than it used to exist long ago, true, that’s all we can agree with, but this is not the point, he should turn his back and face up what is going on in the ocean right now.

[valis]

Again, my personal stance is that history is a clash of cultures all the way down to the individual levels, and as far back as we have records. In no way does that article state that global Pollyanna-ism will solve all ills, it simply points out that armed conflict in the western hemisphere *between armed factions* and nation-states, is at an all time low. Perhaps this points to the conflict becoming more one of individual liberty versus the corporate oligarchies that are more & more the means through which power is wielded by 'those who have' against 'those who have less or naught'...? Or perhaps the means through which we're being deluded into 'us vs. them' Hegelian and dystopian paths is no longer based on large scale conflict or even the 'small war' that was so popular with the superpowers in the last century.... Or maybe it just *just an article*, and not another indicator of some overarching collusion behind the scenes to keep us spoon fed.

I also think revolution is also fraught with its own difficulties. While it does tend to achieve a periodic 'cleansing of the slate' in the areas affected, there hasn't yet been a revolution that effected a truly lasting change against what seems to be a product of human nature. The need to organize in groups around the biggest chest thumpers will always lead us down the same path... repeating arguments over & over may only make one appear to be a chest thumper also to those who aren't in agreement. Note the number of pages in this thread

[garyb]

personally, i think that the world throne has been established. the only wars now are the wars for position in the order. that and the personal vs. corporate struggle that was mentioned...

[Sounddesigner]

Also I should mention, please don't take my words as condoning any particular viewpoint here. While I personally think all of history is a "clash of civilizations" and we're doing that on a more global scale than ever before, there are also arguments for the perspective that global conflict is at its lowest ever as well: https://medium.com/@angushervey/the-dec ... .6v1iqcw3b

So rather than just taking issue directly with statements, why am I not seeing the use of more counterpoints and a wider variety of examples beyond just opinions in this discussion...

Valis i think you misunderstood the primary point that was being made in this thread. I was not talking about traditional wars from external conquers like Stallon, Hitler, etc but rather warfare from within. Within meaning our very own leaders attacking our democracy, culture, religion threw flooding us with illegal immigration, refugees, bad immigration policies and bogus Supreme Court rulings, starting bogus wars, etc etc. That warfare from within is actually not just the theme of the thread but actually the subject i.e. the Brexit wich is Great Britain leaving the EU cause the people were tired of the un-elected EU LEADERSHIP policies that many view as destroying their Nation and identity. This destruction is from a warfare of a different kind than your 'traditional wars' article , from the invasion of immigrants brought by our rogue leaders along with other methods to cause a Clash of Civilizations as culture, religion, democracy suffer from these things. Fascism, Socialism, etc could not prevail over USA on the battlefield when brought by external threats but has better success when brought by those who want it within.

Regarding the claims your article is making that wars are declining, i have several points to make against it threw-out this post. The metrics used are skewed in several ways IMV and i'll elaborate. One metric is looking at number of deaths per 100,000 people. Todays world population is more than triple that of 1940 so if the percentage of deaths per 100,000 were the same in my mind the world would be worser today since this is far more deaths for today due to the larger population (over 7 billion people on earth today compared to only 2.3 billion during World War 2). . Deaths by per 100,000 people only show better in a relative sense but not necessarily in a absolute sense wich also requires more info. But again my arguement in previous posts was never about traditional warfare increasing or decreasing greater than past but more about culture and spiritual warfare and bad leadership.


Traditional war on a major scale like World War 2 has not happened again due to the invention of the nuclear bomb . No powerfull nation is going to fight with full-force in a war with another powerfull nation cause it means 'mutual destruction' due to nuclear weapons and nobody wins with mutual destruction. Powerfull nations believed they could win against another powerfull nation with full-force in World War 1 and 2. This is why during the long Cold War neither the Soviet Union or the USA faught each other directly (neither shot guns or missiles at each other) cause it meant 'mutual destruction' if esculated. When both sides have nuclear bombs this changes the dynamics of a war. After winning the Cold War the USA caused the world to become unipolar (USA the only superpower) and that alone is a preventer and protector from many conflicts, but we are weakening as a nation and other nations are advancing as a nuclear threat due to our bad leadership (North Korea, Pakistan, India, China, and once again Russia are either just getting Nuclear or advancing with them). As the US gets weaker and other imperial Nations get stronger than more small scale wars start to occur wich is starting to happen now and what Russia's/China/Iran/North Korea's recent aggression portends.

Nester and i have been posting info and statistics on the latest ISIS and other radikal islamic attacks only to point out that our LEADERS policies have failed and the easily foreseeable and logical results are occuring wich are terrorist attacks/religious warfare, etc. The info we posted on recent terrorist attacks wasn't about external threats and traditional warfare. ISIS is not our biggest problem it's bad leadership. Bad leadership created ISIS with a bogus war in Iraq (where are those WMD's mister Bush?) and pulling out to quickly (bad move mister Obama!!) and ISIS has only reached our shores due to bad immigration policies from our leaders going back 40 years to this day (it's a lot harder to attack our country if we don't let them in). Bad policies are put forth to ultimately attack culture, religion, constitution cause those things get in the way of those who want a more secular-fascism, socialism/communism, aristocracy, etc wich is where we've been slowly heading as a nation as democracy and religion are slowly being whittled away at. You want to weaken the American people's ability to resist bogus ideologies you flood the country with illegal-immigrants and refugees of different culture/religion to undermine the peoples power and pillars of the nation i.e. culture/democracy/religion- basically water-down that wich is here. If the people's voting power gets in the way than you bring in a whole new voter base from abroad, if the people's religion gets in the way then you start filling the country with the opposite religion, etc etc. Unlike previous wars there is'nt any external threat that's worser than our own bad leadership internally wich leads to tragedy's/destruction of all sorts. One truly have to make the correct vote in upcomming elections to change things before it's too late.

The article you posted says that war is confined to the Middle East now partly because Russia and Ukrain have a ceasefire. Well a cease fire has'nt taken Russian troops out of Ukrain and Russia still is occupying it so a act of war is still occuring. This Russian aggression is bigger than the Ukrain conflict and started before it. There is a larger overall war that Russia is fighting to expand its empire and that war is very much alive. This expansion started before Ukrain with the annexation of parts of Georgia and Moldova there is obviously a pattern here that the writter of your article is overlooking. There is obviously a overall war seen as 'The Russian Expansion'. Dead bodies don't have to pile up by the millions for this to be a war and legitamit threat to all. Plus past wars can't be compared to current ones yet since the current are ongoing and have'nt finished yet.

The article says that war has decreased but terrorism has increased, well terrorism from external religion groups like ISIS/Al qaeda is war. It's religious war brought to our shores. This is'nt the traditional domestic terrorism and is done by a bigger army with a bigger agenda. A army that is also fighting us the traditional way on the battlefields of Iraq, Syria, etc and even occupies land like a sovereign government.

Clash of Civilizations: While i agree with you there has always been a Clash of Covilizations of some sort i must say that also it is VERY different now than before in American and World history. While all wars are ultimately about religion past American wars were 'officially' about something else. The Revolutionary war was 'officially' about Independance from Britain, the Civil War had both sides claiming God was on their side BUT the war was 'officially' about slavery/trade/etc, World War 2 was about Nazism and Fascism, and we had many wars that made up the Cold War wich was about Communism/Socialism. The USA has NEVER had religious warfare on its soil like it has now from ISIS/Al Qaeda/etc wich started with 9/11 attack. Radical Islam attacking us on USA soil is something that has just started happening, we've NEVER had wars that were 'officially' a spiritual war on our soil until now - THIS IS A FIRST and this is what Clash of Civilization is about that I meantioned i.e. religious war. Isis has brought spiritual warfare to the whole world as well wich IS ALSO A FIRST. ISIS is the most successfull terrorist organization of all time and utilizes modern technology such as the internet and videos for successfull WORLDWIDE recruitment. This world-wide religious warfare IS A FIRST. ISIS is about religious war but not in the historical sense for it is about a apocalyptic vision meaning they believe this is the endtimes and they have the proper fight for this times to bring back mohommad/the end. Many Christians believe this is the endtimes as well so religious war is a bit different now than before. You have to look at it from a spiritual sense not a historical worldly war sense for a spiritual lense is very valid since that is definitely what ISIS is all about. The Clash of Civilizations is different now since the war is 'officially' religious and greatest problems originate from within.

Even internal spiritual wars can lead to MASSIVE deaths comparable to World War 2 such as the bogus approval of abortions by our Supreme Court Leaders wich is a battle that many in the religious community lost. Abortion approval has lead to over 50 million babies being aborted since 1973 wich are death numbers very much equivalent to World War 2's. Couple that with all the other bad policies that bring about massive deaths from our leaders and the world has definitely gotten worser in the eyes of those fighting spiritual warfare. Also know that 50 million is for the USA alone if i had the statistics for more countries i'm sure the number would far surpass the 60 million deaths of World War 2. Also if i bring in other death statistics from Iraq war etc then today's times are far less safe than past. Destructive threats don't go away they only turn into different types of destructive threats.
Over 60 million died in World War 2 wich was about 3% of the worlds population at that time wich was 2.3 billion people - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

A quick google search will show you over 50 million babies aborted in USA alone since 1973 and over 7 billion population in today's world.

From the eyes of many of the religious community this world is not safer but worser than before, with just different type threats than yesterday.


EDITED

[Nestor]

Wow! What a clear explanation Sounddesigner it is this one, a very smart analysis of the situation to my understanding. To me, it is obvious that we are, in fact, in the worst period of our whole history, and in the most dangerous of them all.

I have seen what anger is capable of doing together with hate, and even if launching atomic bombs may be crazy, because you end up destroying your own backyard, I think this world is full of crazy enough people to go and do, even, such an unthinkable thing as destroying themselves as long as they can destroy their much hated enemies.

I tell you guys, I would give immediately my life in sacrifice, to be beheaded in a guillotine or burned in a tree, if I could stop all this mess and next upcoming wars, willingly I would give my life…

[valis]

Sorry I have not had time to fully review and respond, busy busy. However I would like to add 1 quick thought:

I tell you guys, I would give immediately my life in sacrifice, to be beheaded in a guillotine or burned in a tree, if I could stop all this mess and next upcoming wars, willingly I would give my life…

Here's the thing, we are all giving our lives to 'this mess' and 'this world' or whatever we choose to view our condition as, every moment of every day. We do that simply because here we are! Everything we do contributes in some minor (and sometimes major) way to the way this world is evolving and coalescing into the next future moments. Sure, some may say that all is for naught, and take the pain out of the existential angst via apathy and nihilism. Others might rant and rail against injustices as your bent of nature seems to (Nestor). Whatever the case, rest assured, we will all be beheaded (figuratively speaking) eventually, at least in this life and this body. So imho it's worth remembering that from time to time:

We give in every moment of every day whether we realize it or not.

Personally, I stopped 'giving myself' to fast food culture and supporting things that matter not to me long ago. While I would certainly welcome Deux Ex Machina, Aliens or a Messiah to come to us and lift us up magically, I do not await this to effect my change in this world. It seems to me that this world is ours to make of it what we will, and if we find ourselves at least aware enough of that condition to make slightly better contributions to the unfolding tapestry of history (personal and collective) than we would have otherwise, we burn more brightly for it.

And specifically to Nestor, were I you, I would funnel that drive that you display in your words here directly into your creative enterprises. Whether through words, lyrics, poetry or just fueling your music through the intentions you're displaying here, it will have far far more effect than a looping debate on a small corner of the musical discource on the textual web...

[Nestor]

I understand you Valis. I like the positive approach you give as an advice, it’s really smart and constructive.

Now, me writing here is a 0,0,1 % of my active life toward the problems of the world. Believe me, I work very hard contributing to the world, and I do it entirely and completely for free.

The loop you see, it is not what I experience, for me these many posts are not a loop, they are a clear progression of facts, I am not always telling the same thing, if you go through, you will see they are part and pieces of what is going on in the world.

In the other hand, I like very much your reactions, I mean, from smart answers like yours and many other contributors here, so I learn and enjoy their viewpoints and yours.

[Nestor]

The most stressed debate ever expected is coming in about one hour! Fireworks and missiles are predictable between the candidates words! I’ve never seen something more dangerous than today’s politics! What is going to actually happen from the next USA elections and on, where are we going to go now?

[Nestor]

Wow!

[Sounddesigner]

Another terroristic Mass killing just occurred in the USA at the Cascade Mall in Burlington wich is in Washington State. 5 people were shot to death last Friday by this terrorist.

The media and others are trying to portray the killer Arcan Cetin as just having mental problems like the false narratives they tried to come with before with other Islamist-terrorists but as more info comes in he seems to fit the profile of the typical Radical-Islamist. He IS A IMMIGRANT WHO RECENTLY CAME FROM TURKEY. On his blog are photo posts of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei . Like Islamist terrorists in past attacks he also was charged with crimes in the past before this Mall shooting wich themselves were signs of trouble to come.

I can't say 100% sure Arcan Cetin is a Radical Islamist but all the signs sure does state this so far. But for sure he is a immigrant from a radical region of the world and his photo's on his blog of Radical Islamists leaders shows he's fascinated at the least with them. I do suspect and believe he is a Radical-Islamists terrorist.

Our political leaders want to keep filling our nation with more immigrants/refugees from dangerouse countries with completely different culture/religion/political-systems knowing assimilation will not occur and conflicts would occur. These terrorist attacks are VERY frequent and will only get worse due to the taking in of countless refugees. I'm not anti-immigration I'm just against the way our leaders are doing it and the political reasons behind them doing it. This immigration policy and other policies are truly insanity and the mass-killings, constant protests, crime increases, poverty increase, etc all show the insanity of these policies.

Here's the link to the Mall shooting by Arcan Cetin wich just happened last Friday - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/26/ma ... eader.html

PS. The bomber in New York who did that horrible act a couple weeks ago did turn out to be a Radical Islamist.

[hubird]

Our political leaders want to keep filling our nation with more immigrants/refugees from dangerouse countries with completely different culture/religion/political-systems knowing assimilation will not occur and conflicts would occur.

That's why they are bombing those countries, to chase them people to us.
Executing millions of abortions on our own people does the rest.
Don't try to resist, their power is absolute, decisions are made.
The plan is already executed, day by day.

Why bothering when things are definite?
Accept it, and do hope you will die a natural death

[Nestor]

It is disgusting how these warmonger people are advancing their plans, at any cost. All over the place routers say: “the attack is not related to terrorism” and things of the like, this is the pattern repeated constantly every time there is an attack, while keeping people into deep ignorance waiting for the following one.

What is really, really sad, is that people in the streets are not paying attention at all to all these things, they just ignore every move…, immersed into their cellular phones and a hamburger to entertain their senses. This is crazy! Meanwhile, crime advances in their very faces! If there was something to be done, it was through the last decade, now it is just too late to stop the madness, they are in!

I totally agree that this is going to get worse, and when people in the streets search for a fix, they will realize they should have paid attention to these problems in a much earlier state, because they would not have even a chance to change the following circumstances, and the kingdom of tyranny that is coming soon to certain countries.

[hubird]

That's what I'm saying, why still bothering when things are definite anyway?

[garyb]

hubird, it's remarkable how much it irks you that someone might try to change their fate. even if it's pointless, a man has the right to try. sometimes what is pointless ends up being not pointless at all. this is just my personal observation, just like yours is how silly some people can be.

[hubird]

It's too late, for anybody
That's why I'm saying why would people still be bothering?

If there was something to be done, it was through the last decade, now it is just too late to stop the madness, they are in!

[...]when people in the streets search for a fix, they will realize they should have paid attention to these problems in a much earlier state, because they would not have even a chance to change the following circumstances, and the kingdom of tyranny that is coming soon to certain countries.

[dawman]

Hey Hillary says she won her first debate.

1 out of 19.....a loser in the real world.
But considered a huge success in most modern Goverments.

[hubird]

The one who will win the elections won the debates in retrospect

I liked the way she knew to provoke Trump to show himself as a pure taker:

'When Clinton criticized him for profiting from the misfortune of others in the housing crash, he defended himself: “That’s called business, by the way.”
When she hit him for stiffing his creditors, he said he’d just “taken advantage of the laws of the nation.”
When she attacked him as a tax-dodger who failed to shoulder his share of responsibility for the common good by paying federal income taxes, he replied: “That makes me smart.” '
(The Atlantic)

What she did really good was taking the lead just before and after the debate.
Quasi waving to someone in the public, shaking hands with Lester Holt, etc.
Trump looked dazzled on the stage after the show.

It's a pity that Bernie Sanders didn't make it as definite candidate.
Sanders against Trump: both claiming to support the victims of globalisation: passion against selfishness

[Nestor]

CRAZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-CRzgG2MsM

[hubird]

CRAZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-CRzgG2MsM

Another boring love song

Just read a poll in a national Dutch news paper about the question 'who would you wanne be the next president of the US, Clinton or Trump?'
Result: 67% Clinton, 17% Trump, rest doesn't know.
So here Trump isn't popular.