Brexit

[hubird]

Interesting read about the chances for Trump respectively Clinton:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ele ... c62484e56a

The 'hiding' voters for Trump are a possible game changer tho

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[garyb]

is this the real life?
is it just fantasy?

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[hubird]

apparently Trump is part of Washington.

The adorable deplorable think Trump will be good for them, but that's a huge mistake.
Trump only knows too good to exploit the anger and feelings of humiliation of them, but he's only good for himself.

Actually the Democrats are serving their home base not too bad: those who profit from the globalisation.
It is the Republican Party which lost the trust of it's former voters base.
Trump fills that gap, but this (false) revolution in the own house isn't favourable for the chances for the Republicans to win the elections, especially not where the Democrats are well organised.

I still think the interests of the cranked lower middle class were at Bernie Sanders, at least economically.
Their hate towards the Democrats, although understandable, keeps them from making the right choice.
If they let themselves lead by non-economical issues - like the gun factor and the traditional country and family values - instead of the hard economical interest, they pay the price, called a Trump who isn't there for them but for himself.

[garyb]

there you go believing fairy stories again.

i have news for you hubird, Washington is a club.

Bill Clinton Calls George Bush Senior "dad". this is told by Bill, Hillary, George, and Barbara. it's not just a rumor. the Clintons and the Bushes all are part of the same crew.

the ONLY reason that many Americans like Trump, is that the rest of the politicians seem to really hate him right now. your fairy-world explanation that you rattle off without even knowing a single thing about life in the USA, is just a cozy story.

it is a fact. the current Democratic Party candidate is 100% a globalist. she works for them. it is well documented. she has attended multiple Bilderberg meetings. propaganda won't change that. both the Republicans(the Bushes and their cronies) and the Democrats(Clintons and Obama) are all working with the internationalists.

contrary to popular belief, guns aren't the problem. there are many states in the union that have a "must issue" policy for applications for a concealed carry permit for guns, made by citizens with clean records. that means in many parts of states like Washington, Colorado and Idaho, among others, more than half the people you might meet on the street have guns under their clothes. NONE of these states have a murder problem. Places like Washington DC and Chicago, where guns are banned, are murder headquarters. explain this.

personally, i don't think Bernie was any kind of middle class savior. Americans don't need more welfare or handouts from the government. we need the businesses and manufacturing to stop leaving the country for places like China and Mexico. the reason that the lower class is growing and the middle class is in trouble in only because the real, good jobs are gone, leaving minimum wage service jobs, which cannot support the economy. almost ALL of the newly created jobs that the current administration likes to brag about are this kind of low paying service job that should be an entry-level position for teens and college students, but is not the hope of families. Bernie is just another guy who says he'll fix things with handouts.

right now, the "race" is almost even, going by the polls. that is with all the negative things being said about Trump. again, i think both candidates are unacceptable, but the analysis that you are parroting, hubird, is a complete fabrication. i think Hillary will win, but not because lots of people actually prefer her.

[Nestor]

[valis]

Guns is another hot button topic. I live in Washington State, most of the people here that carry don't conceal it (some do when they first get licensed, we all like to play with our new toys don't we?) They may have it in their car in a lockbox however, and perhaps at least one at home in a similar state. And, while home defense will come into the discussion, most of the people I know who have USED their handguns haven't shot at other humans, but rather at animals like feral dogs, coyotes (they will carry off small dogs and cats, and harass children where I live, and I'm in the city) and the occasional rabid animal or maimed one lying by the road. That's a pretty good case for carrying one in the car right there, though in most cases of hitting a deer or etc you're unlikely to be able to catch it unless it's severely maimed indeed.

Much like every race, this one still has both players on the same side. The difference here is that the Trump card is being played for full effect, so it's either to insure Hillary's win (as some say) or because this is the GOP's last gasp (as others say) or...? However in either case we either get a Democrat that is so right wing (a sign of the times for that party) that she's participating in the war machine which was traditionally Republican territory post 9/11. And in Trump's case, it will be more deregulation for the debt creation industries, as it's one of the primary means of wealth creation in an empire's decline (as Gary should know the UK put us in Debt with our "American Revolution" thus insuring a cut of the profits always without any cost to them, a cost which was certainly a large burden when we were the "colonies").

And to be fair in any event such as this, we bring all of the differences of any candidate, issue and discussion into glaringly bright contrast rather than look at the whole. The real question is for ME is, after this race will anything be markedly different than it already is? Shifting money between the industrial base and the banking base is a much smaller change than when we shifted (again) away from technologies and back to the "defense budget" to begin with, post 9/11. Hillary certainly won't change that.

Lastly, in regards to the decline of empires, the arts have positively flourished in such situations many times in the past. So whatever happens this overall discussion seems to be fitting material for inclusion in the messages we're putting out into the world via our other creative outlets. Hint Hint Get to work folks!

[garyb]

well said.

yeah, there was some hyperbole in my Washington State rant, but the point is that guns don't automatically make people homicidal. sorry to get carried away...

yes, i'm aware of the debt from the revolutionary war. if the King of France is the vassal to the King of England and you borrow from the French, ultimately, you owe the King of England. craaazy, man.

if it's a Monopoly game, or The Game of Life, or any other board game where the point is to collect money and possessions and have the most at the end of the game, there are players who struggle, a banker who mans the cash in the bank(who might be a player) and then there is the guy who owns the game. the players fight and scratch to get on top of one another, and sometimes they even cheat. at any time though, the owner can fold up the game and put it back on the shelf.

[dawman]

The GOP had plans for a Bush/Rubio ticket, option B Bush/Fiorina....etc.
Bill and Trump hatched a plan.
Worked great.

Trump gets a huge network show..
HRC, revenge on the world for slapping around Obama.

Without Trump Clintons could never have won.
Poor Bernie.
His visions of Mao brushed aside.

[hubird]

guys, if you need a country to run to if Trump wins, then follow this American's plan (scroll to 1:48 m):
http://www.telegraaf.nl/tv/prive/privet ... gd___.html
Be welcome

[hubird]

I wouldn't call the daily wire or Shapiro objective either

[Nestor]

Whatever the way these terrible bad things are coming out into clear public light, it seems there is not a bottommost stop to it. It goes on and on and on, and every time to show us a deeper series of offences against humanity:

Embezzlement or misappropriation

Money laundering

Arms sales for unthinkable purposes all around the world

Sexual slave trafficking

Extortion in many social ways like through false health insurances

Sexual abuse and pedophilia WITHING the government themselves

Clubs of satanic blood rituals, pedophilia, and all sorts of depraved sexual practices including torture and sadomasochism

Tax havens with extremely intelligent ways for taxation theft

Speculation through all sort of treacheries through banks, loans and mortgage

Trafficking and commercialization of adults AND children organs

Sale of slaves and the use of children slaves for hard work

Millions of lies on top of millions of lies on top hundreds of trillions of lies

The appropriation of all kind of media, particularly those related with THE NEWS

Millions of policeman blindly serving corrupt states

Sale of drugs by the same government, (the biggest owner of the factories by the way)

Torture and slavery of the mind of millions of people

Medical, surgical, drug and organ experimentations of all kind over poor people

Hired assassins working for the government at their service to kill whoever they want to

Increasing control of the internet, to the extent that it will disappear as we know it now

ALL OF THIS IS SIMPLY UNVEARABLE!!!

[hubird]

Funny guys, those superangry fundamentalist conspiracy lovers

[Nestor]

Very frankly, they don’t deteriorate my ethics about life at all. All on the contrary, they are so ugly and unmoved, that they make me realize how much more I have to do to be firm in THE WHITE SIDE OF THINGS, because they belong, obviously, to the black one! What I cannot help, is the pain in my heart to see all this happening, and see there is no possible stop now… Hillary will win, and we are going to go to war. She has been established as the one in power, period. This is how bad things are!

[garyb]

white and black magic are just two sides of the same coin. let all that go.

[hubird]

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[Nestor]

white and black magic are just two sides of the same coin. let all that go.

No my brother, they are not to be mixed with one another. They belong to the same “universe”, as your left and right hands belong to the same body, but they are absolute enemies, antagonism is their mutual feeling and there is no possible fix for that. These forces have been, are and will be for eternity in a perpetual fight.

[hubird]

na, the argumentation is only valid if you agree on comparing Trump and Clinton to Hitler and Stalin - which is rather ridiculous in the eyes of millions of people.
The people were able to chose for Sanders or Paul in example, but...they didn't
I might find that a pity, but...they didn't.

Larken Rose sees himself alienated so much from the society he lives in and prosperously survives in, that he rejects it totally, as it seems.
He's a fundamentalist, and doesn't offer any relevant alternative. Negative shit, so to say.
Yet, most voters think differently about it, and they are not stupid, let alone mislead...
Both candidates get a serious part of their votes from voters with a negative motivation: they don't wanne get the other candidate elected.
That is because these voters see important differences between both candidates, worth to vote for or against.

If Hillary wins I'm not really glad but I will feel quite relieved to see Trump lose.
A lot of immaterial values will be better off with her, and if she holds word to the voters for Sanders the minimum wage are uplifted too, for instance.

But in a polarised world there's only black and white I'm afraid...
I never feel challenged by those black and white thinkers, they look simple to me...

[hubird]

Smart voting:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/ ... te-trading

[Nestor]

Absolutely!

[hubird]

In my country poly parties are forced to co-operate, as they have to find majorities to form a government.
Leads to some viscosity in decision making, but also to a broader political acceptance.
'Society' means organising structural conflicts to a peaceful co-operation of different interests.

We Dutch founded New York, called New Amsterdam before the English forces took over.
I hope America will stand up from the strong polarisation of interests and start governing again