Small/Cheap Digital Mixer

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Tue Jun 05, 2001 8:11 am

Hey folks,

I'm considering getting rid of my giant Tascam M2600 24x8 mixer - anyone wanna buy it??

Realized that for a couple years now, i'm basically using it as a glorified volume knob, patch bay, and headphone amp! So, I'm considering getting a little digital mixer, to accomplish these same things, and also give me some adat I/O. Anyone have any recommendations?

Was looking at the Fostex VM200, as it's cheap (US$500) and has motorized faders, etc. (don't care about the onboard effects). The Tascam TMD1000 doesn't have ADAT I/O. The Yamaha 01V is a bit too expensive.

Advice and ideas appreciated!

cheers,
-john

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Tue Jun 05, 2001 8:23 am

The Roland VM3100pro(with adat), if you can find one cheap ($700 with card or less?) has some pretty nice effects (better than the 01v/03d imho), but no motorized faders. 24 bit converters though. (after you get your head around the slightly nonintuitive interface that is...)

I'd avoid Korg 168rc, older 18 bit converters, subpar fx, no motorized faders.

Which leaves the Tascam and the Fostex $500 digital mixers... neither of which I've used. Doesn't DeFeX use the Tascam TDM1000? <a href=http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ex/shop/ ... pid=630516>(buy here for $499)</a>. Maybe he can say something here.

Wow, look how cheap <a href=http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ex/shop/ ... 31004>this Fostex VM88</a> with ADAT is.. sheesh $299 (thats 62% off!!) Wow... 24 bit inputs too. Wonder how good that is.

[ This Message was edited by: subhuman on 2001-06-05 09:25 ]

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Tue Jun 05, 2001 8:33 am

yeah, i was just looking at that. that's cheaper than a standalone ad/da converter. that's crazy! now i just wonder how good is the UI, routing, etc

found the fostex VM200 for $499 (same price as the tascam, but ADAT instead of TDIF).

haven't looked at the roland, will do.
thanks sub.

-jc

PabloFasan · Post by **PabloFasan** » Tue Jun 05, 2001 1:01 pm

Hi John:

If you have in mind the phrase "you get for what you pay" the Roland VM 3100 Pro is your best choice.

It requires also the DIF-AT converter for to have ADAT output (in facts with it you have ADAT and T/DIF output and Sync).

It comes with a VERY interesting DSP processor that use Roland COSM technology.

About the price it depends where do you live.

Is a solid mixer with AD and DA 24bit converters.

If want to know more details write me in private.

[ This Message was edited by: PabloFasan on 2001-06-05 14:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: PabloFasan on 2001-06-05 14:12 ]

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Tue Jun 05, 2001 1:38 pm

john - i have the vm200 - and i use it for just what you want. i use it to set levels/pans, and as an ad/da convertor for pulsa (has a swell ADAT line). the effects and eq don't sound too good IMHO, but that is what pulsar is for. best wishes . . . it is definitely worth considering . ..

Mo · Post by Mo » Wed Jun 06, 2001 3:04 am

i use the korg 168 for that purpose, and i just can underline what subhuman is saying: the converters are... let´s say, you wouldn´t want to convert through them... the fx are... samewhise bad...

so i´m looking for a way to replace it with single devices, each just for its purpose: an a/d-/da converter, a little analogue mixer for preamping and for monitoring/making phones-mix, and a fader-box. i think this is better than buying a all-in-one solution again, which might be not suited again to the changed situation in a few years... but on the other hand, it´s far more expensive... so i´ll have a look on this discussion here

Mo

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 7:50 am

On 2001-06-05 14:38, algorhythm wrote:
john - i have the vm200 - and i use it for just what you want.

yeah, the vm200 currently the leading contender. for only $449, it seems like a
good deal. how are the converters?

fostex vm88 is a great deal, but seems too limited for what i need.

the vm-3100pro is the other contender, but it's about twice as expensive (after buying the dif-at box, for adat optical). there's a great deal for $699 with the vm-3100pro and a PCI card, but i'd rather stick with optical rather than another card in the PC!

then there's the yamaha 01v, which is the dream, but is $1950 with adat optical...

decisions, decisions!!
-john

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 8:40 am

John I just sold a minty fresh 01v with Adat on Pulsar scope for less than $1400, so there are good people out there looking to move mint gear for lower prices. I would buy the Roland used with adat for $700-$750 or so, but I can understand being wary of the used market. You do have to be smart, and careful.

mystermac · Post by **mystermac** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 1:15 am

Anyone know of a European supplier for any of these mixers at such good prices - or is this deal better than you'd find here and so worth the shipping etc ? Im in the UK - I often find stuff is much cheaper in say Germany - Thomann Cyberstore etc.....

Mac

Frontline Studio · Post by **Frontline Studio** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 1:34 am

Well, UK is cheap indeed, Germany has a lot of stores that are cheaper as well.
I've compared prices and I must say that here in the Netherlands, everything is far more expensive compared to other EU countries!

Strange, because p.e. the British taxconstruction is based on low(ish) income tax and high(er) VAT. Thus: the more you consume, the more you pay.
To put is in a sarcastic way, the Dutch is something like: no matter what quantity you consume, you've GOT to pay the highest price!

So far my rant about taxes.. back to the Pulsar!

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:00 am

Here're some impressions of my tm-d1000 & 01v:

tm-d1000:<ul>
<li>expandable to 16 channels adat i/o
<li>very decent faders w/ 16 individual & 4 extra group faders
<li>haven't tested internal fx or dynamics
<li>looks fine, decent size, rackmountable</ul>

01v:<ul>
<li>expandable to 8 channels adat i/o
<li>faders feel bumpy (from the motors) & only 14 of 'em (channels 13-14 & 15-16 are stereo pairs)
<li>decent utility dynamics on every(!) channel
<li>very intuitive interface
<li>bigger than necessary & hideous</ul>

If someone really wanted an external mixer, I'd recommend a used 03d or 02r over the 01v. The whole side mixer thing's pretty silly, I still prefer the 1600x & BMv2 over either of these & only use the tm-d1000 as a submixer (the 01v's been relegated to the other room). The 1600x can be set to update mode which makes it better for automation.

-Eric Dahlberg

Frontline Studio · Post by **Frontline Studio** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:13 am

How about a nice Yamaha ProMix 01?
They don't cost that muc either (500-750 USD).

This device is the predecessor to the O2/R and still on helluva mixer!

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:24 am

just thought i would clarify my post a bit (john i just saw your post over at yahoo on this). - the FX do not suck, but most aren't good. the real problem is the LCD interface, that is, the FX editing. since we all have pulsars, i think we just prefer a 17"+ COLOR monitor with virtual knobs a plenty at eye level to a small yellow and grey LCD to hover over while using a finicky data wheel and multiple pages . . . OH, and the pulsar FX sound better n-e-wayz!

again, the mixer is great for an A/D lightpipe convertor and controlling levels . . .

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 7:34 am

i went ahead and ordered the vm-200 from zzounds. $449, seems like a good deal!

thanks guys for all your help. i'll let you know what i think when it arrives.

-john

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 7:43 am

On 2001-06-07 05:00, Peezahj wrote:

The whole side mixer thing's pretty silly, I still prefer the 1600x & BMv2 over either of these & only use the tm-d1000 as a submixer (the 01v's been relegated to the other room). The 1600x can be set to update mode which makes it better for automation.

hey eric! happy to see you here

yeah, i have a pc-1600 too. i'm using the scope mixers more than the big mixer (because they're 48 channels). that's all cool.

but still, my main reasons for wanting an external mixer are a) external volume knob between pulsar and event 20/20bas, b) when tracking, need to mute speakers and use headphones, and c) if i don't feel like turning on the PC, i can still make a bit of noise.

anyway, i needed some more A/D's now that i'm bringing *all* my audio signals into the PC.

cheers,
-john

[ This Message was edited by: John Cooper on 2001-06-07 08:44 ]

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:12 pm

Hey John, you ought to know I wouldn't be able to stay away from anything relating to midi controllers. So...happy to be here!

You can actually power your headphones straight out of the Pulsar outputs. I have the control room outs of BM going to sp-dif dest (to digital monitors) & mix outs going to analog dest (to phones), that way I can easily turn off the monitors by hitting the BM's mon/mix switches. Also, I made a little "line booster" using the modular 2 to act as a headphone out (also works great for feeding proper level to the Impressor). What'd be nice is an inverse to Ingo's Switch It, a midi controlled output switcher w/ boost built-in.

As for not having to turn on your computer, that's just plain heracy!!!

-Eric Dahlberg

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:16 pm

ha! i know, but yknow, sometimes i'm impatient while waiting for the PC and scope/sp to start.

and i hate the silence while loading a project. yknow what i mean? some of these projects seem to take a couple minutes to load!!

re: plugging headphones directly into the analog outs, that hadn't even occured to me. it's amplified enough?

-john

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Fri Jun 08, 2001 2:23 pm

Actually, it depends on the impedence of your 'phones, there are some that need to be driven harder than others. On my Sony 7506s, Pulsar's outputs, when cranked, are suitable for a comfortable listening level, meaning that many consumer-grade 'phones ought to even get too loud.

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 4:56 pm

I'm curious as to how the VM200 purchased worked out for everyone. I ended up talking my friend out of the 01v and into the VM200, since he only has one external synth. It was only 33% of the cost of the 01v, hopefully it's at least 50% as good.

Reviews? First impressions? John?

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 7:54 pm

praise:
the price!
decent convertors
four preamps
excellent routing flexibility (nice cuz pulsar is too!)
good manual
works as midi controller
has SPDIF and ADAT standard, both optical - 01V ADAT is xtra $$$$ - (almost as much as this whole mixer!).
solid construction
rack mountable with optional ears.

blame:
LCD screen - i am part of the new breed - i am used to softsynths and other BIG COLOR INTERFACES. this LCD is tiny in comparison
FX are a pain to deal with
features list is deceptive - you must disable EQ on CH 9-20 for FX sends 3/4 due to dsp issues.