+4dBu -> -10dBV can it be done painlessly?

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Immanuel
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Post by Immanuel »

Hi I just got permission to spend 350€ on preamps and a compressor for recording to normal consummer standard tapes.

It is going to be used for therapy sessions at the university, where I study (music therapy). Hi-Fi is not, what is needed. Reason for the purchase is, that the 2 old cassette decks (with mic inputs and a slider for input level - they are that old!) are about to die. The "new" cassette deck will be a double deck taken from somewhere else in the university. I tested the deck - it is medium quality - nothing special, but it will do the job a couple of years more. I planned to go for a Behringer ub802 mixer and a DBX 266XL compressor. The over all main object is to get the recordings clear enough to hear both spoken words and loud drumming. As it is now soft talking (wich is not exactly unheard of in therapy situations) gets drowned in noise and/or louder drumming/piano playing gets heavily distorted.

I planed to set it up like this:
1) Get a hard drumming friend of mine to beat the drums.
2) Adjust the Behringer to just below clipping level.
3) Set the channel and main level on the behringer to 12 o'clock position (they are turning pots - not faders).
4) Take the main outs from the behringer and pluck it into the dbx.
5) Take the outputs from the dbx and send it to the tape deck.
6) Set tape deck input to 12 o'clock (I tested, that this matches -10dBV from my own tape deck).
7) With sound still going unprocessed thru the dbx, I adjust the output gain, so that the peaks will just reach +7dB on the tape deck meter.
8) I set the threshold to 10dB below the point, where it starts to kick in.
9) I set the ratio to 4:1.
10) I turn up the output from the dbx till the tape deck peaks at +7dB again (the meter goes to 8).

Ok, I am sorry, that this got so long, what I realy wanted to know was - is it ok to send a signal from a +4dBu device to a -10dBV device, if I turn down the output of the +4dBu device enough? Or are there other hidden problems? I have checked the impedances, and there is sertainly no problem in that respect. The music therapy study is one of the most expensive human studies in Denmark (the technical studies are far more expensive) - still we are on a very tight budget. To give examples we have 15 lessons of psycology per ½ year for 1½ years - and the same amount of psyciatry. We have 3 hours of private singing lessons durring the entire first year. A lesson is 45minutes. We have more subjects than this, but this gives a pretty good picture of, why I do not want to spend money from the university, and then find out that I made a mistake. I got a student job (15 hours each ½ year) to take care of the instruments and all, that is related to this (15 hours run quick - I spend more time and earn about 85€ after tax/½year, so I realy do it more or less as a favour).

Ok - this got long too ... The answer will ironically probably be pretty short :)
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

I don't know exactly about the level's problem but I guess most gear can be adjusted properly for a tape's input.
You don't mention sidechaining the mic by the drum's level. Wouldn't it eliminate the problem of distortion - unhearable voices completely ?

cheers, Tom
Immanuel
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Location: Aalborg, Denmark

Post by Immanuel »

Oh - I forgot something :smile:
There are only 2 microphones - hanging down from the sealing. Everything is recorded thru those.

The dbx can go either +4dBu or -10dBV. So If I take a +4dBu signal into the dbx, it will put a lot out too. I could use the tape outs from the behringer, but ..... behringer gives a lot of specifications on almost anything else than the tape outs. That is why I will not default to a belief, that the tape outs are as low noise as needed.
Immanuel
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Location: Aalborg, Denmark

Post by Immanuel »

Any more comments, before I go spend the money? It took down my advanced (to me anyway) music tech book, and If I got it right:

-10dBV = 0,245V
+4dBu = about 1,2V

wich means, that +4dBu is actually about 14dB above -10dBV. Any tech person around, who can tell me, if I am on the right track? Does this mean, that turning down the output of the +4dBu device about 14dB will make it feed a -10dBV device without other problems? - as long as the impedances are fit ok (input no less than 10x the output). This is all about Volts - do I overlook something important about ampere? I actually do not know the most fundamental basics of electronic circuitry. So what I know is build upon a fragile base.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! :roll:
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Nestor
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Post by Nestor »

Don't you have any expert advice from shops there? I don't want to give a point of view here, cos I have but an impression, and this is not knowledge... sorry.
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

Immanuel
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Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Aalborg, Denmark

Post by Immanuel »

Nestor
My experience with most people who sell gear is, that they have only a very rough knowledge of what they are selling. I experience most of them as musicians who found another way of earning bread. Only rarely do I stumple across sellers, who actually posses in debth tech knowledge about the gear (you know - beyond quoting advertisements). The chance of getting hear-say in a shop is IMO much larger, than getting it from people at Z who's posts I have read for over a year.

garyb
I scrolled the page, and at the buttom I found the 124 - was that, what you wanted me to see? It is unfortunately not an option at this moment to spend 200$+ on a level matching tool. Also Aphex dealers are quite rare here in Denmark.
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

yeah,that's it.anyone with knowledge of audio electronics could make you one.(there's about $30 worth of parts in a simple design)other companies make them as well.audio level matching (buffer)amps,that is.......

and yes,you can go out of a +4 device into a -10or20 device with no penalty if there is no audible distortion...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-05-17 00:05 ]</font>
Immanuel
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Location: Aalborg, Denmark

Post by Immanuel »

Thank you very much Garyb. Both informations are very usefull to me. I think I will start out with being conservative with the make-up gain then.
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