How would you make a Shockwave movie?

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:06 pm

Any idea? Cheers...

Thalamus · Post by **Thalamus** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:13 pm

You would use Director from Macromedia ( http://www.macromedia.com )

_________________
Yours truely

Noah Laux
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http://www.thalamusic.dk


[ This Message was edited by: Thalamus on 2003-10-04 21:13 ]

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:44 pm

Wow, what a program! I have read about it through your link. I already know it, but the new one seems very powerful... So there is no a cheap way to do it, it must be Director...

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:05 pm

Shockwave movies are more for user-interactivity with the movie or animation. Unless what you're doing is very complex you can usually just use Flash. You can still get a lot of interactivity from that: user drag and drop, grow, shrink, sticky, push, click etc

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:30 am

And how do you make Flash? You still need to buy a MM product

(although it may be cheaper than director)

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:08 am

About one-third the price !

And far, far fewer people have the Shockwave plugin than Flashplayer.

Some good examples here:
http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/index_v2.html

http://surface.yugop.com/

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:27 am

It´s curious to me how there are people who hate Flash, I´m between those who truly love it... I find it fantastic... I love Flash sites, not all of them of curse, but used with care and being careful not to overload with too many colours and figures, I find Flash one of the best revolutions made in the animation arena since it started about the 90s.

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:49 am

On 2003-10-06 03:27, Nestor wrote:
It´s curious to me how there are people who hate Flash

Flash is fine for cleaning your kitchen floor and nothing else.

Royston

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:32 am

Oh... I see... you are one of them...

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:02 am

On 2003-10-06 04:32, Nestor wrote:
Oh... I see... you are one of them...

Flash is also good for defeating Ming The Merciless!

Royston

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:19 am

On 2003-10-06 03:27, Nestor wrote:
It´s curious to me how there are people who hate Flash,

1) Flash is binary format
=> Bigger download size
=> Unable for search engines to make indexes of them
2) It's "graphical"
=> Unable to view it's contents through text-based browser (like lynx for linux, many cellular browser etc)
=> Impossible to use them without mouse (which is disfavorable)
=> Blind people can't enjoy them because speech-synthesizers have no idea what they are
=> Can't copy text out of it
3) Need third-party plugin (not all browsers support them)
4) Can't bookmark anything except the base url
5) Focus of flash is in the appearance, not in the content (and often usability is sacrificed)

Enough? Just my opinions.
If you want more, look at this : http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html

[ This Message was edited by: spoimala on 2003-10-06 05:19 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:58 pm

On 2003-10-06 05:19, spoimala wrote:

1) Flash is binary format
=> Bigger download size
=> Unable for search engines to make indexes of them

1) Flash is vector format meaning much, much smaller download size
- Search engines can and do index flash movies (I can find mine on Google !

)

2) It's "graphical"
=> Unable to view it's contents through text-based browser (like lynx for linux, many cellular browser etc)
=> Impossible to use them without mouse (which is disfavorable)
=> Blind people can't enjoy them because speech-synthesizers have no idea what they are
=> Can't copy text out of it

2) It's graphical.
- it can be used with mouse or keyboard
- if you going to use a text-based browser then just expect text, not rich-media !
- blind people aren't going to enjoy an intrinsically graphics-based medium anyway
- you can't copy text out of it (or pictures). This is a big plus - all them thieving hounds keep yer mits off.

3) Need third-party plugin (not all browsers support them)

3) Need third-party plugin. Yes you do, and it's currently the world's most widely-installed third-party plugin. Way bigger installed base than mediaplayer, realplayer, quicktime etc. If your browser can't see it then move into the current decade and get something decent.

4) Can't bookmark anything except the base url

4) Can't bookmark anything except the base URL. True, but you can embed each file in it's own page.

5) Focus of flash is in the appearance, not in the content (and often usability is sacrificed)

Enough? Just my opinions.

5) Not true. This is what *some designers* might do. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with Flash itself or it's capabilities. That some people make appalling crap is neither here nor there, There are also plenty of terrible html-only sites out there.

Enough? Just my opinions.

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:35 am

Should we start a war on this? Okay

1) Flash is vector format meaning much, much smaller download size

How do you express raster graphics, sound etc in vector format?
On experience I've found that Flash-based versions of any site DOES load slower than HTML-version.

- Search engines can and do index flash movies (I can find mine on Google ! )

There are some exceptions, like Google, which is superior search engine any way.

- it can be used with mouse or keyboard
- if you going to use a text-based browser then just expect text, not rich-media !

I don't expect rich media. I expect information.

- blind people aren't going to enjoy an intrinsically graphics-based medium anyway

Who says WWW is (even) intrinsically graphics-based??? Do you remember the history of WWW?
WWW should be usable media for everyone.

- you can't copy text out of it (or pictures). This is a big plus - all them thieving hounds keep yer mits off.

Ugh.

If your browser can't see it then move into the current decade and get something decent.

Try to install flash player into your palm computer. (Okay, this will surely be possible sometim soon, if not already. But still, not all browser will ever support it.)

4) Can't bookmark anything except the base URL. True, but you can embed each file in it's own page.

What does this mean?

5) Not true. This is what *some designers* might do. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with Flash itself or it's capabilities. That some people make appalling crap is neither here nor there,

Look http://www.macromedia.com/software/flas ... /overview/ for what Flash is all about.
Marketing, presentations, applications etc. I agree. Not providing real information. It shouldn't be the only way of marketing though.

There are also plenty of terrible html-only sites out there.

I never denied that

Site designing is a challenging job, whatever technique is used. But Flash makes it impossible

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:20 pm

Rather than quote within quote, just a few comments:

Compare a swf with an equivalent animated gif file and you can see the massive extra capbilities, movement, morphing and interactive benefits of swf vector. But of course if you include images in your swf file (and music) then that won't be vector. Let's not get into minute details needing multiple qualifying statements !

"Rich media" means a multi-layered information delivery using text, images, sound, video etc. It's all about delivering information in a way that will hopefully appeal more widely and more effectively to people than mere text.

Do I "remember the history of the www". Yes I do. It was built to provide a robust computing environment in the case of a massive nuclear exchange or other major damage. But it's not a heritage zone that needs preserving as it was, or to pay homage to some quaint "text" tradition. Let it run free

"WWW should be usable media for everyone". -- Yes it should, but some people with disabilities just aren't going to get the full effect. That's the cruel, horrible, harsh and wicked world. I don't even provide an alternative to non-Flash users. But if they want to go elsewhere that's fine by me, I completely understand. Can't please everyone and I don't try to.

And I vigourously stand by this:

- you can't copy text out of it (or pictures). This is a big plus - all them thieving hounds keep yer mits off.

Hope I don;t sound too much like a monolithic record company, but it is too easy to get ripped off. Again this is fine if it's a hobby, bad if (like me) paying your rent depends on it.

Flash on PocketPCs ? I did experiment quite heavily with this when the first PocketPC flashplayer came out. Not a happy tale. I gave up and will wait. I think this segment will be very important in another year or so.

Regarding bookmarking, I just meant if you have swf files that aren't mini-sites within themselves that you can just embed it in a page. But it doesn't get around multi-page Flash-only sites.

Regarding "terrible non-Flash sites", I just meant that you shouldn;t blame the tool. Flash certainly does lend itself to hideous and huge sites full of fluffy nothingness. I've been to plenty of techno-sci-fi style sites which look fantastic, but actually contain virtually nothing. A joke.

But this is not the fault of Flash, just human error.

---

What a civilised and pleasat war

Any more ammo ?

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:12 pm

Yes, that's true... In the same way Pulsar has nothing to do with bad music, of course.

It's a good discerniment to say: I don't like Flash designers, but not the program.

I've seen trully fantastic jobs made with Flash. The smoothness of its colours is fantastic, and I can't see it in any other program. It is kind of a special vector rendering.

I think the problem is most of all, the over use of it, like plug-ins some times, among us, electronic musicians.

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:41 am

Spirit, I'll reply to you later when i have time, so prepare!

Nestor, some problems I listed are there built-in in Flash, despite the designer.

About your comparison to music making; only the artist needs those tools, consumer can listen to them using only CD-player

(web pages should be viewable using only web browser)

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:09 am

On 2003-10-30 02:41, spoimala wrote:
Spirit, I'll reply to you later when i have time, so prepare!