The Future of Music - is there one?

AudioIrony · Post by **AudioIrony** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 9:11 am

Underground is now mainstream.
All that was old is new again.
Fast food music for the masses.

I find myself creating music every day and every day I think, scrap it...I've heard that somewhere before. That's just my personal rant....but....

Where do you think we go from here?
Is there a bunch of new movements on the horizon?
Are there any interesting new genres to explore?

I know the obvious answer is to go off and create your own...but I'm just after your opinions on what you guys find interesting these days.

I'm in a vacuum of voidy numbness at the moment.

Post by **Neil B** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:15 am

What goes around, comes around.
Anything that is old and outdated now will be back again, perhaps with a facelift, perhaps with a better quality of production.
Does there need to be new genres on the horizon?
Music will always be all around us and styles will come and go and come back again.
I wouldn't scrap anything you've done if I were you. It may be the best seller of the next decade!
In the UK it is fashionable to buy a Parka coat for the winter. Everyone is walking around as if they are the first person to wear one. I bought my first one in 1968 during the mods and rockers era.
It's the same with music. Perhaps you're just having a bad hair day Brett ?!?!?
ANyway as an example -
How come a band that has been around for 30 years are still best remembered for the work they did in the 70's?
How come that band influenced everyone from Donna Summer, through the Pet Shop Boys, the ambient scene and techno/trance, yet failed to cut it big time when they went more into dance orientated electonic music?
How come they're the most sampled band ever?
How come musos still drool over modular synths (hard or soft), arpeggiators and sequencers? Because of their influence.
So, keep your works - your best one might be now, but not heard for a few years!!
Just my opinion.

BUT, if I had to make a prediction, now that boy bands are in decline and the market has been saturated with the current genres, I've got a sneaky feeling that classic Motown will reappear with a 21st Century feel to it (must be the Parkas).

Oh, and I'm sure you can guess who my example band were (not Black Lace)

_________________
Neil B

[ This Message was edited by: Neil B on 2003-11-27 11:13 ]

Post by **Neil B** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:21 am

Just thought of another idea for you Brett:
Take one of your own favourite tracks, think of a commercial product that it would suit, and write a 30 second advert piece out of the track. This uses your incredible compositional skills to sell yourself and a product in a short space of time.
Seems like a good idea for another competition

.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:23 pm

I guess I'm at a similar phase right now. Not that I'm worried about the music market. It'll always be there, whether it's supposedly "new" stuff using the latest gadgets, or reincarnations of old stuff. I'm worried about myself. I can feel myself loosing interest in CD-massmarket music. I don't really care about the miniscule details that make one tune different from another. Most of the ideas sound so tired and worn out. I'm getting tired of them myself. And recently, I haven't had inspiration or influence that sends me pondering about a red-hot idea. It seems like everything sounds so simple.. stuff you could learn to do in a couple of months if you put your mind to it.

So I find myself going back to the masters alot recently. I really like Debussy. Actually, I'm beginning to like classical music and symphonic music. I think I'll be spending some time with it for now. Or, more like the next 10 years trying to get good at it. This whole symphonic thing.. it could be that I've finally found a way to digest them, not so much as symphonic music replacing whatever else that I've been doing up 'till now. So I think it's a good phase that's coming up.

Going back to the market's future. The market will always have a future. Like you guys are saying, old stuff gets recycled and mixed with new technology. It's a cycle. And as long a that cycle continues, and as long as composers know more than the consumers, the music market will have a future. The only thing is, once you learn most of the "parts" that get recycled, you loose interest in the market. So, the market will be there, but you'll be out of it.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-11-27 12:25 ]

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:27 pm

Those great composers are not great by chance! They had profound things to express through their music and they passed through the fog of fashions and entertainment like a plane through a cloud!

Lately I discovered a composer which blew me away. His name is Henryk Gorecki. I've been to a choir concert at McGill University and they sang masterpieces from Gorecki and Arvo Part. This was the best concert I ever saw! For some pieces, the choir was placed all around the audience, can you imagine the healing that this brought? When the concert ended, I thought "Shouldn't I leave everything else and work with human voices and choirs?" Human voice is the most marvelous musical instrument of the Universe!

Symphonic stuff is pretty amazing too, and it's funny you bring it up Ken for in a week I'll be introduced to a conductor and I'll probably submit a piece of mine to be performed by this amateur symphonic orchestra. I'll go hear what they're capable of and I have much expectations about it for it is a great dream of mine to compose for a whole orchestra.

I love Debussy too! Dvorak is awesome, Shubert too, but definitely check for Gorecki's work!

Au revoir

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:17 pm

eliam! that's great! It's good you have the oppertunity.

Referring back to "void numbness" I think it's a good time to take a break when that happens. I dunno about you, but I used to think that consuming music like a consumer would... like fast food, was kind of taboo. I didn't like it when people did that to my music, so I didn't do so to other people's music. When I listen, I listen in detail. If a tune didn't live up to be listened to in detail, I pretty much ignored them.

Recently tho, I've learned to appreciate music as fast food. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not, but it's definitely opened up new horizons for me. When I consume fast food style, I'm not constantly waiting for the music to make a statement. In fact, I listen as I clean the room, or take a shower, or whatever. I'm actually not listening to the music. This creates a strange situation where I remember the impression of the entire tune, or perhaps an album, whereas if I had listened intently, I would remember tiny segments and details of the tune.

It's especially interesting in the shower. I'm actually hearing worse because of the shower noise, picking up only a vague image of the sonic contour. This is probably close to how a non composer hears a tune. (I'm assuming) I can only hear a couple of distinctive sounds here and there, and maybe the chorus if the vocal is dubbed and loud enough.

But another thing I found out is that a well structured harmony also carries quite well through the shower noise. Especially slow passages with soaring harmonies. The bass gets washed away, but the harmony remains. It carries through the shower noise much better than, say, loud percussive sounds.

So, it's a new way of listening and also brings up new ways of thought. When you can't output what you want, change the way you percieve. Upgrade your IO card.. so to speak. hehe.

Post by **Neil B** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:37 pm

Interesting Ken & Eliam.
Ken - if I upgrade my IO card based on your points, do I need a waterproof Pulsar Card for use in the shower?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:04 pm

Music is not going in one direction. There are branches. Not all branches are good but there probably is something to be learned and possibly used in all types. If you are a true composer you will not worry about what other people are doing. I admire people that do something original, however that is not always my criteria for listening. If the music is good it can borrow from other styles but the best music has a lot of originality. I don't think you can be 100% original though.

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:39 pm

I recently went to a small songwriter's workshop. I doubt that any of the music played by the 10 featured songwriters will make it to radio. But WOW. Unique, emotive, brilliant, and honed. Simply stunning....

I understand that the mass market is about fashion and marketing. Fair enough. That's business. But music is about listening to your muse...or somebody elses. So many people, perspectives, experiences, personalities....

My point, if I can find one. I think music (Or people's acceptance) will move outwards another step. There'll just be a bit more of everything, including shallowness and depth.

AudioIrony · Post by **AudioIrony** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:14 pm

On 2003-11-27 12:23, kensuguro wrote:
I guess I'm at a similar phase right now. Not that I'm worried about the music market. It'll always be there, whether it's supposedly "new" stuff using the latest gadgets, or reincarnations of old stuff. I'm worried about myself. I can feel myself loosing interest in CD-massmarket music. I don't really care about the miniscule details that make one tune different from another. Most of the ideas sound so tired and worn out. I'm getting tired of them myself.

Thanks Kens, Yeah, this is pretty much the point I was making, on a personal level. I'm not concerned with what will make money and how I can jump on the bandwagon of the next latest and greatest music craze to be thrown at the kids/consumer market. If I want to make my $7.50 per annum all I have to do is make an 8 minute dance tune and send it to an independent label

I'm actually passionate about my music, and I used to enjoy either experimenting and/or setting challenges to create music in either certain genres etc etc.. but my ears are just getting tired. Maybe I'm just getting tired and it's reflected in the music I've been making.
I've also found myself trying to experiment with small quartet/piano arrangements just to indulge myself and quickly learning that I don't really have the skills, aptitute or even the dicipline to really pull it off - and this is just to my own satisfaction.
I guess what I'm looking for is inspiration from outside my own little box, something that will move me again.
It's really a personal rave and not one of earth shattering consequence. Just a "voidy numbness" to overcome.

Neil B Wrote : BUT, if I had to make a prediction, now that boy bands are in decline and the market has been saturated with the current genres, I've got a sneaky feeling that classic Motown will reappear with a 21st Century feel to it (must be the Parkas).

Too funny, and I'll be sure to change my last season anorak for a new season parka

So.... what' everyone listening to for inspiration, what excites you ?
Sometimes the washing machine excites me and it's not that I generally get excited by white-goods, but ours makes particularly great sounds and rhythms at times.

[ This Message was edited by: blgrace on 2003-11-27 17:24 ]

AudioIrony · Post by **AudioIrony** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:21 pm

On 2003-11-27 10:21, Neil B wrote:
Just thought of another idea for you Brett:
Take one of your own favourite tracks, think of a commercial product that it would suit, and write a 30 second advert piece out of the track. This uses your incredible compositional skills to sell yourself and a product in a short space of time.
Seems like a good idea for another competition .

Thanks for the complement and idea Neil, but it's not something I really want to do. I actually did this a long time ago, but I generally got told the music was too strange

What I should probably do is try and find some of those 15-30 second things and rediscover why they were so strange and revisit it..... strange old becomes strange new - there's that cycle again

AudioIrony · Post by **AudioIrony** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:03 pm

On 2003-11-27 16:04, braincell wrote:
Music is not going in one direction. There are branches. Not all branches are good but there probably is something to be learned and possibly used in all types. If you are a true composer you will not worry about what other people are doing. I admire people that do something original, however that is not always my criteria for listening. If the music is good it can borrow from other styles but the best music has a lot of originality. I don't think you can be 100% original though.

This is a good point and I agree with this, you can't be %100 original, not since the ® ™ and patents are out on even the silliest of comsumer comsumables

I do like to hear what other people are doing though so I can learn. I'm not trained in any way so I rely on my ears only.

Sometimes I compose until my nose bleeds but I don't know if I'm a true composer or not, to be honest.
What criterion in your opinion defines a true composer?

I was reading another article with the title: "Is Dance/Electronic music *real* music?"

Naturally I'd argue that anything that moves air and in turn moves someone to argue whether they like it or not is real music. (not very scientific I know) Basically it's a moot point to argue over genres really. You either like it or you don't. So, I guess being open is the key to being a composer?

Post by **garyb** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:03 am

as the famous man once said,"there is nothing new under the sun.",how long ago was that? 5,000 years?

it's easy to say WHAT humans do,you know,take things that are here and recombine them to make new versions of what we know(even computers are that).

what's hard to say is why they feel so compelled to do it.there is more happening in this universe than first meets the eye.

so you made some music.people need that stuff,so carry on.

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:55 am

On the "personal numbness" level....I remember reading an interview with guitarist Larry Carlton many years ago. He said that when he ran out of ideas, he just stopped playing for a few months. His technique would go to hell but when he came back to playing he would always find fresh ideas.

Worth a thought?

AudioIrony · Post by **AudioIrony** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:12 am

On 2003-11-28 00:55, Mikka wrote:
On the "personal numbness" level....I remember reading an interview with guitarist Larry Carlton many years ago. He said that when he ran out of ideas, he just stopped playing for a few months. His technique would go to hell but when he came back to playing he would always find fresh ideas.

Worth a thought?

Definitely!!!

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:58 am

On 2003-11-27 16:04, braincell wrote:
Music is not going in one direction. There are branches. Not all branches are good but there probably is something to be learned and possibly used in all types.

All branches ARE good for the persons involved in them and music in general, IMHO

If you are a true composer you will not worry about what other people are doing.

Agreed to a point. It all depends what branch you are in.

I admire people that do something original, however that is not always my criteria for listening.

I believe that every piece of music is original by definition. You can't stop yourself from doing something because someone tells you that it sounds like so and so...

If the music is good it can borrow from other styles but the best music has a lot of originality. I don't think you can be 100% original though.

My point exactly.

Hey! I compose the most boring music the planet has heard these days and guess what: I am receiving 5-digit royalty checks.

It goes to show that there is something good in all branches of music. It's all in the way the styles are used and to what end, eh?

Billy goat gruff · Post by **Billy goat gruff** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:42 pm

$123.09..........?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 9:55 pm

you almost got the numbers right, Lifechangee! Just move your decimal point to the right a couple of spaces.

I hate techno but it pays the bills

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:00 pm

I’ve truly enjoyed this thread.

I cannot tell which the future of music is, unless you are talking about a particular style. I don’t think a single person can take care of “music” as a whole; it is as difficult as studying macroeconomics.

Anyway, if I need more fuel to keep going with a project, I search not in music directly, but in life. Listening to music will always help, but going through human experiences will help much more.

These actions will definitely awake in you deep emotions and changes in the way you think, when you mature as a person, your music matures with you as well, your music will always be related to “who” you are and “how” you think, feel and will, this is undeniable.

Take a journey to a foreign place, far away from your culture.

Go with a recorder to speak to oldest people in town, ask them their experience and record to listen them quietly at home.

Get into a Charity and go from home to home helping people, and open yourself to their problems.

Get into a completely new branch of knowledge like astronomy, or do a deep study of the cell.

Go climbing a 2000 feet mountain and sleep the whole night alone, stair at nature at night and contemplate the space, breath the air, see the stars.

Study biology and wonder yourself through the workings of nature.

These kind of things are the ones that will move you to compose, if you already are a prone person to compose, it will be impossible to not to compose.

As Garyb said: There is much, much more than what the eye can see...

Billy goat gruff · Post by **Billy goat gruff** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:24 am

"I hate techno but it pays the bills"

Good on you Paul. As Mark Twain said, "My morals aren't what they used to be. I'm doing things for $1million.....when I used to hold out for $2million."

I have a lot of respect for musicians who can get over perfectionism.