Simple: DON'T FORGET real performance, there is nothing like

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 9:50 am

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Denn ... rsDCI.html

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 9:54 am

What's so special here? Did I miss something?

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:44 am

Are you kidding?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:01 am

good groove and all... shouldn't we be checking out some Billy Cobham recordings?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:04 am

That is too funny, Ken. That is exactly the thought that came to my mind.

virtualstudio · Post by **virtualstudio** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:26 am

this is my favorite drummer
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/mikeportnoymd.html

regards

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:26 pm

Just get the 'Rush Live in Rio' DVD, OK?

Royston

Post by **hubird** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:59 pm

ehhh...sorry guys, very boring stuff, specially Portnoy in his metal shop.

Take one bar of the drummer of James Brown's band the JB's and you can go all night long.
Groove is about timing, if you fill every millisecond there's not much room for sophisticated timing.
Impressive then?
Yes, but that has nothing to do with music.

Just to let hear a counter voice ...

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2003-12-02 18:02 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:13 pm

nuf true.

bernard purdy.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:44 am

On 2003-12-02 17:59, hubird wrote:
ehhh...sorry guys, very boring stuff, specially Portnoy in his metal shop.

Take one bar of the drummer of James Brown's band the JB's and you can go all night long.
Groove is about timing, if you fill every millisecond there's not much room for sophisticated timing.
Impressive then?
Yes, but that has nothing to do with music.

Just to let hear a counter voice ...

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2003-12-02 18:02 ]

Boring?

You must be kidding Hubird. Listen again and again and yet again… This little piece of music shows a relaxed performance, perfectly synchronized, there are only two instruments and it is nevertheless very entertaining, talent is purring through their hands, the drummer is extremely skilled, watch his right leg and understand why!

This is precisely why I said: don’t forget real performance, there is nothing like it! Because we tend to get too deeply involved in our gear not giving the time or the chance to real instruments to develop an important part in our lives, and there is nothing like it, real performance, versus sequencers, is a world in itself that worth the effort.

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:09 am

Yeas, Portnoy is awesome, but this MAN is incredible http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/TerryBozzio.html

Post by **hubird** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:24 am

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:30 am

hubird, I think this whole topic is about the perfomance. This is the drums used as a solo instrument. Quite different from how you refer to JB's loops. The musicianship (or performance) in these videos is just amazing. It's a demonstration of technique. It's one of the rare occasions that a drummer is brought "upfront". I would suppose, all these drummers would lay back, if the situation calls for it. But understand that these videos are a drummer's "showcase". Of course, they're going to try to do all the tricks in their books.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-12-03 09:35 ]

virtualstudio · Post by **virtualstudio** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:40 am

I agree Bozzio is incredible, its just that I like Portnoy what he does in Dream Theater, I prefer their work than most of the recordings I heard with Bozzio, still you're right he is absolutly f***ing amazing!!!

Post by **hubird** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:12 pm

On 2003-12-03 09:30, kensuguro wrote:
hubird, I think this whole topic is about the perfomance. This is the drums used as a solo instrument. Quite different from how you refer to JB's loops. The musicianship (or performance) in these videos is just amazing. It's a demonstration of technique. It's one of the rare occasions that a drummer is brought "upfront". I would suppose, all these drummers would lay back, if the situation calls for it. But understand that these videos are a drummer's "showcase". Of course, they're going to try to do all the tricks in their books.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-12-03 09:35 ]

well, that makes sense

at the same time, what you say underlines my point of view: in essence these video's are just about skills and technics, it's showcase for music students and music teachers, it can't impress me for a second.
In fact, it are exactly these guys that drove me streight into electronic (sequenced) music, which takes the audience much more seriously.

So, Nestor

, if you like to promote life performance, you took the perfect wrong guy to convince me

I still can appreciate played music, but then think of St Germain, or many other artists.

Anyway, it's not my wish to take away your pleasure listening to him, it's just that I don't see why exactly these video's are an argument for relevant life performancing.
A perfect study book about history doesn't
make it a historical roman, isn't it?

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2003-12-03 12:17 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:48 pm

Got to agree with Hubird here. Displays of technical expertise seldom make good music. That's not to belittle the musicians, but the two things are quite different IMHO.

And like Hubird it was these sorts of dull displays by "amazing musicianship" etc that led me to punk. Give me a bad muso with a good idea any day rather than a good but boring musician.

Musician skills ? Yech ! Not interested.

It's like these days everyone seems obsessed with the technical qualities of someone's voice. Yeah, OK, but what are they saying ?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:10 pm

I'm just saying, that in this specific context, which is a showcase of technique, the drummers are required to show technique. I would guess that most of them don't perform in this way if it wasn't their showcase. You have to understand the context. You wouldn't expect to see a runner in the Olympics to smile and waive to the audience as they run. No, the people run to make good time, because they're judged for time. But, maybe if the olympic runners run to their baby, they might run in a differnt way.

On the other hand tho, it's good that we're thiking about what makes musicianship. Technique only isn't enough. If all players played at their full capability and loudness all the time, we wouldn't have music. In contrast, everyone takes context into account. And in this specific context, the drummers are required to showcase all their technique. And it shows alot of depth and mastery in the field of drum solos. Just like there are organ solos or piano solos beyond imagination, there are drum solos. I don't think it is wrong to acknowledge such performances and technique. It's not a bad thing. Actually, it is a very good thing. A drum solo is very different from normal drum playing.

Obviously, these people are very good with the drums. All of them. I don't see why we can't sit back and respect the amount of practice that went into the art.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-12-03 14:17 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:16 pm

Sure, I agree with that 100%. No dispute from me !

I really intend my comments more generally to where sometimes technique is substituted for musical outcome.

It reminds me of a publishing company where I used to work. The company would train people in how to use various design software and then would say: "OK, now you're a graphic designer."

But no ! These people knew only how to operate a software package. They had no real skill in design at all. They could press all the right buttons and menus but their stuff was terrible.

Sometimes I find this syndrome with classically trained musicians too. They can play other people's music beautifully, but are so wound up in technique and theory and context that they're utterly incapable of original composition. But this is getting a bit off the topic...

virtualstudio · Post by **virtualstudio** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:52 pm

I agree with you there spirit clasical trained musicians can be boring,
but if you'd ever seen Portnoy or Bozzio life you would know its not the case with these guys they are both very "musical" drummers, I've seen portnoy with Dreamtheater now three times and while the rest of the band does their solo-spot, Portnoy stays very functional to the band and does not do a drumsolo(wich is rather exceptional for "rock" concerts)

And maybe I'm old-fashioned but I rather see A drummer and his band working out there then a drum-machine or a DJ (the new Stars??)spinning a few records

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:14 pm

i am with virtualstudio when it comes to Portnoy. i prefer LTE to Dream Theater tho', no whining vocalist and Tony Levin with his Stick

Musician skills ? Yech ! Not interested.

You made my day