CreamWare reloaded

A place to talk about whatever Scope music/gear related stuff you want.

Moderators: valis, garyb

King of Snake
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Post by King of Snake »

Let's all share this moment of communal bliss! mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :grin:

Creamware is dead, long live Creamware! (Yeah I guess someone must have said that already :wink:).
Great news Frank, I hope CW will become even better than it was already. I also hope you will be able to answer some of the questions asked by a lot of people here. I understand you might not be able to talk specifically about future products, but it would be indeed good to know some general direction or focus for the (near) future. Also, the various comments about marketing are valid, and a quality system like CW's deserves to be more than just Hans Zimmer's "secret weapon". The very fact that he called it a "secret" should have made you aware that your marketing department wasn't doing it's job properly! :wink:
I understand money spent on marketing can't be spent on R&D, but of course better marketing also means more cards sold so more income for CW.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: King of Snake on 2004-01-31 05:13 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: King of Snake on 2004-01-31 05:14 ]</font>
sharcsound
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Post by sharcsound »

Mazel Tov Frank!
We're all behind you 1000%. As your loyal user base, we have lots of worthwhile suggestions that will make Creamware Audio even more sucessful. Like, try to get the North American product marketing outsourced. And try to form relationships with other industry leaders whose products we also use, like Tascam's GigaStudio and Steinberg's Nuendo and Sony's Sound Forge. There are many third party products that I'd love to see on the SFP. And please don't forget about upgradeing the Sharcs and that the future belongs to PCI Express. I will be sure to mark February 1st on the calendar so I can celebrate it faithfully every year. You might consider having annual birthday sales and specials. Thanks, and welcome back bigger than life.
devo
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Post by devo »

Congratulations to all involved - it's really nice to see the happy factor to be restored in the forum. I wish you CW guys (CWA now?) the best of luck and I look forward to see what you have in store for us in the future.

I need to throw out a suggestion to Frank though: since you said that you should keep the operation a bit smaller and more focused on the things you do best - maybe you could try and get a little help from the community? Without knowing for sure, this excellent place (PlanetZ - I mean, where would we all be without it?) is a pretty strong community already taking care of a lot of "customer service" and probably also quite a bit "marketing". However, maybe this could be even better by CW(A) cooperating a little more. At times, maybe the information flow regarding CW products has been a bit on the low side and sometimes there have been some confusions about fixed or not fixed bugs, releases etc. I can't say in detail how this should be done since it depends a lot on how you plan to take care of business - maybe just appearing more in the forums would make a big difference, maybe some form of bug database, maybe a little more in the FAQ document department...just thinking out loud.

Since I am also a fan of more open software I also just want to take the opportunity to repeat my wishes for an easier accessible platform development-wise. How about switching over to documented file formats on projects and preset files? ;o)

In summary: I believe you have a lot to gain in fueling the community a little more in the future. And since I like my CW stuff and plan to hold on to it, I want to see as much CW prosperity as possible ;o)

thanks for listening.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: devo on 2004-01-31 06:24 ]</font>
User avatar
cannonball
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: italia

Post by cannonball »

hi

some of you would like to see new products(pcix etc) but sorry, i need to use my system at maximum (sfp4 or 3.5 or 3.2the number is not so important),xtc ,no dsp problems(i have 3 card sometime i lost the samplerate),some improvements in mixers and sts series,some new 1:1 dev(like UAD, Behringer convolution reverb, SPLhardware,
Focusrite Liquid for acoustic use etc.) or some little improvements in the old ones(Optimater Psyq Vinco Masterverb), some free analyzer stuff, electric piano e some synths but so important for me.
AND all these thing some for free some not of course(and prices not so redoundant so i can buy more). If need pay for the upgrade,
why not,but honest price.

And last but noy least i have some double thing like modular or mixer and fx packs that i would liketo change for half of theirs prices to creamware for other devices, too much time and complicated sell to others peoples.



Alessandro
User avatar
MikeRaphone
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: slovenia

Post by MikeRaphone »

Dear Mr. Frank,
glad that you will be able to continue your work!
As far as suggestions go I think you should completely renew your website, and have a dedicated team for it(maybe more than one person). It is very important that such things as the shop and personal pages, and the database being down for more than couple of days, do not repeat! I think internet(www) has a lot to do with your public image. Also you should be open in your marketing strategies, telling that even for expirienced users CW(a) cards can be a difficult piece of machinery, but its sonic qualities greatly outweigh the effort we have to put in handling them.
Sincerety is the best policy that always pays off in the long run!
Also giving some sort of public credit to people running and contributing to PlanetZ would be a nice thing to do.


Best regards

Stefan
May all sentient beings achieve liberation from suffering :)
doodyrh
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Neither here nor there.

Post by doodyrh »

On 2004-01-31 06:58, MikeRaphone wrote:
...completely renew your website, and have a dedicated team for it
I'd say that's a prime candidate for outsourcing as Frank mentioned. Let CW staff concentrate on core values.
Stubbe
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Denmark

Post by Stubbe »

I am so glad finally to hear some (good) news in this matter, (almost) everybody have been patient, and I also am curious to learn about...

1) Any shift in the new company's overall strategy (broadcast and B2B vs. Scope, SFP, 3rd party involvment etc.).

2) Whether this could lead to the DP being more open ?

3) Whether the CW forum and FAQ etc. was better off being incorporated into planetz ?
The CW forum has always been slow, lots of info is stated both places, and CW could probably save a lot by only paying for serverspace and maybe some assistance to John Cooper, who is doing a great job here? You mentioned outsourcing yourself :smile: Just a suggestion, you do the math :wink:

4) What is the new long-term plans or intentions regarding future hardware ? It seems to me as if NOAH pulled the plug in the first place (probably not alone), but in the end, the long term future of SFP as we know it is dependent on hardware in one form or another, eventhough this is probably the most expensive to develop and produce compared to SW.

Just my dime

Cheers
Stubbe
inDSP Frank
Creamware Founder
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:00 pm
Contact:

Post by inDSP Frank »

Thanks for all your best wishes and comments!

Let me briefly try to answer some questions:

* DP future
There will only be one package in the future, the complete SDK. One major reason for resticting avail of DP and SDK in the past was that we were not able or willing to provide (complex) support for these tools. We are now looking at a much more permissive circulation of the SDK but on a clear "as is", "use at your own risk" and "no support" basis. It would surely be great to see a community develop where users can obtain help, hints. and ideas. In short - we want to do a much better job with 3rd parties than we have done so far.

* SFP future
No question that we plan to develop the platform further. Same goes for Noah. There are many ideas both re: a possible SFP 4.0 as well as for plugins. We will just need some time to get organized, it is still much too early to make any specific announcements. Anyway, please do not expect any miracles - we won't have a staff count as we had before.

* PCI-X
PCI-X is surely not too far off-topic :wink: But then again - why not replace PCI-X by FireWire/USB2? Would be very interesting to hear your opinions. Please note that all this is not "near future" but "still some way down the road".

* Mac Development
While SFP for OS-X is in a relatively advanced state it is on hold at this time. Today, Noah runs under OS-X very well and we are carefully watching Noahs success in the Mac domain. Later we will need to decide upon SFP for OS-X once again. I'm sorry I don't have any better news for you lore. This does not mean we will never ever go OS-X but it does not seem like a hgh priority at the moment.

*"Does this mean that development was frozen during the period of insolvency?"
Well, first we still did a good deal of development but since October things were indeed very slow.

*two MDs?
Yep, two directors

*Does the new name mean a new direction or emphasis?
It is not meant to. Structures will be different, but not our target markets.

* Is there a CW broadcast branch?
No seperate company, this is part of CWA

* More emulated synths? More effects? Or perhaps encouraging a much-increased third-party effort?
All of it.

* Or even revisiting the audio-processing end with a new TripleDAT or similar ?
How did you know? There will be a new generation of CUTmaster XP (broadcast oriented) soon with x-grade options for tripleDAT users.

* How many cents in the dollar did creditors receive?
This will up to the administrator to determine and this may still take a long time.

* Did staff lose entitlements?
Yes everyone still has entitlements for Nov 2003 but these will propably be paid by the administrator at a high quota later this year.

* how will u handle the frustration that has occured from some developers/musicians/distributors
Work hard on restoring confidence. The past nine months in fact the administrator controlled the company and its cashflow. As we can now work without the administrator, I am sure many things will again get much more efficient, deterministic and reliable.

* please dont do a rerun of the last feew years, frank
u bet we will not

* But the fact is that SFP is so amazing that it simply can no longer go unnoticed.
Marketing SFP is extremely hard as we found again and again. It is not mainstream and it follows a rather complex idea. It requires experience (problem awareness) to really be understood. Try to explain SFP in your simplest words to the average Guitar Center employee - he will have no clue what you are talking about. Just by what it IS it has a niche profile. Try to build a US marketing campaign ("short attention span" compatible) on this basis - good luck! Ideas and help are much appreciated, really....

* put a lot of effort on the noah. that machine is so promising.
We are considering that

* Will finally XTC and normal mode be merged for flexiple routing also in VST mode
I am afraid that such "black hole of functionality" would massively scare off the average VST user. While our channels are asking for "simplicity". What do you think? I am not arguing the technical usefulness of such implementation, you see.

* "PlanetZ - I mean, where would we all be without it?"
SO TRUE

Please - keep in mind that CWA is just a few hours old. Things you would usually take for granted may not yet be in place. Many things still have to be set up, some of which will take us months, not days or weeks. I need to ask you for your continued patience and understanding.

Thanks for your participation in this terrific community!

Frank

PS: The ones who may wonder why I did not appear in CW's own forum yet - I could simply not gain access so far, I must have changed my password and locked myself out <blush>. I can read but not write the forum. This will surely be "fixed" on Monday, can someone please post my regards to the CW forum and ask them to read PlanetZ until I was able to log on our CW forum?
User avatar
next to nothing
Posts: 2521
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Bergen, Norway

Post by next to nothing »

done, frank :smile:
marcuspocus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Canada/France

Post by marcuspocus »

Thanks for all this info Franck.

About PCI-x and other format, i wouldn't want to be locked into a technologies tied to platform, PCI-X, PCI express?

Nah, Firewire/USB2 is the way. Look at Powercore firewire, Digidesign 002, Mackie spike (which also use sharcs), Edirol, M-Audio. They all moving toward firewire/usb2. I bought a tascam fw-1884 lately, because it work with mac,PC, even laptop, and standalone.

I wouldn't buy pci stuff no more, no in this price range anyway. I want future proof stuff.

I want to use my sfp live in standalone mode, and at the studio with sfp. On my friend's mac and my own PC.

I strongly vote for Firewire2/USB2. That's the way of the future.

Marc
Spirit
Posts: 2661
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Terra Australis

Post by Spirit »

Firewire/USB2 for sure.

And thanks for the info.
hubird

Post by hubird »

On 2004-01-31 09:15, CW Frank wrote:
This does not mean we will never ever go OS-X but it does not seem like a hgh priority at the moment.
Along with all the good news, this sounds very scary for us mac based CW users.
I planned to get me a nice G5/3giMHz next summer, assuming that it will be there then.
I thought CW definitely would be ready for OSX then, considering several announcements in the past.
Could you really market CWA without mac support?
If CWA would change from PCI-X to Firewire/USB2 this would solve at least one big issue in porting to OSX.
Definitely my choice BTW!

I can understand you have more urgent problems now, but 'freezing' OSX plans will stop any sellings in the mac community immediately.
It's clear that this will make it even harder to ever get SFP ported to mac...
In the current circumstances I wouldn't bother an extra time delay in OSX devellopment, but I definitely would like to ask you to make up your mind as soon as possible resulting in a new time line for OSX , to keep the mac community on board in the long term.

Wish you all with CWA good luck, thanks for your kind explanations,
hubert :smile:
jtek
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm

Post by jtek »

thanks for the update frank.


About the XTC and SFP mode being merged together, this sounds great, but I always thought this was 'technically impossible' due
to latency issues. Maybe I'm wrong...

however, I would still *love* to see the modular available in XTC.


It would simply be awesome for this community to see some sort general availablity for the DP software, even if it's a no-support software. This software was very expensive before...would a new release of it be free? (wishful thinking)
jtek
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm

Post by jtek »

another thing....the PCI-X issue.


I definitely think the firewire/usb-2 would be the way to go. It would seem easier for the company to support. You wouldn't have to deal the internal issues of running a card inside our computers...conflicts, power, noise..etc. I think may of us have encountered these issues before :wink:

It's also easier to go between pc, mac, and
laptops. Finally, we don't have buy something like a magma case to take our creamware stuff on the road.

now that I think about...I think creamware
should move away from soundcards all together!

How about a rackmounted powerpluser with 16 ins/outs? Imagine a powercore firewire merged with a creamware A16.

too much?
Shayne White
Posts: 1454
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Shayne White »

Thanks for the info, Frank! It looks like you're going to be addressing a lot of the issues we've talked about for years (marketing, SDK, etc.). I really hope you guys can make it!

I, for one, don't think it would be a good move to change SFP to a USB2/FireWire box. For one thing, the chassis would make it even more expensive than it is already. For another thing, neither USB2 nor even FireWire 800 are as fast as PCI, let alone PCI-X. For all the current plugins to continue to work, accessing the main system memory, SFP has to remain PCI. PCI-X is not yet popular in the PC world (unfortunately), but at least a simple change to 3.3v/5v hybrid is needed post haste.

Did anyone ever see that keynote by Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft? He said the thing that made Microsoft #1 was: Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers! So you've got to push for 3rd party support as much as possible, to make SFP truly a "platform." And the SDK should be as readily available as possible. I'v read of several companies in the past complaining that it was not feasible to port anything to SFP because they couldn't do things they wanted with standard DP kit, and it wasn't easy to aquire the SDK. Besides Sonic Timeworks and DADev, I don't know of anyone who ever did! :sad:

It looks like you guys are committed to bringing CW into the future once more, and I'm really excited! Good luck to all of you!

Shayne
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com

Melodious synth music by Binary Sea
http://www.binary-sea.com
User avatar
John Cooper
Moderator
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Planet Z
Contact:

Post by John Cooper »

On 2004-01-31 01:50, Shayne White wrote:
If I remember correctly I believe the "bad news" was that he couldn't tell us anything at the time. So that isn't really bad at all.
Right, that's all it was. Sorry if I worried you there :smile:

It's fantastic to see this dialog opened between Frank and the Z community.

Cheers,
-John
Shayne White
Posts: 1454
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Shayne White »

Oh, one more comment! If SFP for OS X isn't happening right now, then you'd better stop saying you support the Mac on your boxes. It's misleading, for it can't work in any of the computers made within the last year or two. It doesn't work at all in the G5, regardless of OS. You'd better switch back to PC only for a while until voltage changes and OS X software are out.
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com

Melodious synth music by Binary Sea
http://www.binary-sea.com
voidar
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Norway

Post by voidar »

I would love to see a "Pulsar" as a rackmountable device (a brain with sharcs and perhaps some memory, with the different IO options) with Firewire interface. Perhaps there is a way to increase speed by using multiple Firewire ports.
sharcsound
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Post by sharcsound »

Thanks for your reply Frank. I would be happy to have the SFP on Firewire/USB2 if it's even better than PCI-X will be. The point is we need the best for our platform. Let PCI overflow be ancient history. I also have the Tascam fw-1884 controller on my To Buy list. Why not Pulsar Firewire too? It would make the Mac community happy as well. I'd like to see the Pulsar board be the audio board of choice in all the mixing and editing houses that use Nuendo with RME boards.
marcuspocus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Canada/France

Post by marcuspocus »

On 2004-01-31 12:24, Shayne White wrote:
I, for one, don't think it would be a good move to change SFP to a USB2/FireWire box. For one thing, the chassis would make it even more expensive than it is already. For another thing, neither USB2 nor even FireWire 800 are as fast as PCI, let alone PCI-X.
Maybe the box could have it's own memory?

BTW, the price of pulsar today has nothing to do with the price of the hardware itself. It's alot more related to the price of software that it comes with.

I don't know much, but I do know that the market is going to firewire/usb2.

I know that a little thinking can solve a lot of problems, and that it's doable. Digidesign is doing it, powercore is doing it, why not creamware?

I also know that people like me won't buy into PCI stuff anymore just because it's too much a risk that next generation of PCs will again change their PCI slot standards.

At best, i'll keep my pulsar card in a rackmount pc for studio use. Unless i can have an upgrade path to something more 'future proof'.

Well, that are my toughs.
Post Reply