Any experts on ownershiprights in here?

petal · Post by **petal** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:35 am

I have just discovered that the title-melody for a mobile phonegame, that I have been working on for quite a while, can't be published for free, even though that is what the firm behind the game and myself want.

The problem is that I am a member of KODA, which is an organisation that looks after composers interest and see to that they get payd when people use their music. Which is fine in most cases....

In this particular situation I got the chance to make the title-melody for a computergame. The firm behind the game is new and havn't got any money, so the deal was that I made this tune for them for free, because it was a good oppertunity for me in order to try out this buisiness, and help out this upcoming small firm and to maybe get a foot in the door and gain access to future jobs in that firm....

The tune, a polyphonic ringtone, was supposed to be downloadable for free for everyone - Everybody was happy! Untill I found out that Koda insists on charging the firm € 0.15 for each downloaded ringtone.

Result: the tune will never be made available since the firm can't afford this, and they can't make people pay those € 0.15 for the tune, because they don't have a worldwide charging system. This would also include that the firm would have to make special agreements with KODA's buisness partners in those countries where the tune were made available.

Does anyone in here know of any solutions to problem? I just want to get the tune out there, and open buisinessoppertunities for my self - I don't want to make money on this particular tune!

Thomas

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2004-03-25 10:39 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:40 am

petal wrote:

The problem is that I am a member of KODA, which is an organisation that looks after composers interest and see to that they get payd when people use their music.

Sounds to me from what you've said that KODA are an organisation that looks after their own interests and makes sure that they get paid

Leave KODA, give the tune to your game company, then rejoin?

I was wondering if you have received help/benefits from KODA since you have been a member?

If I were in your position...and this project was important to me, then with the information I have to hand (albeit not very much), I'd leave KODA and lock the door behind me. But then again, I don't know how useful they are to you...

Royston

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:44 am

This is just so stupid I have to laugh.

Why own up that it was you ? Just give the company the tune and they can say that the company director's four-year-old daughter composed it on a casio.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:20 pm

perhaps Petal wants to get mentioned as a composer ?

it's exactly the same procedure as with the GEMA (the german equivalent) - as a GEMA member you're usually excluded from mag's contests because the publisher would be charged for those (winner) titles appearing on CDs or played elseway in public.

I don't know enough about legal stuff, but I would carefully check my existing contracts before setting up a couple of artist names

On the other hand those companies can be very convenient.
I once read that the co-author of a Sade album title (not even one of her hits) actually could make a living from just that single piece of work, because the tremendous airplay worldwide.

cheers, Tom

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:38 pm

Spirit gave the only possible solution....after all the important thing is that the company knows and you have a good contact with them. And sometimes I hate cell phones so much, that being anonimous is not so bad

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:46 pm

Check with them if you can exclude a title from the catalog (it is possible in some EU countries since a few years i think). If not, well, i don't think there's anything to do (except the above workarounds, but i guess it's not advised). May be you can change a few notes and remain anonymous. As those companies generally do not deal with copy protection but right collection (confirm that), it shouldn't be too risky for your copyrights. But those are not great solutions i think.
I hope it helps anyway.

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-03-25 18:53 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:52 pm

On 2004-03-25 18:46, spacef wrote:
Check with them if you can exclude a title from the catalog (it is possible in some EU countries since a few years i think).

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-03-25 18:48 ]

In Italy, with S.I.A.E. , and I guess rules are similar, You are not allowed to keep compositions unregistered, so you have to do it as anonymous.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:55 pm

I think in France you can (i've been told), not everyday, but it's possible. But the title has to be registered (if it is not, you cannot exclude it). Anonymous : not the "anonymous author" status (which exists here too

) but the "no it's not me who did" workaround (not advised : bis). Here you can also exclude it from a certain period of time (i think that's the rule, like charity concerts, records...), may be not "in perpetuity".

edit : alfonso : if you are a member of those companies you are obliged to declare what you compose and all of it, that's for sure. any other behaviour is totally not advised for any reason. it could be a criminal offense, watch out!

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-03-25 19:10 ]

petal · Post by **petal** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:00 pm

Thanks for the answers!

It seems that Astroman managed to explain the situations pros and cons of being a member of KODA and organizations like it, better than I could in my post.

When I signed up a yeah ago, I only did it in order to protect my stuff and maybe earn a little money if some of it got played some where - I never in my wildest dreams imagined a situation where I couldn't give my work away for free if I wanted to do just that!

I can't just do the trick with unjoining KODA cause even though I unjoin tommorow they will still be "looking out for my interests" untill the 31th of december 2005......DOH!

Had I only been a traditional musician doing music for records and radio KODA is an excellent organisation to be a member of - Actually it would be foolish of me not to be.

But in this situation I just want to help an upcoming computergame developer and myself get started, I'm just not allowed to do it for free.... The situation is absurd!

Thomas

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:45 pm

It is a sad situation for you Petal.

I still find the strict KODA rules to be usefull. If composers where aloved to give away their work ... I could easily see a lot of creative workarounds for companies, who wants "every third som for free" - or other nasty stuff.

The rule is there for our protection, and sometimes being protected is closely related to being restricted. It counts in many other aspects of life too...

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:18 am

On 2004-03-25 18:55, spacef wrote:
edit : alfonso : if you are a member of those companies you are obliged to declare what you compose and all of it, that's for sure. any other behaviour is totally not advised for any reason. it could be a criminal offense, watch out!

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-03-25 19:10 ]

The concept is complex. The conflict arises only at the stage where a certain composition is publically related to a composer. The criminal action (and it's not criminal in any way, it only brings sanctions in the private domain as descending from the contract signed between the parts) arises when a formally recognizable event is against a rule that rules on that particular formally defined cathegory.

If I say that I'm not the inventor of that melody, because I copied what a bird was singing in my garden or what my grandmother used to sing as a lullaby or if I just don't claim to be the author, no conflict arises, nobody can say that it's mine what I don't claim it is. So the fact itself is out of the field of the rule, that only obliges to register what I compose.

What the rule is supposed to avoid, is that a publically recognized property is not under the signed contract of exclusivity.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:33 am

no its civil but may be in country they could chop your head off. About public property i never heard of that. here it is private company and private civil contract (private property, a public broadcast etc). Here those companies do not deal with protection, it is only collection of royalties (no such things as copyright "per se" in france). protetection is indirect.
I'd gladely continue ask you quetsion (you seem to be the specialist, i am not at all )
(oh ok, i see, i misunderstood the term "publicly recognized property", private property communicated to the public, yes i understand now, i agree with that

...)

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-03-26 04:01 ]

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-03-26 06:03 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:40 am

but the thing is that if you do not already began a commercial "carreer" it is useless to be come a member of those companies, as you cannot propose your songs for free except exceptions (At least i can only talk about France. the main point is that they don't deal with protection so it is not always a good idea to try to become a member (indirectly, when you register a title, it has a proof of the time it was registered, but it could be done before, but it is not their business, there are other companies or ways to protect).
but there are people inside those houses, there are always ways to arrange (depends who you talks too for sure, here be dragons too)..

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-03-26 03:51 ]

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:46 am

With KODA, you can send your song in, when you register it. This way, they can help you proove, that you actually had it composed at said date - if others come up with something suspiciously equal to your work.