Cheapest way to record on location?

WayneSim · Post by **WayneSim** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:08 pm

I've been considering expanding my Audio repertoire. Expanding beyond the studio/music composition and into location recording. Mainly for sound FX.

I have looked at a few portable DAT machines and the price basically killed me. Not that I didn't expect it. However Im basically looking at this venture as a secondary avenue.

I need something to start me off. If I get good enough, sure I will pay for the top of the range portable DAT. But I course I would have to actually make money from sound FX for that to happen.

Would a minidisc with a good mic do the job? A Rode NT3 seems like a good cheap mic that i could even use in the studio. What are your thoughts on the NT3 for location recording?

What recording device do people recommend?
What Mic do people recommend?

I obviously have all the software and hardware to edit the sounds. Plus a good ear always helps

.

Thanks

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:27 pm

I don't think MiniDisc is sufficient (16bit/ 44,1kHz/ ATRAC). You could check this out:
http://www.core-sound.com/

Core offers a system using a handheld PC (IPAQ) with 24/96 (up to 192kHz) recording for $ 199 (plus an IPAQ if you don?t have one already), and a portable battery-powered dual channel mic preamp with 24/96 A/D converter for $ 499.

[ This Message was edited by: wsippel on 2004-04-10 23:28 ]

WayneSim · Post by **WayneSim** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:58 pm

Thanks for your fast reply.

I must say that this system looks nice!

Can you explain what each thing does in normal terms. Mic2496 is a mic pre $499, I understand that. Do I then need a memory card to record onto? What is an iPAQ? Then do I need one of their mics?

Sorry, but there web page is very lame in explaining things. Great product by the looks of it. Just they aren't to good at explaining things.

Also it seems expensive once you add all the things they recommend!

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:59 am

I dislike Minidiscs for many reasons. I also have a DAT player, but that's really a barely surviving niche technology.

You might like to consider something like this:
http://www.mpzoo.com/

WayneSim · Post by **WayneSim** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:05 am

Thanks for the link Spirit.

I'm not a huge fan of MP3. However I do think 320kb/s MP3's are good.

*MP3Dictate* (from link)
MP3 Encoding (line-in): 32 – 256 Kb/s (Near CD Quality = 128 Kb/s)
MP3 Encoding (mic): 08 – 112 Kb/s

I know I said "cheap" but from a MIC to a MP3 at 112kb/s. At that price in all honesty the biggest rip off!!!

I know that minidisc's do compress the audio to some extent. So... well.... ???

I guess all that I would like is something that records in CD quailty 16 bit, 44.1k. For a resonable price.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:51 am

This was debated a few months back without any decent resolution. Some said minidisc, others the portastudio thingy, some said the Olympus dicatation devices were OK (usually worse resolution that the MP3 recorder though).

I have a look around from time to time but IMHO there is still not a decent (and cheap) mobile recording option.

Minidisc is as close as it gets at present, but that's a dead-end technology as well. And I hate having so many different formats...

So for now the best and cheapest format in my opinion is cassette tape. A good walkman with decent tape and a good mic.

Robust but not glamourous, very cheap but not CD quality...

[ This Message was edited by: Spirit on 2004-04-11 04:52 ]

Thalamus · Post by **Thalamus** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:12 pm

Hi,

This has been under discussion before as stated. The link is here: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 6&forum=31

I also replied to that thread, and as a correction to that, I must say that the creative software got ALOT better...

Happy searching.

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:25 pm

@WayneSim

The IPAQ is a handheld PC by HP, check
http://www.ipaq.com/
The mic preamp is exactly that, a portable preamp with analog to digital converter - you don't need to use that one, but it's small and portable, and well suited for the system. And you can use any professional mic if the specs match...
The IPAQ can be expanded with CompactFlash or SD, but you could also use small harddiscs, Hitachi Microdrive for example.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:39 pm

That Ipaq audio site is so confusing (the audio one, not the HP site). I have an Ipaq, but that CF solution looks a bit pricey to me. I don't suppose anyone knows of a "mic-in" solution for Ipaq's ?

Most PDAs can easily record at CD-quality - it's just that they don't have a mic-in jack and so rely on the built-in mic.

Strange to have excellent recording abailities, but no way to really take advantage of them...

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:47 pm

@Spirit

Right, any IPAQ can record at 16bit/ 44.1kHz, but the Core module adds 24bit/ 96kHz IO, and even 192kHz, depending on the IPAQ. And Core's dynamic range and signal-to-noise is much better than using the built in audio chip... If your PC has onboard AC97 audio, you'll still go out and buy a RME, M-Audio, MOTU or Lynx for pro-IO (or a CW, for that matter)
If the onboard sound suits your needs, you don't need this module, of course...

[ This Message was edited by: wsippel on 2004-04-11 21:54 ]

borg · Post by **borg** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:37 am

well, you can say what you want about minidisk, but for 'field recording', my oooold sony mz-r50 (still going strong all gaffa'd up) and ecm-ms907 stereo mic do a fine job at a reasonable price.
the initial question was about something to start with and give it a first go. i'm sure the offered suggestion will give great results, but to me, the price seems a bit steep just to give 'environmental recordings' a try.

WayneSim · Post by **WayneSim** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:40 am

Thanks everyone for your help!

I have come to the conclusion that I really want something that can record in at least 16/44.1 .WAV or at worst 320kb MP3. Becasue I think it would make everything so much easier to record the sounds to a "file". Then it's just a simple dump onto the PC for editing, most likely via USB. Now it's just the hard part to find that perfect device! A clean mic pre built in and we are set! (Although, i'm hoping it wont be too expensive)

I think i'm set on getting a Rode NT3 mic.

"Core offers a system using a handheld PC (IPAQ) with 24/96 (up to 192kHz) recording for $ 199" Can I plug a mic into this device? Or do I need a mic pre as well?

WayneSim · Post by **WayneSim** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:47 am

On 2004-04-12 04:37, borg wrote:
well, you can say what you want about minidisk, but for 'field recording', my oooold sony mz-r50 (still going strong all gaffa'd up) and ecm-ms907 stereo mic do a fine job at a reasonable price.
the initial question was about something to start with and give it a first go. i'm sure the offered suggestion will give great results, but to me, the price seems a bit steep just to give 'environmental recordings' a try.

Even though in my first post I want something to "start with". I was really compairing the price to a top of the range portable DAT. Now that I'm starting to see what I can get for far less money I'm excited.

Although I'd still like to have 1 device that records with a mic in for around $250 USD. Then I add an NT3 mic. And i think it's a good set up. Although I'm still looking around for that device...

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:25 am

Persoanlly I would go with the Sony Net MD Walkman Recorder with AM/FM/TV-Audio/Weather-Band Tuner Remote because it is on sale for $149 at Best Buy. Then a few years down the road I would replace it with something that uses flash memory for long battery life. Flash memory is cheap for 125 megs but we need more than that. I'm sure the price will drop and the memory increase.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:57 am

Yep, I think the technology is in transition, which is why I've been waiting. Trouble is I've been waiting for about 18 months now...

WayneSim · Post by **WayneSim** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:01 pm

I agree. However I kind of need a "on location" recording setup very soon.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:51 pm

I think you're down to three simple options:

- A good tape cassette walkman + mic
- The MP3 recorder A$400 + mic)
- Minidisc (probably about $400 + mic)

WayneSim · Post by **WayneSim** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:43 am

I think I'm leaning toward a MD recorder becasue they are cheaper and in some ways better than an MP3 recorder. Only Wav/mp3 recorders with a mic-in are the iRiver HP100, HP120 ect.. range.. And they are very expensive.

So I think i'm going to hunt down a second hand MD recorder with a good mic-in. Add an NT3 and I think it should serve me well.

As you have pointed out Spirit there is not much out there. I now believe you! Becasue I've spent hours searching around the net for the perfect device. It's either something like this http://www.sonicsense.com/marantzpmd670.htm
Or as mentioned http://www.core-sound.com/

Then the only other choice is a cheaper lesser quailty MD recorder. Mp3/Wav devices are not up to stratch IMO.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:24 pm

You should consider a little battery powered preamp if you buy a MD recorder. This will greatly reduce the hiss.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:37 pm

wayne
about mp3 encoder
hmm, i asume that mic in is mono
so 112 kb/s for mono signal ain't that bad
if 128 for stereo is near cd quality?