V-DAT Quality

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:17 pm

Played around with it for a couple of hors today and I have to say the quality is delicious,even at 16 bit.Will try 24 bit and looking forward to it.Feel it bypasses all those nasty drivers and sequencer algorithms.
What do you guys think?Even beats Samlitudes quality.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:56 am

Agreed completely, VDAT is THE recording app.

Were audio qualities are kept with no compromise.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:04 am

Excuse me for asking, but what would make VDAT any better than recording in, say, Sound Forge? Doesn't it just record pure digital data from the sound card?

Shayne

Post by **garyb** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:22 am

all apps are not the same(sounding)....

maybe it has something to do with summing...

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:35 am

Errrr... What does VDAT sum?

gedas · Post by **gedas** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:54 am

Just try simultaneously recording the same take in Cubase and VDAT at the same resolution. Compare the result and I'm sure you'll hear the difference...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:11 am

Yes, exactly, the audio is kept 32bit integer inside sfp (and vdat) while it goes to 32 float to pass thru driver at best (asio2-32 64), and get worst going thru wav driver (24bits). Also can add 'some' jitter due to OS layer.

In sfp/VDAT, it direct, natural, like a real tape.

There IS a difference. Try what has been said :

Same inputs goes direct to vdat and then to asio dest to record in SX/Nuendo/Logic/Samplitude/wavelab or thru wav driver to send to soundforge/cooledit etc...

Then compare

You''l be amazed

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:27 am

Now if Creamware just expand V-DAT into a fully fledged sequencer i can get rid of Cubase for ever.

How easy is it to use alongside a sequencer package? ie. can you use MIDI sequences from Cubase whilst syncing the audio from V-DAT (sorry for my ignorance, but i never really got V-DAT). Yet another possible purchase looms ahead...

Mr A

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2004-07-20 08:27 ]

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:14 am

how do you do automation with vdat ? is it possible to sync it with samplitude or nuendo for example ? and manage the CC mess into them ?

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:12 am

Happy to know my ears are still good.
Can it be synched to samplitude or cubase for MIDI?
Gonna read manual tonight.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:53 am

It Cubase/Nuendo/Samplitude that's gonna sync to vdat.

Vdat is ALWAYS master.

You use the asio dest clk in to clock Nuendo/SX

You can assign buttons from the VRC-S to Midi CC to start/stop/rewind/forward/set locator/ etc...

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:32 am

OK guys, thanks for the info, but I don't have VDAT! I *do* have the STS though, which does the same 32-bit recording; does it use the same algorithms as VDAT? I'll check it out for recording.

Shayne

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:37 am

On 2004-07-20 07:54, gedas wrote:
Just try simultaneously recording the same take in Cubase and VDAT at the same resolution. Compare the result and I'm sure you'll hear the difference...

On 2004-07-20 08:11, marcuspocus wrote:
Yes, exactly, the audio is kept 32bit integer inside sfp (and vdat) while it goes to 32 float to pass thru driver at best (asio2-32 64), and get worst going thru wav driver (24bits). Also can add 'some' jitter due to OS layer.

In sfp/VDAT, it direct, natural, like a real tape.

There IS a difference. Try what has been said :

Same inputs goes direct to vdat and then to asio dest to record in SX/Nuendo/Logic/Samplitude/wavelab or thru wav driver to send to soundforge/cooledit etc...

Then compare

You''l be amazed

I dont have myself VDAT, and there is not any more demos on the CWA site.

Could you please do such a comparison for us and download it on PlanetZ for us to hear, please?

Thank you!

ibz01 · Post by **ibz01** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:13 pm

Hello, I've been reading about the quality of V-DAT and I would ask you some details.
I try to explain in my poor english what I usually do.
I'm recording classic music with small chamber groups. When I record I do it with sometimes 8 tracks at the same time. And I need to edit all tracks together (for example, when I have to cut one track, I have to cut all tracks in the same point ) For this I can't edit with Sound Forge or Wavelab. I have to do it with a multitrack sequencer, like cubase or nuendo.
My question is: if I record with V-DAT and with it's quality, will I loose this quality when I play the tracks in nuendo?

Thank-you

[ This Message was edited by: ibz01 on 2004-07-20 13:14 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:46 pm

the VDAT and VRC128 manuals are a regular part of the SFP documentation - have a look at the chapter about bouncing tracks.
Imho the procedure described might well apply to classic recordings.
Possibly one could do the main cuts in VDAT alone and fine tune cues and fades on the final stereo track in the mastering app.

cheers, Tom

jabney · Post by **jabney** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:09 pm

Hi ibz01,

I use Sound Forge 6 to edit VDAT files now and then. By 'unloading' the 'tape' (click "Stop" until it starts blinking) it is possible to edit individual tracks. What I had to get used to was making sure that the file stayed the same length as its peers. For example, say there's a short 'bzzzt' on the guitar amp channel. You can overwrite with silence, or use the pencil tool to redraw the wave, or use the SF software compresser to overwrite.

I agree with Tom's recommendation to do overall fades on the final stereo tracks; but if you pay careful attention to the time-line, you can do it all - cuts included - in Sound Forge.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:13 pm

My question is: if I record with V-DAT and with it's quality, will I loose this quality when I play the tracks in nuendo?

Thank-you

[ This Message was edited by: ibz01 on 2004-07-20 13:14 ]

Yes,I think Steinberg audio engine is worst of bunch,but if you have pristine converters and excellent mics in first place you will have a better chance.
In my view,on a semi pro budget the difference in quality is massive.

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:24 pm

VDAT can be "slaved" in the sense that you can assign MIDI controls to the start, stop, ffwd, rewind, etc, and locate buttons of the remote control. It's really not designed for sequencing, exactly. But if you're just doing starts and stops and you want Cubase or some external trigger to control everything, VDAT will certainly "slave" to it.

As far as word clock, VDAT can be slaved to an external one but then you lose the advantages of the VRC-S remote control.

VDAT does have a major disadvantage IMHO. The "formatted tape" approach (you have to set aside a chunk of disk space before you start recording). This is acceptable in most scenarios but untenable other times. I would be hesitant to use VDAT for recording live gigs, for example.

Editing the WAV files with a sequencer isn't hard though. Disengage the tape, pull them into a sequencer for easy editing, close the sequencer and re-load the VDAT project and voila! Edited tracks.

My favourite part about VDAT is the 128 tracks. Sweet. Nuendo via ASIO is limited to 64. I really want to produce an Oasis song one of these days!

Incidentally does anyone know what the status of that CutMaster app is? It's supposed to be more sequencer-ish than VDAT...

Cheers,

Johann

Post by **garyb** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:58 pm

soon come.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:04 pm

On 2004-07-20 14:24, blazesboylan wrote:
VDAT does have a major disadvantage IMHO. The "formatted tape" approach (you have to set aside a chunk of disk space before you start recording). This is acceptable in most scenarios but untenable other times. I would be hesitant to use VDAT for recording live gigs, for example.

Well, for me it's an advanyage. That's thre reason that make it capable of recording that much tracks.

And, it's also a security for me, because i usualy use vdat primarily to record live gigs

It never failed me.

Using it with a sequencer? nah...

Recording acoustics stuff, then using it in a sequencer, that's better, for me anyway...