What would be the easiest way to achieve this effect..

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:03 am

Hi all,

Since I do not know exactly what to call this I will explain it in as best as I can, I have tried a few way to achieve the result I am looking for with fair resuslts but not perfect so here goes

What I am trying to do is have soft or a reversed reflection of a kick drum, but the reflection cant have the thump of the kick its supposed to be more like a reverb that plays in between the kick, this is a commonly used technic in dance music, mainly 4/4 style kick drum patters.

So it looks like this:

(1)Kick/reflects(2)kick/reflect(3)kick/reflect(4)kick/reflect

The reflect or what ever you would call this comes in on the down beat like an open hat would. The way I have tried to achieve this sound is to use a verb and tweak the predelay far enough that it comes in where the hat would, but even with that it still sounds to abrupt, it needs to be ramped like a reverse kick but just the verb sound of it.

I hope I explained this well enough, if you want a perfect idea of what I am talking about listen to " Tiesto's Traffic " he uses the sound on the kick and a 909 closed hat and when its all going together it really fills in the holes to give the track a more big room sound, nice trick just cant get exactly what I am looking for, any one know exactly how to do this?

Cheers!

Eon · Post by **Eon** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:01 pm

I have made this before and I will try to explain you how.

Firstly you have to find good sample of kick and put it thru the masterverb, reverse the verb and make a loop so you can hear in relatime what are you doing. After that just find where is the reverse reflection. It has to be in the middle of two kicks.

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:53 pm

Sounds like you're talking about the pumping effect you get from extreme compression....try experimenting with a compressor after the reverb, maybe sidechained from the kick itself - alter attack and release times to get different effects ???

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:20 pm

Hey those are both preat ideas, now that I think about it, it sort of sounds like it could work with a combination of both your ideas

Maybe record the kick with a nice verb on it then reverse the audio and the squash the hell out of it to create as you said the pumping effect.

Ill try that this eve

Thanks!

pavig · Post by **pavig** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:25 pm

Hi

The way I've acheived this is a lot simpler than trying to rework the kick sound, as i haven't found a really precise sounding compression/verb combo (which is the textbook way of doing it) which works. The other textbook way is to duplicate the kick track into a kick with much longer decay then compress that sidechained from the first so the tail swells up. Hard to get right also. Third way I've heard is sidechain compressing a bass sound that follows the kick, also hard.

Pulsar has got so many synths, why not just duplicate the kick track in sequencer, set the note lengths to something useful, then tweak away. Get yourself a bass sound that's got a nice distorted low sine tone fundamental, add some pink/white noise for a bit of air (or early reflection verb) and play with the attack time. You should be able to get a nice complimentary sound that will well up after the kick and give you that droidy compression pump that you need, and it's much more precise than trying to twist the sounds you may have at hand into the right shape. You should be able to minutely tweak the timing as well by shifting the note ons/offs in your sequencer.

This is something I came up with out of frustration with trying to get the effect you describe through the methods that engineers I'd talked to advocate. After tearing my hair out for ages. The only reason you'd bother to use compressors and verbs to resynthesize a kick into a completely unrelated sound is if it was difficult to employ a propper synthesizer. Why not just use a synth?

On 2004-07-26 12:03, Basic Pitch wrote:

What I am trying to do is have soft or a reversed reflection of a kick drum, but the reflection cant have the thump of the kick its supposed to be more like a reverb that plays in between the kick, this is a commonly used technic in dance music, mainly 4/4 style kick drum patters.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:16 am

hoi,

Cheers for the tips above

One other way to obtain this pumping effect can be by using a reversed (no need for recording, it can be done w a switch) ER reverb on the kick, mixing them and squeezing the dynamics out of it.

If you want it more 'melodical', program a bassline, SC compress it from the kick with fast attack and release, like just before it start to click (shorter than the bass' wavelenght), with low threshold and high ratio - or is that mentioned before? You could also put an envelope follower on the kick going thru Flexor's half inverter to the bass' VCA. I always exagerrate with these effects, it's tempting to get cheesy

I love the sidechaining option or at least often use it as a means of having instruments interfere with each other on in a way that doesn't just work on dynamics , but on various modulation parameters.

at0m.

Eon · Post by **Eon** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:52 am

On 2004-07-26 16:20, Basic Pitch wrote:
Hey those are both preat ideas, now that I think about it, it sort of sounds like it could work with a combination of both your ideas

Maybe record the kick with a nice verb on it then reverse the audio and the squash the hell out of it to create as you said the pumping effect.

Ill try that this eve

Thanks!

Yes you r right, I will try this also

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:29 am

Hi all,

At0mic, when you say a switch to reverse (ER?) the samples what exactly do you mean? I have been playing with this and have tried a few things with some form of success

I used masterverb pro and vinco, 1st on a kick drum I wanted to start the track with a low cut filter on the kick to make it sound more like a snapy bass with out sub and use the formentioned effect on that, so after applying the filter I then loaded masterverb on the channel and then the vinco.

I set the masterverb pro to use a predelay and reversed the delay and then had to cut the definiton so it sounded more like white noise, I then played with the position of the delay so the kick was very distinct and then the reverse would show up, I then put a hard comp on the sound to try and lift the pumping effect, it worked for the most part, but required heavy tweaking of the high and low cuts on the masterverb pro to try and smooth out the pumping sound, otherwise it would sound like a very fast delay.

This worked much better on a clap because of the nature of the sound

Ill keep trying to I find a perfect and simple solution since I want to use this sound on the kick, clap, and a single closed 909 hat, with all them going at the same time to create a sort of synced movement of puming sound

Cheers!

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:42 am

Oops - it says Invert, not Reverse.

It's a bit of searching before the right time etc are found, it has to end right where the next kick starts, but I've used this a couple of times for the purpose that you mention.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:02 am

On 2004-07-29 11:42, at0m|c wrote:
Oops - it says Invert, not Reverse.

I guessed this was what you were reffering to, but what about that switch you speak of?

Cheers!

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:26 am

Euhm... that's the switch I ment

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:04 am

Hahaha,

Ok its morning here cut me some slack