PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

It would be CRAZY and almost SUICIDAL for Soniccore not to support Flexor.
I can't believe this will happen. It means all the 3rd party -eg SpaceF stuff and John Bowen's stuff is also f****d for the new platform (apart from Solaris 5). This seems ridiculous!
I really think someone got the wrong end of the stick here - perhaps Soniccore haven't got round yet to contact Red_Muze as they are too busy with their own stuff at the moment!

wow, i never expected such a reaction for a small post in a forum no one reads..

I will post a formal note tomorrow on planetz and adern, explaining the future of flexor.

there is no point petitioning at our site. since the reason we will not support scope is because SonicCore are demanding half of our income. you already know how cheap flexor is, and the balance between the RnD quality and Price is something i have always been proud of. Doubling flexor's price is not an option as i do not believe in musical instruments for the rich. music should be affordable to make for everybody.
and we are committed to continue creating the best modular system in the best possible price.

if FleXor runs on scope 5, is all a matter of SonicCore allowing it. it is their system and they have the control. we will continue selling FleXor through the same channel any case.

if you realy want to have flexor for xite, try emailing holger, as he doesn't understand what flexor means to scope. he has not tried flexor once.

regarding flexor's future. please hold speculations until tomorrow when the formal note is released. the future is bright

Many thanks for clarifying that Red.

Everything up until now that i'd heard about XITE was sweet. This is BAD

Im not sure what SonicCores cut was for 3rd parfty devs before but im guessing that its changed and 50% does seem extremely high! Can you imagine how far XITE would get if Analog Devices wanted a 50% cut cos their Sharcs are inside? It wouldnt happen-simple as!

Im personally very disappointed at this news as I thought that one of the strongest aspects of the scope system was the 3rd party devs.

Guess we better start emailing to get Holger of his ass and try Flexor!!

indeed 50% is high for hardware protection. we are talking about existing ready-made products which sonic-core had nothing to do with until now (one of them is an amaizingly lush guitar amplifier alfonso has created using flexor technology, the other is a waveshaping synthesizer with 10 poly all flexor technology ill stop teasing...).

hi assaf,

thanks for your somehow less vague explanations.

ReD_MuZe wrote:there is no point petitioning at our site. since the reason we will not support scope is because SonicCore are demanding half of our income.

hm, but don't they do that with anybody else? and don't they already do that right now? it's not the first time I hear about that 50% quote...

Doubling flexor's price is not an option as i do not believe in musical instruments for the rich. music should be affordable to make for everybody.

that's a very noble thing, indeed. but if that means music won't be made with flexor anymore, at least with scope, it would be a loss one should rethink about... (well, that is not addressed to you alone, of course)

if FleXor runs on scope 5, is all a matter of SonicCore allowing it. it is their system and they have the control.

that reads like it applies to copies of flexor to be sold in the future.

what about the simple technical compatibility of f3 with scope5? are there really technical reasons, or is it all political? will S|C prevent f3 from running on scope5, even for users who bought it earlier, or will they just not generate new keys for new customers if you don't send them half of the income?
you're not gonna tell us they want half of the income from already sold copies posthumous for giving out keys for existing customers, are you? (please say no here)

-greetings, markus-

you're not gonna tell us they want half of the income from already sold copies posthumous for giving out keys for existing customers, are you? (please say no here)

Dear! no!

phew. so there is a chance f3 is running on scope5, and everybody who already bought f3 will be permitted to use it on scope5, or is this just a freudian thought of mine?

ReD_MuZe wrote:there is no point petitioning at our site. since the reason we will not support scope is because SonicCore are demanding half of our income.

I have decided to boycott SC, avoiding the purchase of Xite up to clarifications to the policy on third-party.
I wait for Red Muze clarification tomorrow.
Thanks Red for your intervention

kylie wrote:phew. so there is a chance f3 is running on scope5, and everybody who already bought f3 will be permitted to use it on scope5, or is this just a freudian thought of mine?

Thats up to soniccore.

kylie wrote:it's not the first time I hear about that 50% quote...

I thought that had been the case for several years now & isn't something new that SC have introduced. I guess it meant that they (Creamware, now Sonic Core) would provide protection, promotion, sales & distribution as well as key transfers for the commercial devices in question. If so, then it doesn't seem like a particularly bad deal, all things considered. My big question would be - is this actually about the new protection system, will we be able to run plugs that don't use that new system & does it extend to all plugs including those made with the existing sdk?

~Mark

I WILL NOT BUY XITE-1 after this news.

I WILL NOT upgrade to Scope 5.

If Red_Muze goes to another platform - I'm happy with it - he's a great synth designer / coder - it's a loss to the Scope Users but that's SC fault

I want to use Flexor - I'm not upgrading to Scope 5 and losing Flexor's functionality.

I'm spending my money on upgrading to Flexor 3 now !!

.oO( this would be about the perfect time for ralf, holger and/or juergen to jump in and say something official... )

the Flexor price could be raised. i'm assuming it doesn't need to be doubled to achieve a reasonable profit margin. it would still be very inexpensive.

As i stated on the Flexor Forum, i really hope Sonic Core and Adern work things out. Modular 3 and Flexor no doubt is a large part of the HEART of the SCOPE Platform and is one of the MAIN attractions for many of us. Flexors absence would leave a big voide in XITE-1 and may take much away from the upgrade appeal to XITE-1 and Platform 5 for me and others. I hope both Adern and Sonic Core both see eye-to-eye and see each others importance. Flexor is a big part of SCOPE'S identity for some of us and should not become it's Native-rival. I don't think Native is good solution for Flexor but it's not my product and nothing i can do, I hope both Adern and Sonic Core are willing to compromise to some extent for the good of this beloved SCOPE Platform to ensure it's rise to greatness, wich i believe will come if both parties work together and both understand each others importance. The Native world i believe will lead to devaluation of Great products, and now should be the time to Ride each other to Glory not divide to separate platforms to compete against each other.

There is no level of sound-quality in Native world to that of Flexor imo despite the fact computers have gotten far more powerful. I think Modular and Flexor is high-end technology and i would choose them over anything, even the best hardware, so bar-none is my stance. I also believe quality has it's price so i would buy Flexor again if the price where raised, and i think Flexor as high-end soundquality deserves high-end protection wich is the continuose use of the SCOPE's Hardware. If someone is unwilling to accept the protection and the price then the quality is'nt for them. How important is your music if you are unwilling to make any great sacrifice for it? The current price of Flexor was high for me especially since the USA dollar is weak but i still would pay even more because i am aware of it's quality and contribution to my music and i seriously believe many more people will pay more to, and such people will become SCOPE users if both Sonic Core and Adern will work together and even compromise to some extent if need be. Give the new XITE-1 and Platform 5 a chance and i am confident this platform will grow and have it's Day! A Day that should've come long ago but now this Platform is far stronger and simply will not be denied at some point in the near future if Growth continues. This is a critical point in time for the SCOPE Platform and great opportunity for both parties is present if Adern and SCOPE Remain in Marriage. I hope the good of the Platform is considered by both, as i'm sure both parties love SCOPE greatly.

I agree.

I hope Red_Muze and SC can work something out.

But if Red_Muze want's to go elsewhere there is nothing we can do - I just can't understand SC attitude in this - I'm sure other platforms would snap up Flexor technology if given half the chance - I am bit dismayed with what is going on.

I also agree that people will pay a higher charge for the Flexor stuff - but also other users will lose out

I am just a bit pissed off that we even have to bother with this....scope and flexor is the thing to have...i mean ...cmon...i do not care what it will cost with the 50% thingy...really please sort it out!

erminardi wrote:Do you wish that SONIC CORE supports Flexor/Adern for the new Scope 5.0 OS and for xite?

Here the place for your sign.

http://www.adern.com/home/modules.php?n ... opic&t=616

Then we send everything to S|C attention.

Erminardi

Hi all,

currently we are testing all 3rd party devices
on SCOPE 5 and XITE which looks good so far.

We are very surprised about Assaf's announcement
not to support SCOPE 5 and SCOPE XITE-1 and we
are curious about the statement he wants to
place tomorrow. Of course I agree that Flexor is
a great plug-in. But we are not involved in Assaf's
plans. We never had any arrangement with Assaf
and we did not participate in Flexor3 sales.

Regards
S|C - Holger

What would be the position for existing Flexor owners if they upgrade to Scope 5?

Perhaps an upgrade fee for Flexor for existing owners who want to use Flexor in Scope 5?

Perhaps Red_Muze could chuck a couple of modules in as well? eg Flexor 3.5 for Scope v5?

Or SC and Adern can come to a deal - but that's if they want to, of course!

I do believe "the whole is greater then the sum of it's parts". Sonic Core, Adern and the many third-party and SDK developers i think will generate more interest together then apart in the long run. I think XITE-1 is worth a lot of money, and believe that it is the best starting point for Sonic Core to go after the highend Market first before the low-budget consumers market and establish reputation first. The Jewels of the Platform such as Flexor have a worth that justifies a higher cost but if such goes completely against Adern's beliefs then i somewhat understand. But a higher price is not bad in my eyes even if i could not afford it for a longtime. I think Lower price looks worser. I think Native looks worser. Quality has its cost.


P.S. Thank you Holger for giving us some info!

I am sad, but optimisitc.

Hopefully a little arbitration can resolve this. I don't consider myself rich, except in Spirit, but I would be honored to continue using these tools in XITE-1 for an upgrade fee. I just hope that those who wish to use FIII in a Scope 5.0 DAW can continue to do so, as Modular & Flexor are like peas and carrots, they go together well.