PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

actually, the 240s are closed back. the 240df is the semi open version. the 240df has a very flat, un-hyped response.

Actually, the K240S models are semi-open. I am pretty sure any K240 series headphone is semi-open design.

http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=K240S

AKG271's are about as flat as the Rockies. Good for tracking and comfortable but noise rejection isn't nearly as good as the old black and white Beyer whatevers. I got some Senn HD595's as well as the Beyer's and AK's. For no particular reason other than that's what I could pick up quick, like now. AK's plastic ear pads deteriorate fast and getting bits in UK is a coupla weeks if you're lucky. Don't know about the new AK271's. I will not use headphone's for mixing. Senn's are OK but they don't go very LOUD!! Best one's I had were some Stax square things. Mind you, even they were useless for mixing.

ns

krizrox wrote:Actually, the K240S models are semi-open. I am pretty sure any K240 series headphone is semi-open design.

http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=K240S

nope, i have 6 pair and the backs are definitely closed. AKG calls them "semi open" but i don't know why. the backs of the drivers are sealed. it may have something to do with the earpad and driver being two parts. the driver swivels inside the plastic part that holds the earpad. they might not be as good as a truly "sealed" one piece earpiece as far as leakage goes, but they're pretty good sealing still...

garyb wrote:

krizrox wrote:Actually, the K240S models are semi-open. I am pretty sure any K240 series headphone is semi-open design.

http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=K240S

nope, i have 6 pair and the backs are definitely closed. AKG calls them "semi open" but i don't know why. the backs of the drivers are sealed. it may have something to do with the earpad and driver being two parts. the driver swivels inside the plastic part that holds the earpad. they might not be as good as a truly "sealed" one piece earpiece as far as leakage goes, but they're pretty good sealing still...

We're talking about the phones designated as K240 "Studio" right? There is a circular air vent around the outside of each earpiece and right behind that is a thin piece of foam covering the openings. If you take a pencil or something kinda pointy you can (carefully) press against that inner foam piece and watch it move. I don't think the foam inserts are even glued into place. Mine are definitely leakers.

Differences in vocabulary aside, if air is allowed to flow through the ear cups, then they are not sealed and will leak sound into the microphones. Or maybe a better way of stating it is that they are more likely to leak sound than a truely sealed headphone. The Audio Technica ATH-M40's (for example) are sealed phones and are much better at reducing bleed. Whatever your persuasion on all this is, you'll know whether your phones leak or not the first time you use them for vocal overdubs. But I guess this thread wasn't about all that anyway. For mixing, the K240's are pretty darned good I think. I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion on this until I had a chence to try them on and see for myself. Headphones are a very personal thing. I find most of them uncomfortable to wear for more than a few minutes but I have a horribly large head from radiation so maybe that has something to do with it. The K240's and my Fostex T20's are two of more comfortable phones in my collection. Cheers!

Hey Gary - love those pics of you at the show. You're too cool for school dude! I have to ask - it's driving me crazy - you don't find the hair to be a hassle? I would think even just getting dressed is a two man operation. I'm letting my hair grow (what's left of it). It's about shoulder length right now. Not sure how far I'll let it go. My wife might have eventually intervene if it gets too long

well, it IS a hassle at this point, but you know, i'm attached to it....
it just gets in the way, otherwise, it's not a big deal. i have to be careful about drying it. it's my wife's fault. 20 or so years ago, she got mad at me. she was cutting my hair and i told her to stop playing with it. then she said she'd never cut my hair again...

garyb wrote:well, it IS a hassle at this point, but you know, i'm attached to it....

I wasn't sure at first. I thought it was a photoshop job.

Another vote of for the AKG-701s.... after the first couple of hundred hours or break-in... these CANS are almost good enough to mix on....

However, be aware that they are OPEN design and are NO GOOD for live mic tracking because of the tremendous bleed coming from the cans....

But, to mix or critical listening, indispensable tool.

Jim

The comments about AKG's support and the wear & tear on the earpads are repeated around the web, which gives me pause on this particular product. Still on my list but due to the prevalence of comments about those flaws I've spent some time exploring the options in the priceranges above. I had intially been eying an $200-300 budget out of consideration for my wife (given that it's a present). I didn't list Sennheiser etc. as their options at the same price (at least in the US prices) are near the lower midrange for their offerings, and all make some compromise or other to hit that pricepoint. Serviceable nonetheless...but if I go for one of them I suspect I'd prefer the expensive ones. If I throw budget out of the window completely, the primary thing I'd REALLY like to have is the ability to monitor at decent levels for extended "casual listening" periods (reduced stress on the ear) and have great accuracy to boot.

I'm undecided on close backed or open backed as of yet, but I do I have close-backed headphones already so an open back set might be a nice contrast (2 sets of Sonys- MDR-V600 & MDR-V900HD which is my main set, and a few el cheapos from a multipack people can use for general tracking). Having 'better' close backed phones I might just be willing to make them my main set for mixing, casual listening outside the studio and perhaps even dj with them. So my current short list sorted by reducing price:

Ultrasone PRO 900 (top of the price list, $549.00) - 40ohm & close-backed, could even be used Dj'ing, detachable cord, collapsable but not the stupid swivel cup garbage (which I'd avoid) Haven't had any experience with Ultrasone but reviews are consistantly good online & in forums.

Sennheiser HD 650 ($499.99) - 300ohm, open-backed & lacks detacheable cables unfortunately. I can't imagine I'd be disappointed with the sound as I've used them before. Applications would be mixing, sound design & casual listening...would have to make sure I have enough power on my current gear to drive them. If I go this way it's probably studio use only (I do know some people use them for dj'ing with musicians plugs).

Ultrasone PROline 750 ($389.00) - Slightly more affordable than the PRO 900 above but largely the same specs (40ohm, close backed, detachable cables, could be used for dj'ing etc etc.)

Ultrasone PRO 2500 ($389.00) - Same as above (750) but with open bsack (no dj'ing)

Sennheiser HD 600 ($389.99) - 300ohm, open backed, HAS detacheable cables unlike the newer HD 650. The Classic model but I'd be really tempted to just get the newer model above & eat the cost difference. Detachable cable is worth consideration but not a deal-maker alone.

Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro ($329.99) - 250ohm, semi-open back, non-detachable cable. From reviews & forum comments online seem to be very accurate. Studio use only.

AKG K271 MKII ($269.00) - 250ohm, close backed, detachable cable. I tend to follow Red Muze's advice here and prefer the 240's, as I already have the MDR-V900's for decent 'midrange' close backed headphones. Would be studio use only even though close-backed (too bulky for carrying around imo).

Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO ($259.00) - 250ohm, open backed, non-detachable cable. Would fill the Audiophile casual listening role fine, not for tracking etc obviously.

AKG K240MKII Semi Open Headphones ($199.00) - 55ohm, semi-open back, detachable cable. Would prefer these over the 271's above, though semi-open so not for tracking. Would be studio use only even though close-backed (too bulky for carrying around imo).

Quite a spread in prices & possible roles there still...

I have Ultra's HFI 650 (old model) Now replaced by the 780. Either way, you can't go wrong with Ultras, as you may check on the feature list, the various models all share the bulk of the specs and only minor differences. Oh and the demo cd makes you pee on your panths (it's binaurally recorded).

valis wrote:Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO ($259.00) - 250ohm, open backed, non-detachable cable. Would fill the Audiophile casual listening role fine, not for tracking etc obviously.

IMO one of the best headphones due to its robustness.


Personally I hate AKGs. They feel so loose and sloppy on ones head.

well, if you don't have an akg240 yet, you need to get one. I've already gone through 2 pairs, and will always keep one around. As I've said, recently I started to feel the earpads pressing on my ears and it starts to irritate me after a few hours, but still, it's a great pair to have around while mixing. Just get one, as part of your toolkit.

I tried on some AKG's locally, and didn't mind the sound but the fit was a BIT tight on my large head. I ordered Beyerdynamic 880 Pro's instead. They arrived this morning but have just sat down (nearly 14 hrs later) and am having my first listen. Just for reference (on my head-size) I had to open the Beyers to their fullest extent to get them confortably over my ears (and not 'too high up').

There is a lot of talk on forums like head-fi about 'break-in', but already I can tell a substantial difference to my 'boomy' Sony cans (which I still like for live work/djing). These are 250ohm and work quite well on this board, about half-gain with the headphone knob seems plenty for just about everything, and I even found myself turning them down a bit for some heavier electronic stuff. My Sony's are 48ohm and seem about the same percieved volume at 1/4 travel on the knob (rather than the 1/2 I'm on now)...

I found out about several other interesting models that I'll try to add to my summary in the opening post, in case others should come across this thread in the future. "Audiphile" models from Grado & the Beyer DT-48, as well as cans from a company that used to make car audio & pro audio stuff under the name "MB Quart", and a special set of Sony cans that I think I may pick up to replace my current V600's. If I don't post back with an update tomorrow feel free to publicly call me on it!

Still lovin' my K-701's.

Greg

Valis probaly referred to the 240/271 line of cans, which are pretty tight indeed...

cheers, Tom

Yes, there aren't any shops in town that stock headphones for pro audio needs over the $180 or so pricepoint. I wish I'd had the ability to give the K702's a shot... (or K701).

I also found a shop in the US that ships Sony MDR-CD900ST, which are a rather interesting set of Sonys made by Sony Music Entertainment Japan (not Sony Electronics who makes the rest of the headphones) and apparently they've taken the 50mm driver used in the silver swivel V7's (which are the step up from my V600's) and given them good voicing. I'm going to nab them and see how they compare, I am thinking they'll become my closed-back pair for studio use and possibly for live use too (V600's "boominess" is quite useful when you're on stage with monitors & mains blaring, I still like them for that.) Hopefully these have the thicker surround of the V600's & V7's, rather than the thinnish ear surround the MDR-7506 & other 'professional' Sony Electronics models use.

Also recommended to me were a few other interesting models:

The DT-48 which comes in both an A model (~$400) and an E model(~$400).

The Grado RS1 ($695)

German Maestro (specifically the 8.35 D Monitor) (149,00€)

If anyone is bored and wants to help me find Eu/Uk prices for anything in my first post, feel free. I'm sure all this info is out of date relatively quickly, but I figured since I compiled this for my own uses I might as well share.

Just picked up a pair of Sony HD600's on ebay for £129 and they are just sublime

valis wrote:I also found a shop in the US that ships Sony MDR-CD900ST, which are a rather interesting set of Sonys made by Sony Music Entertainment Japan (not Sony Electronics who makes the rest of the headphones) and apparently they've taken the 50mm driver used in the silver swivel V7's (which are the step up from my V600's) and given them good voicing. I'm going to nab them and see how they compare, I am thinking they'll become my closed-back pair for studio use and possibly for live use too (V600's "boominess" is quite useful when you're on stage with monitors & mains blaring, I still like them for that.) Hopefully these have the thicker surround of the V600's & V7's, rather than the thinnish ear surround the MDR-7506 & other 'professional' Sony Electronics models use.

Hi, did you buy the CD900ST? I'm interesting by this can, but only for casual listening.

I just broke my cable for the sennheiser hd 580.......its frikkin 30€ for a replacement! Autschies!!! I will be more carefull with it now,lasted 7 years tho.

I'm very close to buying a pair of K701 - I did a LOT of research on transparent open cans, and these seem to be the best option. I hate the colour and the fact that it's not a detachable (replaceable) cable, but I can't justify the extra cash for the 702.

Has anyone had experience of K701 and K601? Are they very different?

edit - I've now discovered that the impedance rating of the K701 and K702 (62 ohms) is under the 100-600 ohm recommendation for my mixer headphone out (DDA Interface) which will be the primary use for the headphone. Will this be a problem? I am fairly clueless about headphone impedance. I've only ever owned 1 pair of serious headphones - DT250 - but I'm now pretty sick of them and they are closed so quite unpleasant for extended listening/composition. They are 80 ohm and I notice I need to drive the monitor level higher than I do for comparable speaker volume. I'm wondering if it would be a mistake to get something rated at 62 ohm.

The K601 rating is 120 ohm which will be within the mixer specs - it's cheaper but from everything I've read I suspect they aren't as transparent as the 701.

As a side note I won't be using these for mixing as much as composition... but I would still like them to be as transparent as possible.