The day against war

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at0m
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Post by at0m »

Casper wrote: I don't believe that everything they tell on these sites is true. But it can't all be wrong also. So I think the best thing one could do (if interested at all) is take your time and read and view the stuff that is being presented here. And then make up your mind about what has been told in the first place.
Exactly. I think there's some truth in all of them. I'm sure that CNN/ABC/.. spreads incomplete truths, they're showing very biased opinions. Then there's a lot of different news sites to check.

I think that's where part of the crap comes in. Politics, and world events, have become fast and complex. A lot of people don't have any clue of what's going on, of which pervert proposed or voted for what etc. Then how do they make up their mind when voting? Looking at TV shows!? Democracy as the greeks invented it, counts on people being involved. The 'modern' western world copied the model later, around the French Revolution, but it's failing when buziness takes over.

Politicians were ment to represent the people, not corporate lobbies. A recent study here revealed there's 15000 lobbyists, all chasing the 4500 diplomats who work here at NATO, EU etc...

Back to the news sources... Linking to Nestor's topic, where i said that if there's one thing that strives for objectivity, it's science. Here I'd like to add another one: journalism. But where's the objectivity when the employer has mixed interests?

To give an example: my cousin flies to London next week for some foto shoot with an artist we all know. The record company covers all his expenses, since he's putting the girl on the cover. Where I work they have fired people for doing similar stuff, for his employer buziness as usuall: our largest media group also has big advertisement company, which does the promo for the CD of the artist etc. Mixed interests? Obviously. I think you can count on one hand, the readers of the magazine who'd suspect such liaisons.

Another of example: the EU is internally conforming it's licencing and patenting laws. Microsoft has maybe more jurists than we have at the EU, and guess what happens if they work out a whole proposal for the EU Commission. I wouldn't be amazed if them lamers just took over the prefab propositions. It would save them a lot of work and headache at the Commission, don't you think? :wink:

Have a nice day,

at0m.
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Post by Casper »

1975 WTC fire burned six floors for three hours

New York Times | Feb 14 1975

Original Scans from archived issues of The New York Times. on 9/11 the fires burned for much shorter times and were the official cause of collapse. We have also recently seen other tall steel buildings burn for hours and stay standing.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Apr_0 ... _Fire.html

Mmz, another clue :sad:



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Casper on 2005-04-11 03:14 ]</font>
spoimala
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Post by spoimala »

On 2005-04-10 05:29, Casper wrote:
Liquid Len , objectiveness is a tricky thing.
Objectiveness. What it is? I guess it's something that does not exist.
Only an object could be objective, but we as humans are "subjects" by definition.
Whoever sees/says/writes/experiences whatever, he does it personally/subjectively.

Last weekend I attended to a social forum (http://socialforum.net/) session in Finland. I was listening about discussions about media: it's weaknesses, purpose, meaning etc. Well, I knew that even in my little sweet home country the media is not "clear" but it was a surprise how "dirty" it really is!
There were many talkers from photographers to reporters, ex-workers of Helsingin Sanomat (Finland's main newspaper), free journalists etc.

To summarize:
Do we have freedom of speech? No.
Do we get informed about all significant events aroundthe world? No.
Can we trust the "readers' opinions" in papers? No.
Do we get "objective" views of anything? No.
Do we even get alternate opinions of individual editors? No.

And that's just the beginning. I don't believe any "western civilized state" is any better.

EDIT: Oh, how about less civilized? What's the difference between the propaganda of fascist dictatorships (or any totalitarian system) and democratic countries? Well, in democracy people mostly believe what they read.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: spoimala on 2005-04-11 04:05 ]</font>
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Post by doodyrh »

On 2005-04-10 09:18, Casper wrote:
In the mean while , I will be smoking this big fat joint! :smile:
That explains a lot.
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

On 2005-04-11 03:13, Casper wrote:
1975 WTC fire burned six floors for three hours

...on 9/11 the fires burned for much shorter times and were the official cause of collapse. We have also recently seen other tall steel buildings burn for hours and stay standing.
...
well, there was a fully fueled jet of significant mass and speed abruptly braked by a building.
Energy doesn't simply disolve - it's applied to the obstacle.
It was cleary pointed out by the building's archtitect that a main stabilizing structure was hit as well, and to him this looked absolutely intended and not as a hit by chance.
So the building was destabized already and then the fire did the further damage.

Of course the dude could have been paid for exactly that interview...

Do the people who are resposible for that website donate their revenues to charity ?
There's a huge market, obviously - and that makes it as questionable to me as any other source.

Actually I'd like to have a different clue, but (unfortunately) haven't much trust (left) in the 'good' side of mankind, having seen people change sides far too often.
Once they got in charge they surrendered to temptation...

If it was only in the 'big' political game, well, I'd somehow tolerate this, but it's the small events in everday life that make me frown.
Honestly, given the mental constitution of the 'average' german habitant democracy is a highly questionable state... :razz:
[/sarcasm]
I wouldn't call myself frustrated with people, but a fairly good observer.

People DO HAVE a tremendous amount of power, as the whole system is based on the wallet and nothing but the wallet.
You probably remember that 'Brent Spa' oil platform case, when a multi billion $ corp was 'convinced' to change it's plans by the fact that people avoided their gas station for just ONE week.
It DOES work, but not without personal inconvenience - now go out and ask...

Who's gonna sacrifice his cheapo mic or preamp due to political repression in China ?
Who's gonna change it's way of living to reduce health care costs ?
Who's gonna support his local shop instead of the supemarket or mailorder to generate some more jobs ?
Who's gonna accept increased cost for food to stop this agricultural factory madness ?

THAT's where politic starts, and that's where my opinion about the 'human' potential of this mankind is from :wink:

cheers, Tom
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Post by spoimala »

On 2005-04-11 05:58, astroman wrote:
It was cleary pointed out by the building's archtitect that a main stabilizing structure was hit as well, and to him this looked absolutely intended and not as a hit by chance.
The other part of the event I attended last weekend, was titled "shut up you citizens, our expert DOES know!"
The media has their experts. Many experts disagree with many things, it's up to media, who get heard.
Of course the dude could have been paid for exactly that interview...
Exatcly!
Another interesting point is the use of experts. Many professors of universities are regarded as top experts. Yes, it looks good on TV "Ph.D John Doe from xyz university". What makes it interesting is that matter of speech may be biology and the expert is Ph.D of physics...

There was a reporter who told that they are almost all the time in an extreme hurry. One just doesn't have the time to look for a real specialist (who is willing to say some words in public), it's easier to call one expert the reporter already knows to give an interview.

Interviews today are not done "I will go to John and ask what he thinks about this and this". It goes like this. "I've already written the story, I only go to take some pictures and maybe record one sentence I need to have"
People DO HAVE a tremendous amount of power, as the whole system is based on the wallet and nothing but the wallet.
Yes, for the time being. Many groups around the world are interested in local money. look here: http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/cc/localmoney.html

I really wait to see what this does and when some will start using it.
It DOES work, but not without personal inconvenience - now go out and ask...
We gotta believe, there are enough people whose primary concern is not personal welfare.
Who's gonna sacrifice his cheapo mic or preamp due to political repression in China ?
Who buys cheapo mics anyway? :smile:
Who's gonna change it's way of living to reduce health care costs ?
Err.. how could I reduce these costs?
Who's gonna support his local shop instead of the supemarket or mailorder to generate some more jobs ?
I have bought 80% of my gear from local stores. If the product is 2000EUR cheaper in Germany, then I may rethink.
Who's gonna accept increased cost for food to stop this agricultural factory madness ?
I. But the right way is not to increase the prices but remove taxes from foodstuffs. This would also make the poor have some more money. And that is something the rich cannot accept.
THAT's where politic starts, and that's where my opinion about the 'human' potential of this mankind is from :wink:
Indeed. Are you with me?
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Post by garyb »

the builing was designed to withstand a direct hit by an airliner(really). this was one of the original stipulations(foreshadowing?). i buy chinese goods sometimes as well. other than that, this discussion is starting to make sense.....

people who would march their own soldiers into the desert to witness a nuclear explosion wearing only sunglasses, just to see how well they did out there(done by the u.s. in the late '40-early 50's), or gone into a town and given the local population syphillus in order to observe how the disease progresses up to death(uhh, famous 20th century florida experiment, black people are considered sub-human, here)or forcibly sterilizes people by law right into the '70s(the good ole u.s.a. again) wouldn't have any problem hitting their own city in order to concentrate power(remember Hitler and the Reichstadt?), in fact, this is how the world is run. experts are often full of shit(oops!).
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Post by Xander21 »

On 2005-04-11 04:44, doodyrh wrote:
On 2005-04-10 09:18, Casper wrote:
In the mean while , I will be smoking this big fat joint! :smile:
That explains a lot.
This explains a lot too, but nobody cares

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/northwoods.pdf
doodyrh
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Post by doodyrh »

On 2005-04-11 13:29, Xander21 wrote:
This explains a lot too, but nobody cares
A new member from the Netherlands! Are you a friend of Caspar's by any chance?
I'm afraid I don't have time to look at every single link and 3-hour video on this thread. I prefer to discuss with people who can formulate rational arguments of their own.

OK this is about action on Cuba in the run up to the missile crisis. The Soviet Union was preparing to position nuclear weapons a few hundred miles from the US mainland and the USA is supposed sit on its hands and whistle dixie, right?

Well I'm glad they didn't. And I'm glad they were there to help discourage the Soviets from going any further than Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
Stick that in your pot pipe and give your brain a chance.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: doodyrh on 2005-04-11 16:02 ]</font>
Casper
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Post by Casper »

The name is Casper , but then again reading would not be your interest I guess.
I'd rather see you pointing out your grudge direct appointed to me instead of some first time user. And yes he is from the Netherlands just like many many others AROUND the world!

What we are saying is hard to accept for anyone! But it must be pointed out to as many people so that the truth will be forced out in the open, instead of this forum. That's what my intention is in this discussion. But as in the Matrix, there would always be people stuck in the Matrix cause they simply can not deal with a sudden change in there perception of things going on in the world.

This change in perception would be called opening your eyes to problems you didn't notice in the first place.

Casper
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Post by Casper »

Oh , I'd almost forget:
Image

Xan21!

A bit too large ...
Do you own a pulsar card , or did you google you way into this tread?

greet,

Casper




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Casper on 2005-04-11 18:00 ]</font>
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Post by spoimala »

Back to original topic, I just found some pictures on the actual event (protest against war)
http://www.cosmosleft.com/pages/2/

And some pictures of what they have accomplished in Iraq.
WARNING: These pictures may not be suitable to everyone. They include blood, bones, smashed people etc.
http://mindprod.com/iraq.html

Huh, when this will stop.
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Post by Casper »

I think I'm gonna puke!

Maybe this will end the moment the real reason for them to be there will not be a reason anymore. That moment I think will be the day , that oil is worth nothing and we are driving a car on water.

The archument that they are there to free people is so misleading. On the one hand we all know that Saddam killed a lot of people.
And on the other we see the interest in oil.

These two things collide like hell!

But if you think a litle longer you'd also know there are alot of people dieing everyday of the most simple things. Food , illness ,murder etc. America has the power to do good to these people as well. Hell they could solve this in a weekend if they'd only had the will to do something without getting something in return for it.

80% of the world population people!
That's the plan , they(Skull&Bones) don't care about >us< -->(including Americans!).
Skull&Bones will make a move before running out of the option to do so. There time is running out also! If they would wait until the oil has run out, they will lose there so precious power(defined by this oil). If everyone on this earth could buy his waterfuel anywhere than there is no monopoly position to take.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Casper on 2005-04-12 07:02 ]</font>
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Post by astroman »

On 2005-04-12 04:40, spoimala wrote:
...And some pictures of what they have accomplished in Iraq.
WARNING: These pictures may not be suitable to everyone. They include blood, bones, smashed people etc.
http://mindprod.com/iraq.html
...
in fact, not exactly appetizers...
convincingly written, too - I must admit this.
until the very end, when it finished with a massive request for business, as all those links of the 'must have' videos, dvds etc revealed.

Wtf don't they dare to declare their sales as what it is ? Donations feels better, ahh applied marketing.
No profit organization ?
yes, they don't make profit in the sense that a company collects it's revenus, but it doesn't exclude that this company pays for your car, your office, your business expenses and a 5 figure salary each month.

All those pictures are out of context and everything can be photoshopped to an arbitrary reality today - it's as trustworthy as CNN - until you hold the original Fujichrome slide in your hand.
But who's using that ? All news pics are digital by nature.

Any war is cruel beyond (at least my) belief or anyone's who hasn't been personally involved.

The 'reality' pictured in the link above could have been as reported or it could have been arranged as shown, it could have been emphasized or downplayed - and THAT's morally as cruel as the content shown.
Our communication reaches any point on this planet within minutes, but we cannot trust the content anymore.

btw the only evidence for a 'prepared' 911 scenario imvho is the relatively low number of casualties - less than 3000, while upto 40k people could work in WTC (afaik).
Something like Gary's comparison with the Reichstag, but in a different dimension (the empty german building was set on fire over night).
And yes, I've always been convinced the Iraqui war never was about Sadaam, but imho it's not about only oil either.

cheers, Tom
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Post by Casper »

Well Oil isn't the only thing , drugs (as in hard drugs) is the other big part of it.

About the 911 evidence, when does evidence become evidence.
I find that an important question right know.

Things we came ocross:

- The architect designed the building so it could easaly handle a boeing creashing into it, even multiple airplane crashes.

- The first building that came down (the south tower), came down in 10.4 sec. The north tower came down in 8.2 seconds, faster than a falling body. Impossible if it was torn down by the impact of the plane and fires (which were already becoming black holes due to the lack of oxygen and the fact the that the firefighters said on tapes while being fighting the fire that it was contained)

You want physics? Then read this one for detailed insight. http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/gua ... apndxB.htm

And then i've left out other imporant clues like firemen discussing with eachother of what they heard in the towers.
(O I know , they were hearing pre demolision , the first rounds for weakening "some" part of the building.
You guess wich part.

- The warnings many countries were giving.

- The fact that +- 3000 were killed , beacause many people were warned to stay out of those buildings that 9-11!

- The fact that two months before 911 those same two towers were bought by Silverstein.

- The fact that the golden resorces vanished that were stored at the bottom of the tower.

-A steal quickly gets transported out of the country while you should expect one to examen even a little peace of it, to see how it could have broken , maybe learn a thing or two to improve future buildings.
But no , every single piece is sold already.
I know from the doc "controled demolition inc" that afterwards you can clearly see how the detonation charges cut the steel in a very distinct way(hope I spelled it ok)

cheers,

Casper


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Casper on 2005-04-12 13:17 ]</font>
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Post by Casper »

WASHINGTON - De Wereldgezondheidsorganisatie WHO heeft circa 4000 laboratoria in achttien landen opgeroepen om monsters met een potentieel gevaarlijk griepvirus onmiddellijk te vernietigen. Een Amerikaans bedrijf verzond de monsters vorig jaar voor onderzoek. Volgens de VN-organisatie bestaat er een kleine kans op een epidemie, als een onderzoeker besmet zou raken.

mm

So an American company sends 4000 potentialy dangerous samples of the flue to 18 countries......





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: casper on 2005-04-14 04:08 ]</font>
Casper
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Post by Casper »

Hello? DOn't forget about this topic.
No discussion ?


greetz,

Casper
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Post by Casper »

U.S. to create list of 'unstable' nations

United Press International
March 29, 2005

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

WASHINGTON, March 29 (UPI) -- U.S. intelligence experts are preparing a list of 25 countries deemed unstable and, thus, candidates for intervention.

The National Intelligence Council, a State Department office that collates intelligence for strategic planning, will compose and revise the secret list every six months, the Financial Times reported Tuesday.

Carlos Pascual, a former ambassador who now heads the newly formed agency, said the NIC would identify countries of "greatest instability and risk" to clarify priorities and allocate resources.

Pascual said conflict prevention and postwar reconstruction had become a "mainstream foreign-policy challenge" because of the dangers of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction.

Copyright 2005 by United Press International.
All rights reserved

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... ions.shtml

Image


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Post by Casper »

A big message from Michael C. Ruppert

Peak Oil is no longer on the way. It is here. Forget for a moment whether or not global oil production has actually begun (see below) its hopelessly irreversible decline. We will not know that for certain until sometime after it happens. The political fact, however, is that global inertia in response to Peak has driven our species, all of it, past the point of no return. There is no changing course for us. We have committed to a path of bloody destruction that can no longer be postponed or evaded. Energy investment banker Matthew Simmons - long a smoke alarm for Peak Oil - has said repeatedly, "The problem is that the world has no Plan B." Simmons is right.

Seeing clearly that there is no Plan B, it is now also too late to come up with a Plan C or Plan D. What I had hoped to accomplish with Crossing the Rubicon is now a missed opportunity. Yet the map so many of us drew in Rubicon remains astonishingly accurate and unaltered. It may prove to be an indispensable survival tool in and of itself very shortly.

Politicians come in varieties. They are in business. They are sometimes activists. Many pose as journalists. Some are economists and academics. They work in think tanks and manage the editorial decisions of major press outlets. Many average citizens behave and think like politicians because they accept as their primary mantras: "Don't rock the boat," and "Don't offend anyone." Politicians are more deadly than any weapon. They see their primary mission as building consensus to improve outward appearances.

For a politician the questions are always: "How can I superficially address an immediate problem without going to its root causes? What is the least amount of work I have to do to make this go away while I'm on duty? How can I deal with this problem without burning bridges?" Lately, economists, business and religious leaders, and everyday people have been behaving more like politicians than politicians themselves. Much like the incestuous, sealed-off, fetid Bush administration, the politicians are going to other politicians to make policy - when they dare even to do that. Refusing to make policy is also a policy.

In fact, most people have become politicians and it may well be that political correctness (including the fear of speaking out) - to whatever degree it is observed - will be the sword on which we now (not tomorrow) impale ourselves.

Bridges are burning all around us; bridges to responses that might have mitigated the already brutal (and just beginning) ravages of Peak Oil; bridges to reduce the likelihood of war and famine; bridges to avoid our selectively chosen suicide; bridges to change at least a part of energy infrastructure and consumption; bridges to becoming something better than we are or have been; bridges to nonviolence. Those bridges are effectively gone.

Stan Goff was right when he warned activists that "the gun," in all its forms, would be brought out before this was over. It was inevitable. False flag terror attacks, a fake war on terrorism, routine political murders, stolen elections, and Republican traffic in pedophilia remain causes for outrage and defiance, but they can no longer be useful avenues to justice: the legal system is broken. It's broken for reasons far greater than what used to be called corruption. And it cannot be fixed when a world war and unprecedented economic and ecological collapse are smashing down every wall between humanity and the unthinkable.

Politicians are creatures of economics. Their success has always been measured first and only by what economic benefits they returned to constituents or themselves. The victim has been the future. We have all told the politicians what we really want them to do for us while speaking platitudes from the other side of our mouths. As I have said for so many years, we are all prisoners of the way money works. Until we change that, any solution is only temporal and illusory. No electoral change is possible now that elections all over the world have sworn their allegiance to privately owned software programs and obvious manipulation.


FOR THOSE WHO CAN READ THE MAP

As the evidence grows stronger that we are at Peak now (or very close to it), there is a distinct correlation between oil price hikes and military budget increases, weapons deployment, warfare and covert operations around the world. Economists don't consider such things so they don't report on them. Their orthodoxy scorns any integrated view of world developments outside their own discipline.

For long-time readers of FTW I need do little more than discuss a few recent developments to put this in perspective. For the rest I will provide you with some of a great many available dots you can connect if you care to. Most people find themselves unable to tolerate the sight of the pattern which the connected dots reveal. After this, FTW will no longer try to detail the dots of Peak Oil. What we have published over the last seven years is proof enough. We had it right. I refuse to go over it again. Those who get it now, get it. Those who do not may possibly be beyond saving, because their own choices have deprived them of critical months of preparation for the crisis - especially since most of this "preparation" is psychological in nature. It is very hard and very painful to get one's mind to accept this reality.

Nature does not grant time outs.


Image


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Spirit
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Post by Spirit »

Ah... what's the star of David meant to imply ? That this is all part of a higher Zionist plot stretching back 200 years ?
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