Another thread about summing in scope

[tgstgs]

SAW is latency free;
all calculations are done within one sync sample circle;
the device is outputing on same sync takt than you are inputting something;
so in vienna zero sample latency means 0 sample delay!!
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as for the formula aboth:

t-1 means he needs at least 1 sample delay for processing!;
so it is definitive not latency free!!!
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latency free vibes

[Warp69]

t-1 means he needs at least 1 sample delay for processing!;
so it is definitive not latency free!!!

I think you mean that he needs the previous sample for calculation of the current sample. By it self (t-1) it will introduce a latency of 1 sample, but the following will have zero latency :

Output = (1-coefficient) * Input (t) + coefficient * previous samples (t-1)

[Mike Goodwin]

Quite a bit off topic but......
I just thought that people might find it interesting. Digidesign did a very serious A/B testing with the Waves SSL package and a real SSL4000 desk. There is a survey with great a/b switching and so on. I found it very interesting. Many people simply can't reliably hear any difference. This is not to question the value of scope in any way. I am getting more and more into the 2448 mixer and am finding although it is an extra step in my work flow my results are indeed more satisfying. As many have said the real beauty of scope is being to bring hardware, your DAW and all that the Scope environment has to offer together to in the end create a deep tapestry of textures.

Just think if people can't hear the difference between a whack of plugins and a several hundred thousand dollar mixing console I think it is safe to say that we are not going to hear the difference in out bit depth and rounding errors

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?lan ... emid=25669#

[tgstgs]

so there is and have always been a previous sample;

a question maybe off topic for this forum at all;

you know i like this;


psycho vibes from vienna

[astroman]

...Just think if people can't hear the difference between a whack of plugins and a several hundred thousand dollar mixing console I think it is safe to say that we are not going to hear the difference in out bit depth and rounding errors
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?lan ... emid=25669#

well, I tried 'Smooth Jazz'... outch...
you can mix that on whatever crap you like, it will remain crap, for it is crap - sh*t in-sh*t out as they say...
would have been nice, if the sources had at least some potential to deliver a distinct result
an excellent example how you can spoil 'music' by adding the most beautiful and brilliant hi-res sounds

still shuddering, Tom

[voidar]

Well, I am officially mixing in SFP again as my computer could not handle the amount of ASIO channels it seems.
I am running 48KHz at 4ms ULLI, almost maxed out DSP (26/27), and this is much better than using a lot of hardware inserts in REAPER as I can have monitoring sound the same on record and playback (inputs passing through ASIO-host).

Animation I am setting up as needed on the go and CC Rider VST is making it a breeze.

Not sure if I would find much creativity in this mode as there is a lot of technical stuff to control (cabling, setting etc.), but it works great in a client situation.

Does it sound better? I wouldn't be able to compare, but I am pretty satisfied with the sound I am getting so far. No problems so far with audiable phasing in STM2448, but then again it's a pretty old-school rock mix I am doing.

[Chisel]

I just stumbled upon this thread and found it quite an interesting read. I performed a less technical test for my own ears when I was first setting up Live/XTC years ago. I took a simple song with about a half dozen tracks and summed it in Live and again in Scope. I use switchit devices in my XTC project to sum in Scope. I then played back each of the recordings and the version summed in Scope just sounded better to me. That was enough for me to continue summing in Scope from that day on. Now I use multiple switchit devices in my XTC project to create fixed busses that get routed back into Live. I admit that it's more flexible to sum in Live because it eliminates the extra step of routing all the tracks out and then back in again, but I've gotten use to it.

Peace \/
chisel316

[Mike Goodwin]

Can you give me a link reguarding the switchit devices?

[Chisel]

Can you give me a link reguarding the switchit devices?

I sent you a PM.

[jdieks]

hey... about the FLT asio driver and the 32 bit asio driver.. i just tested every asio driver in scope, because i keep hearing differences in the highs and lows when i record audio...
(i am still using 4.5 btw, maybe this is fixed in 5)

so i played on my Prophet'08 and recorded the audio and then played again and compared the sound with the audio i recorded (note that every note you play is slightly different of cource on an analog, but if you go through it a couple of times you do hear timbre differences)

Asio2 flt crashes my system, so i always worked on 32bit with 32bit float in cubase. then i heard the difference.
so now i loaded the Asio1 flt and recorded in cubase on 32bit float, still a slight difference.
then, still with the 32 bit float loaded, i set the cubase project to 24 bit.. guess what, finally a really clean recording.

i can make 2 recording, one on 32 bit and one on 24 bit so people can hear the 24 bit is cleaner if you want?

i don't understand where this is comming from? some floating point calculation bug in the asio driver or something maybe?

[jdieks]

i think i finally found the real problem

i had a lot of times that i recorded all my synths to audio and my mix sound less allive... after another 15 minutes of listening i'm starting to think it has everything to do with the fact that when i put a synth straight on the scope mixer, then record it (straight from the output of the synth) and after that put the recorded audio on the same scope channel as the original synth was the level is different.

maybe i'm slightly distorting the signal somewhere... allthough i don;t know where, since i record at 32-bit float.

but when i keep my signals down i don't really hear a real difference...

[fidox]

i had a lot of times that i recorded all my synths to audio and my mix sound less allive...

First i choose synth to record from, set bus output to scope mixer, at scope mixer i insert PEQ4s for low and high cuts, to fit in
the mix,
so, I disable everything when recording synth to audio and then use audio channel instead of synth,
depends what you're recording, some sequences have better feel with synth, some samples, like breakbeats,
fx, or similar sounds are nice from audio ,

when i'm satisfied i enable back inserts in scope mixer,

my main leads or main melody i leave synths, so, i'm working half audio , half midi, something like this,
whatever goes into CPU limit

cheers,

matej

[Music Manic]

Yes I believe there are phase issues somewhere but I can't pinpoint the problem.

I can expose problems when I insert PsyQ. This uses phase algorithms which "show things up".

I don't think that it's just Scope to blame but also but also when there is a high CPU load.
Further to this (and this is what I believe to be the main problem) I find that when RAM is maxed out
artefacts are also present in audio.

I'm just transferring over to Intel Dp353dp (now I have time) so I can have more CPU + RAM power.

On a low level the sound is exceptional.

I would appreciate any more views to the phase problems.

Once again I think Vdat is the best recorder I've heard yet, and I think this may have something to do with phase.

[jdieks]

ok, so i'm using Cubase 5 now in stead of sx3 and all problems with sound quality seem over. If i remember right, they said they'd made improvements to the audio engine in 4... So i guess the whole weird "sounds like wrong dithering" problem was the audio engine of sx3 that's just not really good...

also synths that crashed from weird midi msges don't crash anymore. and i love the fact that you can route audio to "virtual outputs" and then make them the input of an audio channel again. really usefull when using external instruments..

glad that i upgraded