Brexit

[garyb]

"good government" won't happen except temporarily. governments by their very nature are not trustworthy because they are always filled with those who desire power over others. governments ALL need to be watched. corruption is something that happens in this universe regardless of opinions.

as to "self actualization" being better or worse in one system or another, this is just fantasy. human beings can "self actualize" under almost any condition, happy or not.

i DO like the way that globalization makes it easier to communicate with others around the world, and i do appreciate many of the opportunities that it creates, but i also do not like the fact that people who are quite far removed from my experience would tell me what is best for me. capitalist or communist, when it becomes totalitarian, it sucks. systems made by bankers suck by definition.

[Nestor]

"

as to "self actualization" being better or worse in one system or another, this is just fantasy. human beings can "self actualize" under almost any condition, happy or not.

Please, would you develop on this one? I don't think I understand.

BTW, I think you are right, it is cool to bring some equilibrium to this with what we like and it is good for us all. After all, we are right now speaking to each other because of that.

But, anyway, this is an unwanted or not taking into account consequence of their plans, because the Builderberg have never thought about your or our pleasure in talking to each other or living in a wider world, they think only in their own projects and profits.

[garyb]

"self actualization" means the realization or fulfillment of one's talents and potentialities.
my point is, this is not based on external factors, that's a fantasy. people can find themselves anywhere they are.
this is NOT to say that external factors don't matter. it's just saying that whatever people THINK or the CIRCUMSTANCE, they can still be true to themselves. anything else is just excuses.

[Nestor]

"self actualization" means the realization or fulfillment of one's talents and potentialities.
my point is, this is not based on external factors, that's a fantasy. people can find themselves anywhere they are.
this is NOT to say that external factors don't matter. it's just saying that whatever people THINK or the CIRCUMSTANCE, they can still be true to themselves. anything else is just excuses.

I second you totally there, it is such an inspiring way of looking to the world and considering human nature. I agree with that, and it certainly leverages the human spirit to the top of the nature scale, which is really great. Gandy, for instance, it is a perfect example of the strength of the human spirit.

[Sounddesigner]

I'm not blind if I think different about analysis and solution Sounddesigner.
You just have to accept that some people don't agree with you.
Like all those youngsters who see more chances for selfactualization in a globalised world.
And no, I'm not mislead

No offense intended. Plus i never thought you were young ..

[Nestor]

Remember the drill going on right now in Russia that ends today, then add this message to the soup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wCwJ8pfXXo

Now tell me................................................................................. that nothing is going on................................................................................. tell me I was wrong about the many times I have said this would happen................................................................................. My assertions were NOT foolish, but a mirror of reality. How many times you told me this was impossible, that I was wrong and that my ideas were mere fantasies?

My own words:
12 Aug
The general tension has raised up a lot between several countries in the whole world. Important economic sanctions are going on. Troops are been moved everywhere with their heavy paraphernalia behind. The Middle East war problems are complicating themselves too, to the point that it is impossible to really follow and understand the many recent moves like those occurring in Syria. Russia is in great alert and getting ready for war and so it is China. USA is getting into really weird times with the present election, and the dirtiest interests are coming up to surface from what we could call a “power-control-desperation” state of mind, and at the same time there are HUGE special operations in the police department that nobody explains WHY they are being made. The EU is getting more divided today that it used to be before forming the coalition itself, many years ago. We are at the verge of great world interventions so it seems.

27th Aug
The plan of the elite that is behind these moves: the central bank, the Federal Reserve and Goldman Sachs, to name just a few of the forces behind. The war is going to spread all around the Middle East, exactly as they want, so to bring total control.

And THIS is what is happening RIGHT NOW!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0999M9jh-I

[Nestor]

As I write, there is a lot of heavy armament being carried “into Europe”, and many of the most advanced war planes into Syria. In this move, Russia is positioning nuclear missiles, not only in near borders, but in Europe too.

They have also deployed the S-300 and S-400 anti-aircraft missile launchers



Some people still think that Russia is far less powerful than USA in terms of armament, that was ages ago, that was several decades ago, this is not at all the case today.

[Nestor]

I am actually in shook to see the kind of presidential debates going on today on USA… what an amazing mountain of crap this is. They are treating people like idiots. What a lack of respect to the listeners!

[hubird]

I feel more in shock about the legions Americans voting for this primitive jerk.
I mean you always have single idiots, in any society at any time, but millions seems to like him, whatever he says or said or did

(Not to defend Clinton here, as you understand. But the difference in style is obvious).

Even his own party starts to let him down now, because of his 'un-American' behaviour:

Trumpraket.jpg (67.7 KiB) Viewed 1647 times

[garyb]

yes, if one only cares about surfaces it's pretty easy to vote for Clinton over Trump, since he's so abrasive. on the other hand, everyone knows what a liar and a cheat the Clinton is, on the other hand, everyone knows what a dictator Trump is, on the other hand, nobody with intelligence or conscience could vote for either, on the other hand, political party zombies will vote for their party anyway.

Democracy and Republics(the USA has never been a democracy, democracies are merely mob rule, the USA is a democratic republic) are fairly dead, if this is what people are forced to vote for.

[Nestor]

Brother Gary, I think that one of the main differences in my approach to these political, world and ethical kind of things, is that you take these manifestations as part of life and tent to see them as natural to human nature. I don’t think they are natural. I think mankind is deeply ill, psychologically and spiritually speaking. There are proves of a better life in ultra-ancient manuscripts and codices that tells us we have had wonderful, peaceful and intelligent experiences in remote times, for very long periods of time, like those held by the primitives Olmecas, Mayas and Incas, for instance. But I have to say, much, very much before historians started to write something about them. There are proves that we are much older than we have considered so far to be. You cannot trust “official” history to study the world.

[hubird]

brother Nestor, ah, the so peaceful mayas and incas again...they used to pull off the skin of their living victims tho, and cut out the heart in one stroke with a specific knife to be able to show it while being still pulsing to the yet living victim...

I trust 'official' history thousand times more than your 'internet' versions

[garyb]

yeah, those old civilizations were very cruel.

[Nestor]

This is what I mean, your phrase comes from “the books you can get in a store”, but not from the real history of the world. The assumption that these civilizations were cruel, come from the books you have read, but farther investigation shows you that there are MUCH more to be learned about it. In the first place, we are much older that it is said by “traditional” history, and many remotely ancient civilizations were way, way better, more advanced and infinitely superior to our poor and degrading modern times we prize so much. I am surprised at how we accept (just because it is in a book), anything that it is written without some logical thinking before the acceptance… Your answer is conditioned by the education you have gone through, but civilizations started an awful lot earlier, millions of years before… There are many solid proves if you get into this investigation, like the black scalp, which has been dated several millions of years older than our modern civilization, and it is NOT an anthropoid or a Java man, no…, it is an homo sapiens-sapiens… so what?

This brings us to the exact same problem and behavior in front of our TV set, so we accept anything that is “official”, but why should we accept things because they are official? The Second World War was official too, but it was a calamity!

“Old civilizations were cruel” is a reflex response phrase of modern anthropology and subsequent cultural indoctrination by the state, but this topic deserves some application, and it is not easy to pierce it because it is definitely not “university” knowledge.

This point is essential to understand and properly see our present day. If we don’t know where we come from, we cannot know exactly where we are today.

One clear prove, among thousands of others, is the fact that the pyramids of Egypt have never been reconstructed by the modern man, even after so many trials and money spent, it has always been a failure at the end, with the silence of course, of those in disappointment. Nobody has ever been able to explain how they have been made, and least of all, reproduce them as an experiment. I could also refer to some very simple fortification walls that there exist in Peru, they are so amazingly perfect, wow, you cannot believe it when you are facing up those things… nobody has ever been able to reproduce anything like this, ever, we do not have the technology to do them. They are an architectonical paradox. And I repeat, there are thousands of things we don’t know, don’t understand and cannot reproduce, so what?

The books about history, for instance, don’t have a clue about the knowledge of some aboriginals that, about 1950, when they were discovered in nature, had more understanding of the solar system than our best astronomers. How can you explain this? You cannot under our history books and atlas, of course. The only explanation is that we have been, at a given point in history, much more advanced yesterday that what we are today. If at least, we had the humility of not believing ourselves so important and so advanced… but we believe ourselves to be the best there has ever existed, and in general terms, the “know it all”, when we are just starting to discover something…

I seriously think this thoughts deserve some profound thinking and time, because to know about our past, as I have already said, clears the path to the future.

[garyb]

those were cults of blood.
well, the Aztecs were much worse than the Mayans.

the Maya people were and are cool, though.

having knowledge isn't the same as being nice.

also, there's not as much distance of thought between Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas as one might suspect, at least when it comes to sun god serpent worshiping emperors. that goes for Louis the 14th, King Arthur PenDragon, Vlad Dracul, the Chinese and Japanese Emporers, and African Kings. all worship at the alter of the sun god serpent king just like the followers of Kukulkan and Quetzalcoatl.

[Nestor]

those were cults of blood.
well, the Aztecs were much worse than the Mayans.

the Maya people were and are cool, though.

having knowledge isn't the same as being nice.

also, there's not as much distance of thought between Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas as one might suspect, at least when it comes to sun god serpent worshiping emperors. that goes for Louis the 14th, King Arthur PenDragon, Vlad Dracul, the Chinese and Japanese Emporers, and African Kings. all worship at the alter of the sun god serpent king just like the followers of Kukulkan and Quetzalcoatl.

Gary, your answer comes as if you have not read what I have told you at all. “The Aztecs were much worse than the Mayan”, where do you get that from? : Books. When have they been written? : Just around the corner by people who have made a few travels here and there and have speculated in base of their learned university theories and the accounts or telling of “modern” inhabitants, that today, have nothing to do, absolutely nothing to do with the great civilization their blood comes from. Who wrote them? : Anthropologists. Is anthropology an exact science? : He he he…., not at all, not even in your dreams! It is a mess of contradictory theories that go from nowhere to who-cares… Among the anthropological tendencies you will have tremendous differences, I mean, differences that dissociate and divorce them from each other, to such an extent, that under the name of “anthropology”, lays an entirely different construction altogether which becomes as “scientific antagonism”. Where is the truth so?

Brother, I understand you have a scientific-mind-approach to life, and that’s great. Well, accepting theories we have not been able to investigate to a certain extent, it is not a scientific approach to anything. The fact about the pyramids I have already told you, should be sufficient to say: hey, stop, there is more to it than it seems… and there is…

[Nestor]

I want to explain you the bottom line of my point:

Look, if we think that humanity has always been like today it is, we will tend logically to think that the state of things of today’s society is “normal”, and being “normal” (because it has always been the same), it is “acceptable”, so we end up being like the rest of people.

There are strong proves to demonstrate that we are much, much older than stated by some of the tendencies of modern anthropology, and that we have had glorious times in this earth before, a long time ago, and that we have had technologies years light more advanced than today: Leaders have not always been corrupted leaders, sexual degeneration and depravation have not always existed in this world like they unfortunately exist today, not always there were burglars in the streets of the cities to assault people, that not always trying to get the maximum amount of money for the minimum service has existed, and so forth and so forth.

The view that bad things, bad people and degradation have always existed on earth, and so, that they are “natural”, and because they are natural we have to accept the present state of things as “what it is”, it is really a VERY BAD philosophy that gets us into even more degeneration.

I stand and believe human beings can be pure in their hearts, natural, tremendously delightful and good-natured, intelligent, loving, caring and absolutely harmless. Of course, this is utopic thinking today, because people are no longer like this, we tend to be brutal and empty of virtues of all kind, but we used to be great, and can return to this state, if we want to.

So, the state of things of today's world are NOT natural, they are a disgrace, but we have been a wonderful and peaceful earth once upon a time. Because the world is corrupted and degraded today, because our leaders are the worst, most covetous and greedy, cruel and bloodthirsty, corrupt and deviated human beings we have ever seen, it doesn’t mean this should be accepted as natural. THIS IS NOT NATURAL, we do not have to accept these directions and ways of self-destruction as an example of how and who we have to be, we can very well look for a better world and be really, really ethic about how we live our lives, at it’s very least!

[hubird]

Brother Nestor, this sounds like an analogy of the bible, old Testament stories Chapter 3, Adam and Eve...
Befor the naughty Eve did eat of the fruit all was good, after it humanity has to suffer as punishment for our sin.
What dubious biblish sites are you quoting man?
At least add some links to your sources, otherwise, if you don't wanne give them, your sources might be suspect...

31118_000_005_01.jpg (211.4 KiB) Viewed 1613 times

Don' tell us you believe in stupid aliens who visited Earth...

[garyb]

blood cults were common in human history.

even today, big cities are built on the blood sacrifice of fellow human beings. believe it.
almost every really big building has a story and many have a plaque dedicated to those who made the "brave sacrifice" to build it.
soldiers always "commit the ultimate sacrifice".
what in the world do they mean by that?

yes, it's books that tell these things. it's also books that tell opposite things. none of us were there. there is evidence even today, however. it''s in the language and everywhere. the ancients may have known secrets, but they were not necessarily nice.

[Nestor]

mmm, no..., this is perhaps the first time to such an extent, but you did not get my point brother, at all, it doesn't matter of course, but yes, this one point it is an important one really.