Gone for holidays only ? Or gone and the end ? Your story has been too long for it to really be the end. Hollywood stories just don't end like that....On 2005-01-05 16:02, Immanuel wrote:
Gone
She said yes :D
On 2005-01-05 19:59, Spirit wrote:Gone for holidays only ? Or gone and the end ? Your story has been too long for it to really be the end. Hollywood stories just don't end like that....On 2005-01-05 16:02, Immanuel wrote:
Gone
I thought the same. The long story short is, that I have been under heavy stress at my study. This past semester has been far too much, and in the last weeks I started to have rather alarming physical symptoms of overload (like pulse 90 just by sitting, reduced finger acuracy, lack of (an othervice good) apetite, reduced thinking capacity). I stood it thru though. And I took my decision, that I had to cut down on my study (for a while?), even though it has a rather stiff structure and missing out some subjects can really prolong the overall study time quite a bit. I needed to get back to life, back to the good things, back to music, back to my girl friend. I was somewhat hopefull. I had aranged a schedule that gave me a very good deal of spare time. I was looking farward to not being the ghost at the computer anymore. It was too late though. She went to Finland for Christmass holidays, and found out how bad she felt about our relationship. When she came back December 30th, she almost broke up, but decided to give it a fair chance. Things actually seemed good for a short while. I felt we where catching up, learning and progressing (if that is a word). We had a few good days together. But yesterday, when I went to see her, she made it over. She said, I had done my best, but she needed something else (not a specific person). The strange thing was, that the things she longed for where things I was actually working actively on in the days before. Don't let love wait too long. It just might loose hope. When there is no more hope, well, then there is no more hope. Maybe, it is a thing about (")Hollywood people("), that they need a good deal of afirmation. Anyway, that was a thing I had not had the needed energy for, when I struggled to hang on at my study. Back then she said "We are not going to part because of trouble. If we shall ever part, it will be because our paths trully have to go in different directions". I guess, the trouble made her feel we had to go in different directions now. But that is just my way of seeing things, I guess.
The past years have been tough. The past months has been really hard. I lost too of the core elements in my life: My girlfriend, and possibly my study - time will tell, if I get the needed energy to ever get that master degree. For now, I just aim at the bachelor. Don't know, how usefull that piece of paper is though. I think, some day I will live to see, that this was all needed, but untill then, pain will have a home in my heart. It is a strange time. Yesterday, I thought of it as bushfire time. "Everything" seems to burn now, to make space for new life. This long time of trouble has cost me much and given me few, but important, things, which, eventually will make me stronger (in some ways, I already am). It is a strange time of hope, loss, emptyness, grief and light. Who ever said, life would be simple? I guess, I'd better take a look at the happy newyear's thread. I somehow didn't feel like it before. People need to do good things to themselves. This just might become a good year to me, though starts doen't last forever. Still feeling somewhat sad though.
Thanks for the good wishes people. I kind of need them at this time.
Immanuel
That's a sad story. I can really feel it in your tale.
But so often turning points which seem so bad and painful turn out, in a few weeks or months, to be something invigorating and rejuvenating.
There are few times so full of growth and new life and activity as the time after a bushfire. Everything is new and comes alive to fill the old spaces....
But so often turning points which seem so bad and painful turn out, in a few weeks or months, to be something invigorating and rejuvenating.
There are few times so full of growth and new life and activity as the time after a bushfire. Everything is new and comes alive to fill the old spaces....
Love, tranquillity etc. are good things, but the positive and enrichement potential of change are unsurpassed. If a change happens in our life is because we need to grow further and develope something new. People who are depressed are those who don't see a chance for a change in their life. Your pain is something sane and fruitful.
she has done you a favor. you were faithful, she was not and at least she was a good enough person to admit it. you did nothing wrong,just wrong for her and that's enough. you will find someone you are right with(even when you're wrong!) if you stay open to it. persevere and hang tough, the good times will return.....
Faithfull is a word with many meanings (to me as a non native English speaker anyway). It is true, that she lost faith in our relationship. It is true too, that she strugled as hard and long as she could. But when faith runs out, strugling becomes somewhat irelevant.
Faithfull also means trustworthy. And as much as I apreciate your kind (and posibly true (future will tell)) words Gary, I will still show her the respect and say, that one thing we didn't have in our relationship was intentional lies (sometimes people (unconciously) "seduce" themselves into believing, things, which are maybe not as true, as we want them to be). But trustworthy she was (is).
Sure, I did things wrong too. I did them as best as I could at the given time though.
Faithfull also means trustworthy. And as much as I apreciate your kind (and posibly true (future will tell)) words Gary, I will still show her the respect and say, that one thing we didn't have in our relationship was intentional lies (sometimes people (unconciously) "seduce" themselves into believing, things, which are maybe not as true, as we want them to be). But trustworthy she was (is).
Sure, I did things wrong too. I did them as best as I could at the given time though.
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
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- Location: Montreal, Canada
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Counterparts
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Bath, England
Reminds me of some lyrics:
I don't believe in destiny
Or the guiding hand of fate
I don't believe in forever
Or love as a mystical state
I don't believe in the stars or the planets
Or angels watching from above
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love
And make it last...
'tis a sad thing to lose the one you love.
My ex & I broke up five years ago now...I really wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, but it wasn't meant to be. We'd been together for eight years prior to that. Can't really say that I've "gotten over it" though as it feels like a bereavement to me...there's not a force in the world that could stop me from loving her, but at the same time there's not a force in the world that could bring us back together again.
I believe that I have gone partially insane due to this
Royston
I don't believe in destiny
Or the guiding hand of fate
I don't believe in forever
Or love as a mystical state
I don't believe in the stars or the planets
Or angels watching from above
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love
And make it last...
'tis a sad thing to lose the one you love.
My ex & I broke up five years ago now...I really wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, but it wasn't meant to be. We'd been together for eight years prior to that. Can't really say that I've "gotten over it" though as it feels like a bereavement to me...there's not a force in the world that could stop me from loving her, but at the same time there's not a force in the world that could bring us back together again.
I believe that I have gone partially insane due to this
Royston
a truely sad story, Immanuel
words don't mean much to that feeling which is there and will remain - one just finds a way to accept it as part of life.
It shows that she was a valuable person for you.
But it has been a very special relationship over years with all that coming and going - maybe the awaited 'freeze of state' (under probably not the best conditions as you describe your studies) influenced the way it developed.
Sometimes that's the way subconsciousness makes it's way into real life.
It's not uncommon - may I add a strange personal experience ? Not intended to give false hopes but just for perspective's sake.
In my current relationship we've had really bad times, but it always worked out some way.
Now when I mentioned the fact that '... she's really doing this and that in a great way now...' it usually didn't take more than a day and it all broke together again.
I just can't explain it - it happened so many times that it's way beyond statistics of pure chance. I never mention her merits since then in an affirmative way
Obviously (vice versa) that makes me deal differently with the relation itself.
It's probably the most demanding task in life to live together with a partner and not just side by side.
We're still working on it after more than 25 years (a frightening amount of time) and I think it's essential to never stop.
We've been married, divorced, lived separate lives and we're together again for quite some time with crises coming and going.
She didn't change her name back after divorcy, so we are regarded as a married couple (sometimes funny), but there's nothing to keep one of us from breaking apart - except a strong emotional tie.
But that 'living a relation' is something you cannot discuss about and set as a rule, as you probably did when trying to save what you felt slipping away.
You regard it as a final mistake now - but it may just be part of the process.
If there's a strong band between you, there will be a way for you both as a couple - as absurd as it may seem right now.
The only real mistake you could make (imho) is to simply rely on the fact that she's just coming back.
She will develope and you will, too - then time will show...
best wishes, Tom
words don't mean much to that feeling which is there and will remain - one just finds a way to accept it as part of life.
It shows that she was a valuable person for you.
But it has been a very special relationship over years with all that coming and going - maybe the awaited 'freeze of state' (under probably not the best conditions as you describe your studies) influenced the way it developed.
Sometimes that's the way subconsciousness makes it's way into real life.
It's not uncommon - may I add a strange personal experience ? Not intended to give false hopes but just for perspective's sake.
In my current relationship we've had really bad times, but it always worked out some way.
Now when I mentioned the fact that '... she's really doing this and that in a great way now...' it usually didn't take more than a day and it all broke together again.
I just can't explain it - it happened so many times that it's way beyond statistics of pure chance. I never mention her merits since then in an affirmative way
Obviously (vice versa) that makes me deal differently with the relation itself.
It's probably the most demanding task in life to live together with a partner and not just side by side.
We're still working on it after more than 25 years (a frightening amount of time) and I think it's essential to never stop.
We've been married, divorced, lived separate lives and we're together again for quite some time with crises coming and going.
She didn't change her name back after divorcy, so we are regarded as a married couple (sometimes funny), but there's nothing to keep one of us from breaking apart - except a strong emotional tie.
But that 'living a relation' is something you cannot discuss about and set as a rule, as you probably did when trying to save what you felt slipping away.
You regard it as a final mistake now - but it may just be part of the process.
If there's a strong band between you, there will be a way for you both as a couple - as absurd as it may seem right now.
The only real mistake you could make (imho) is to simply rely on the fact that she's just coming back.
She will develope and you will, too - then time will show...
best wishes, Tom
Thank you for all your kind words. Much truth is in there.
Yes Stardust, it IS always on both sides. Maybe she knows what she wants. She knew what she didn't want. So that may be a good start for her. I don't really know what I want right now. I actually don't want an identical relationship again. Maybe, that is why the "burst of hurt" has not really hit me yet. Maybe I am just slow at reacting. 10 years ago it took 3 weeks after my father died. Should we ever get together again, then it would have to be with an aim for something different. Right now, I don't really think that will happen though.
Yes Paul, I didn't think of it as an actual 'communication breakdown' when I was in it. But I do feel your comment is very precise. We did have communication issues, which seamed to persist very strongly, only very slowly changing. She seamed to have this fear of not being perfect, though I told her so many times, that noone should demand that from one self. And I was afraid to express dissatisfaction, because I was insecure of how she would react. Also I would often have to ask "what is wrong", because she was not good at saying such things either. At the same time we where very honest to eachother. Wheter being afraid to say things directly can be judged as honest or dishonest, but we would not lie to eachother. Lies was a thing we didn't want between us. I didn't see it as an actual communication breakdown, though I brought up the issue several times. Still, I will have to admit, that you are right. Communication wasn't always good and open. I many times felt, that I had to be very carefull about how I said things. That is a bad sign, when it happens a lot. I tried to change it, but we did not succed.
Gary. I know you do not intend to be disrespectfull. That is very clear from your posts here at Z. It was just a word, that hurt me on behalf of her. Thank you for your good wishes.
Richard. You said turning point. I have for some time felt, that this time in my life is a turning point. I felt that already before the unexpected breakup. I do think my life will change for the better. Also, I don't expect strugling will be over any time soon. My life is not only strugling at this time though. It is a strange mixture. I feel some strong and good things happening to me also - some of them, I sense specifically, and others which I will probably not discover untill later. The fire is still burning at one side, and at the other side, things are starting to grow.
Alfonso. I do believe, that when big difficult things happen to us, it is either because we really need it (it is like getting this one last chance to open our eyes), or because we failed for too long and missed the chace. In that case, there will still often be things to learn. Sometimes pain is just part of life, and when that happens, it often wants to tell us something.
Huub. You are so right. That is one side of my life right now.
Royston. I do believe in destiny. I don't believe we are destined in a way so that we have no way of manipulating our destiny, though. I think live brings us potentials (good and bad), and then we add some more by ourselves - be dealing with the potentials life brings us. But so many times have I seen patterns in my life, where one single change would have lead me into an all different path. This view of life has given me a positive way of confronting challenges. I very rarely (though it happens) feel really unlucky. Even when life hits me with piles of *hit, I often keep faith in, that it is needed for something good, which I will probably not see before some times have past. Years ago I learned, that a crisis is like a big ocean. But if you dare and dive all the way to the buttom, there is and old wreck with a treasure waiting to be found. I see my challenge in life as being to nurture good potentials for myself, while dealing carefully with bad potentials. Noone is involnureable. About your own story: Sometimes we need to be bereaved, so as to make space in our pockets. I hope for you, that some day you will find, that you pocket was not cut off - it was "just" "relieved from some weight".
Tom. "Sometimes that's the way subconsciousness makes it's way into real life." I do believe, that this very much happened here. Dysfunctional parts of our relationship was revealed/spotlighted first to her (when she had time away for hollidays), later to me. When almost lost her in the first go, it did force me to think, feel and considder: "is this really, what I want". Some things where - other where not. Maybe, you are right, that there is a potential future for us again at some later stage. For now though, I do not count on it. She was (present and unpresent) a third of my life. I will have to aknowledge the pain and sorrow. And I will have to let her go. And very important, I will have to somehow face the parts of me, that contributed to dysfunctional aspects of our relationship. As I wrote earlyer. I do not want the same relationship again. And I do not want it neither with her, nor with anyone else. Shure, I would love it, if it is possible to pass on some of the beautifull and good sides of it on to my future realtionship with X (wich I will deffinitely not seak out to meet any time soon - too easy to make a replicate relationship, continuing with the same mistakes). We are all different though, and I would never expect one person to be both my best friend for fun times, my best friend for troubled times, my best lover ever, my best mate for raising children, etc. I do hope to again find a person, whom I can feel that I respect and love for the good we have between us, and respect for her "imperfections". I do believe that I did that with Saara. Maybe time will make me see, that I was fooling myself (and her).
Thomas. Yes, doing good things and being with good people is important. Today I went to the chinema to watch a movie for smiles. I had some good laughs.
Thank you again to everybody, who has shared their good will, experience, concern for me. It does make a difference, and on top of that, I have learned some important things by reading and thinking of your posts.
Immanuel
Yes Stardust, it IS always on both sides. Maybe she knows what she wants. She knew what she didn't want. So that may be a good start for her. I don't really know what I want right now. I actually don't want an identical relationship again. Maybe, that is why the "burst of hurt" has not really hit me yet. Maybe I am just slow at reacting. 10 years ago it took 3 weeks after my father died. Should we ever get together again, then it would have to be with an aim for something different. Right now, I don't really think that will happen though.
Yes Paul, I didn't think of it as an actual 'communication breakdown' when I was in it. But I do feel your comment is very precise. We did have communication issues, which seamed to persist very strongly, only very slowly changing. She seamed to have this fear of not being perfect, though I told her so many times, that noone should demand that from one self. And I was afraid to express dissatisfaction, because I was insecure of how she would react. Also I would often have to ask "what is wrong", because she was not good at saying such things either. At the same time we where very honest to eachother. Wheter being afraid to say things directly can be judged as honest or dishonest, but we would not lie to eachother. Lies was a thing we didn't want between us. I didn't see it as an actual communication breakdown, though I brought up the issue several times. Still, I will have to admit, that you are right. Communication wasn't always good and open. I many times felt, that I had to be very carefull about how I said things. That is a bad sign, when it happens a lot. I tried to change it, but we did not succed.
Gary. I know you do not intend to be disrespectfull. That is very clear from your posts here at Z. It was just a word, that hurt me on behalf of her. Thank you for your good wishes.
Richard. You said turning point. I have for some time felt, that this time in my life is a turning point. I felt that already before the unexpected breakup. I do think my life will change for the better. Also, I don't expect strugling will be over any time soon. My life is not only strugling at this time though. It is a strange mixture. I feel some strong and good things happening to me also - some of them, I sense specifically, and others which I will probably not discover untill later. The fire is still burning at one side, and at the other side, things are starting to grow.
Alfonso. I do believe, that when big difficult things happen to us, it is either because we really need it (it is like getting this one last chance to open our eyes), or because we failed for too long and missed the chace. In that case, there will still often be things to learn. Sometimes pain is just part of life, and when that happens, it often wants to tell us something.
Huub. You are so right. That is one side of my life right now.
Royston. I do believe in destiny. I don't believe we are destined in a way so that we have no way of manipulating our destiny, though. I think live brings us potentials (good and bad), and then we add some more by ourselves - be dealing with the potentials life brings us. But so many times have I seen patterns in my life, where one single change would have lead me into an all different path. This view of life has given me a positive way of confronting challenges. I very rarely (though it happens) feel really unlucky. Even when life hits me with piles of *hit, I often keep faith in, that it is needed for something good, which I will probably not see before some times have past. Years ago I learned, that a crisis is like a big ocean. But if you dare and dive all the way to the buttom, there is and old wreck with a treasure waiting to be found. I see my challenge in life as being to nurture good potentials for myself, while dealing carefully with bad potentials. Noone is involnureable. About your own story: Sometimes we need to be bereaved, so as to make space in our pockets. I hope for you, that some day you will find, that you pocket was not cut off - it was "just" "relieved from some weight".
Tom. "Sometimes that's the way subconsciousness makes it's way into real life." I do believe, that this very much happened here. Dysfunctional parts of our relationship was revealed/spotlighted first to her (when she had time away for hollidays), later to me. When almost lost her in the first go, it did force me to think, feel and considder: "is this really, what I want". Some things where - other where not. Maybe, you are right, that there is a potential future for us again at some later stage. For now though, I do not count on it. She was (present and unpresent) a third of my life. I will have to aknowledge the pain and sorrow. And I will have to let her go. And very important, I will have to somehow face the parts of me, that contributed to dysfunctional aspects of our relationship. As I wrote earlyer. I do not want the same relationship again. And I do not want it neither with her, nor with anyone else. Shure, I would love it, if it is possible to pass on some of the beautifull and good sides of it on to my future realtionship with X (wich I will deffinitely not seak out to meet any time soon - too easy to make a replicate relationship, continuing with the same mistakes). We are all different though, and I would never expect one person to be both my best friend for fun times, my best friend for troubled times, my best lover ever, my best mate for raising children, etc. I do hope to again find a person, whom I can feel that I respect and love for the good we have between us, and respect for her "imperfections". I do believe that I did that with Saara. Maybe time will make me see, that I was fooling myself (and her).
Thomas. Yes, doing good things and being with good people is important. Today I went to the chinema to watch a movie for smiles. I had some good laughs.
Thank you again to everybody, who has shared their good will, experience, concern for me. It does make a difference, and on top of that, I have learned some important things by reading and thinking of your posts.
Immanuel
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Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Sorry Immanuel you have to go through such a thing... Something is sure, it is not easy to be there. I hope my feelings of willing for you to be well, are worth something for you.
Most of the time, our relationships related to the teenager epoch, have a lot of idealism in it, sort of a magical, wonderful world of positive ideas that seem to be possible to realise, and so they pierce deeply into our hearts for the rest of our lives, they are part of what all human beings would like to be and would like to experience. That is why for many people, their teenager epoch was the best of their lives, and they will never experience something similar again when growing, because they get stuck attached to the past.
For most of us who have got a girlfriend which was emotionally closed in those early days of high idealism, there was an intense pain to go through.
Unfortunately, once you grew up things start changing and you realise the world is not what you expected for it to be. Not at all! Even more, the world has many things you didn’t expect to exist and many that contradict massively and radically to your high idealism of bygone days.
I know, (as I have experienced this in all its hardness), that all your grief and pain is not just for your gone girlfriend, but for all the things she represented and went out the door of your high idealism, with her. It is very sad that she is gone, but all those things you believe can be done in life, all those magical and positive things, are INSIDE YOURSELF, and are not lost.
Dear friend, get up, clean your dust, and keep walking toward your most cherished ideas, the path of your life is waiting for you. Go for it, and let those sufferings behind!
Most of the time, our relationships related to the teenager epoch, have a lot of idealism in it, sort of a magical, wonderful world of positive ideas that seem to be possible to realise, and so they pierce deeply into our hearts for the rest of our lives, they are part of what all human beings would like to be and would like to experience. That is why for many people, their teenager epoch was the best of their lives, and they will never experience something similar again when growing, because they get stuck attached to the past.
For most of us who have got a girlfriend which was emotionally closed in those early days of high idealism, there was an intense pain to go through.
Unfortunately, once you grew up things start changing and you realise the world is not what you expected for it to be. Not at all! Even more, the world has many things you didn’t expect to exist and many that contradict massively and radically to your high idealism of bygone days.
I know, (as I have experienced this in all its hardness), that all your grief and pain is not just for your gone girlfriend, but for all the things she represented and went out the door of your high idealism, with her. It is very sad that she is gone, but all those things you believe can be done in life, all those magical and positive things, are INSIDE YOURSELF, and are not lost.
Dear friend, get up, clean your dust, and keep walking toward your most cherished ideas, the path of your life is waiting for you. Go for it, and let those sufferings behind!
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Counterparts
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Bath, England
Aye, I agree with that!Immanuel wrote:
Royston. (snip)
My most optimistic feeling about Geraldine is that I hope we can just sit down and talk at some point in the future...who knows, eh?
I try to take the positive out of any situation as best I can; the 'religion' that's probably closet to my own heart is Taoism, although I don't technically subscribe to anything
I quite like the "strawberry" analogy to life:
We're holding on to a cliff face, there's a bear waiting for us at the top of the cliff and a marauding tiger at the bottom. Some people fret and whine and get upset by this situation but others take a moment to look around...and spot some wild strawberries growing on the cliff face. Those that do pick a few and have a nice munch on them (they're really damn good strawberries!)
It's worth trying to find those strawberries methinks; you're going to die either way reagardless!
Royston
nice analogy - while reading it I could literally watch myself moving up the rockface and then side to side - it's been a (too) long time since I've been climbing...On 2005-01-14 09:48, Counterparts wrote:
...It's worth trying to find those strawberries methinks; you're going to die either way reagardless!
I can feel with you Immanuel, recently moved to a new flat but I still have to 'clean up' the old one
boxes and trash everywhere, it's got a deeper meaning as it's leaving back a part of life. An unappreciated one in my case and facing the mess just brings those bad memories back.
my best wishes for your brand new start - it's like that, just get over it
cheers, Tom
Starting well, I just found mayor humidity damage in a part of my apartment, which I have not been at for a while (rotting BIG windows). Damn this is not all fun Had a good rehearsal with my percussion group today though.
/me is taking out my magnifying glass to go looking for strawberries in the middle of the winter.
Had a good rehearsal with my percussion group today though./me is taking out my magnifying glass to go looking for strawberries in the middle of the winter.