PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

so that gives me the opportunity to break it down...
think about what you really need
buy a card from RME if you cant't wait - they make good stuff and are German, too
their 'environment' is much simpler than SCs, so it's no wonder they finished a bit earlier...

if you need any Scope specific processing connect it via multi-channel Adat
PCs have never been THAT cheap (and silent), in particular for Scope processing.
SC will deliver their 64bit version

cheers, Tom

A reminder that I use an RME under Win7 64bit with 8 cores & 16GB ram quite effectively alongside my 8 year old 2.4Ghz (aging?) Xp32 system with my Scope cards running just fine. Tbh the only thing that would change for me with 64bit drivers is that I might consider using my current 'main' PC as a Scope PC with an upgrade (have a NEW "main" DAW pc), but since I have no plans to upgrade just now...

Ok this is slightly off topic, but a lot of people argue they need 64bit drivers for their sampleplayers (bfd2 etc.), am i wrong in thinking that fitting an SSD drive would enhance the performance of these huge libraries on a much larger scale than in example 8 gigs of RAM? Im not saying one or the other, but simply switching to a 64bit OS doesnt get rid of loading times etc, an i recon streaming from SSD would make swapping presets pretty instant, and you could easily stream large libs straight from disk rather than fill up your precious RAM with thinks that doesnt need to be there?

i have 2 gigs of RAM, Windows XP, BFD2 and Ivory on their own discs and have no problems. Personally I need Scope more than I need 64 bit. It's a question of priorities. I will keep this XP machine going as long as I can.

an SSD doesn't necessarily load faster than a good HD - it seeks faster, because there's no physical head positioning.
As frequently mentioned the Windoze boot process can be dramatically reduced.
On playback of continous data I wouldn't expect much difference.
Great on a million drumhits, probably nothing special on a huge pad sound.

I've seen RamDisks under Windoze performing (much) slower than physical disks - which I found extremely strange.
As Jimmy mentioned: loading 8 Gig into memory isn't an instantaneous process...
During work you may have huge chunks to write back frequently - you can't really 'work' based on Ram only.
The more you have, the less reliable it is...
and as long as HDs are business you won't find any (affordable) solution anyway
whenever something is this direction shows up on the horizon (which it does since almost a decade) it quickly vanishes...

cheers, Tom

astroman wrote:
The topic is discussed in a way suggesting exactly THAT - you can't do anything useful without 64bit, the new standard etc bla bla
My only point is THINK about it

Well I certainly appreciate your perspective on it. I personally couldn't give to flaming craps about 64bit or 32 or 192, or whatever. I just want to use 8GB of RAM and not have 5 machines.


If SonicCore releases 64bit drivers, then I could get an X-CITE and run it off of my laptop in Win7 (or who knows, by the time I can afford the X-CITE I might be able to throw it on a Hackintosh install on said laptop).

I think we've just about beaten this topic to death, especially because SonicCore has already announced that it's coming 'soon'. Just wanted to make sure that the reality that I see day to day is being properly reflected in the conversation.

Cheers Tom!

yeah, there's no need for that much ram, except for the way things are programmed, so it's sometimes a necessity. i'm sure the 64bit version will come because it MUST come. so sprecht the computer overlords.

dehuszar, you obviously are very young. what 5 computers will do was only a dream of billionaires when i was just a little younger. you have it better than good. i don't ever want to hear you or anyone else sounding like a spoiled brat again! seriously, unless the company just fails(God forbid!), you're gonna get your wish.

If you call 32 'very young' then I'll take it. I hope I don't come off as a brat who doesn't know how far things have come. My Dad brought home the IBM 8086 when I was five and have owned a computer that has been powered by just about every major processor out there except AMDs K6. Right now I have a Quad-Core laptop with 6gb of ram running Ubuntu (though I boot into Win7 for games and browser testing), and for the first time in my computing life everything just works smoothly.

I can open as many tabs as I need in firefox, I can use the Compiz 3D windowing extensions, I can keep my dev soft open, burn a dvd, watch a movie/listen to my MP3 library/the radio/Pandora, and do graphical edits all simultaneously. I do web PHP & JQuery based web design and focus on interface design and application flow. In that universe, no one cares what tools you used to build it, or how you went about it, they just want the site to work, make sense, and not require them to struggle with bugs or complexity. They want an environment that allows them to get through their work-day/task/project without having to start and stop, switch enviroments, clean up after themselves to conserve resources, etc. They want to be able to stay in as constant a state of flow as possible. And that's the lens my video folks try to operate. What gets them into a state where the can play with the vision of their project.

So in the realm of audio, I couldn't care less what is misunderstood marketing crap, or technically irrelevant. I don't care whose fault it is (unless it's my own) when the project crashes. If an extra 2gb of ram solves that problem then I'll be on NewEgg in a flat second to pay for that upgrade. From a 'state of flow' perspective, 5 computers still doesn't solve the problem because by definition, it isn't seamless. I have to jump from machine to machine to asswmble the song. Having to manage the project data across machines is tedious work that takes me out of flow. There are 5 times as many thinga that go wrong. For better or worse, the market demands (& I concur) a single working environment where I can have everything I need to stay in flow open in front of me.

And I'm old enough to know that this is a reletively new way to think about process in general, but products that can't meet that criteria are starting to not be able to keep up. Blame the iPhone.

dehuszar wrote:If you call 32 'very young' then I'll take it. I hope I don't come off as a brat who doesn't know how far things have come. My Dad brought home the IBM 8086 when I was five and have owned a computer that has been powered by just about every major processor out there except AMDs K6. Right now I have a Quad-Core laptop with 6gb of ram running Ubuntu (though I boot into Win7 for games and browser testing), and for the first time in my computing life everything just works smoothly.

I can open as many tabs as I need in firefox, I can use the Compiz 3D windowing extensions, I can keep my dev soft open, burn a dvd, watch a movie/listen to my MP3 library/the radio/Pandora, and do graphical edits all simultaneously. I do web PHP & JQuery based web design and focus on interface design and application flow. In that universe, no one cares what tools you used to build it, or how you went about it, they just want the site to work, make sense, and not require them to struggle with bugs or complexity. They want an environment that allows them to get through their work-day/task/project without having to start and stop, switch enviroments, clean up after themselves to conserve resources, etc. They want to be able to stay in as constant a state of flow as possible. And that's the lens my video folks try to operate. What gets them into a state where the can play with the vision of their project.

So in the realm of audio, I couldn't care less what is misunderstood marketing crap, or technically irrelevant. I don't care whose fault it is (unless it's my own) when the project crashes. If an extra 2gb of ram solves that problem then I'll be on NewEgg in a flat second to pay for that upgrade. From a 'state of flow' perspective, 5 computers still doesn't solve the problem because by definition, it isn't seamless. I have to jump from machine to machine to asswmble the song. Having to manage the project data across machines is tedious work that takes me out of flow. There are 5 times as many thinga that go wrong. For better or worse, the market demands (& I concur) a single working environment where I can have everything I need to stay in flow open in front of me.

And I'm old enough to know that this is a reletively new way to think about process in general, but products that can't meet that criteria are starting to not be able to keep up. Blame the iPhone.

yeah, 32 is a baby . it's all good, i'm not hatin on ya. as a consumer though, you should know that the stuff is made so that it'll NEVER do what you want it to. there's ALWAYS more to buy. the question is, has Music and Music Production really improved for humans? of course, the answer is "NO!", but a lot of things can be done more cheaply and easier than 30 years ago, so we, being lazy as #$%^, have bought into the merry go round. there's no reason why all these people need to be pretending to be musicians and producers. there's no reason for the programmers to use 4gb of memory for a job that only requires 500meg, but that doesn't sell more stuff every six months, so as i said, 64 bit is coming because the industry has mandated it. it's certainly possible to stream these samples effectively without so much memory, and 32bit systems CAN use more than 4gb of memory, but that's the computer industry is NOT interested in being efficient, they're interested in milking every last dollar from you.

but naturally, as a user, you need to use what there is. 64bit drivers and programming are a MUST for S/C.

Just look at the forefathers of electronic music....
Skinny Puppy, Front 242, Depeche Mode, Soft Cell, Frontline Assembly, Kraftwerk
All of those artists have done so much more, with so much less...just an opinion....

Yay!!! Consensus! The only thing I'd add is that the cyclical problem you and Tom speak of is not as much a conspiracy as it is sometimes portrayed as (though, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of collusion), but it's usually a matter of practical constraints.

In the same vein, I could probably make my websites leaner, more efficient, more perfectly consistent across every browser, except most clients don't want to pay for my time to do that, or don't care enough, and I need make sure all my clients get fair attention. So each time I get a little better, a little leaner, a little more efficient, but then have to accommodate new platforms which clients will want to have integrated, to connect with terrible web2.0arreah sites like Facebook and Twitter, Constant Contact, etc., sending the proverbial rock rolling back down the hill again. It's part of the human condition to an extent.

That's why I think it's kinda fighting against windmills to get mad that it takes 2GB to do a 768MB job. When I'm ruler of the universe and can make the entire industry do things the ideal way, then I'll pick up the thread again. But alas, BeOS has been crushed, Windows 7 didn't suck bad enough for them to fall back into the ocean, Ivory & BFD2 eat up more RAM than I can fit in a single 32bit OS, and the V-Piano is $6000. In the meantime, if SonicCore can support my machines which have or can support 6-8GB of RAM, I'll be a shade better off than I was yesterday for less money, and that's good enough for me.

...oh and with respect to the above artists, I don't know that they help your case, but that's just my highly opinionated $.02.

All the money in the world does not make good electronic music...you being from Chicago should know that...
I have worked with some of the best in that industry....

dehuszar wrote:Well I certainly appreciate your perspective on it. I personally couldn't give to flaming craps about 64bit or 32 or 192, or whatever. I just want to use 8GB of RAM and not have 5 machines.

If SonicCore releases 64bit drivers, then I could get an X-CITE and run it off of my laptop in Win7 (or who knows, by the time I can afford the X-CITE I might be able to throw it on a Hackintosh install on said laptop).

I think we've just about beaten this topic to death, especially because SonicCore has already announced that it's coming 'soon'. Just wanted to make sure that the reality that I see day to day is being properly reflected in the conversation.

Cheers Tom!

Bro,

You can have 8GB already in Windows 32 bit whatever flavor..

just run windows server....

Most stuff works on it and you will have the full address space for both Scope and Cubase combined.

Let me know what you come up with

stardust wrote:And the drivers will come soon.

... but will it be the same as UAD platform in that the driver is 64 bit but the plugins are not?

stardust wrote:The plugins run anyway on the DSP and are 40bit floating point when it comes to signal processing

It may be 40 bits as far as the DSP is concerned but insofar as the VST Specification is concerned, which both scope mode and native use, for example the lowest compatible version uses dual 32 bit data paths, so we aren't talking about Soniccore but the rest of the system.

True?

bit depth for processing, communication between programs and for the operating system are three different things entirely.

garyb wrote:bit depth for processing, communication between programs and for the operating system are three different things entirely.

There are alot of people who confuse 64bit Mixer Engines/Effects-processing with 64bit Operating Systems.

Manybro here is a link to a article by Universal Audio explaining 64bit Operating Systems, they attempt to bring more understanding out here - http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2010/febr ... pport.html


I am one of the ones who do look forward to using 64bit drivers from Sonic Core with Windows 7 x64bit for several reasons but if the Drivers never came i'd stay where SCOPE is and still be happy. But i do feel 64bit O/S compatibility will benifit the SCOPE Platform significantly since that is the way that many people in the industry prefer to go.

manybro wrote:
Bro,
You can have 8GB already in Windows 32 bit whatever flavor..
just run windows server....
Most stuff works on it and you will have the full address space for both Scope and Cubase combined.

Is anyone using Windows 2003 Server Enterprise with Scope and sample players like Kontakt, (Play also) and maybe also VEPRO?
I would very interested in using it with 8 gb of RAM installed...
and avoiding to pass (and wait an eternity for Scope 64bit drivers...) to 64bit OS.

afaik the license for Enterprise Server is more expensive than a 64 bit box connected via Adat...
anyway, check out PAE for the details and/or use the search function on this board.
The topic has been mentioned before. But you can use the extended adress space in 4 GB portions per process only.
For example Kontakt with a 6 GB lib wouldn't work, dunno if several instances would be mapped properly.

cheers, Tom

I think that was more the point of what homeboy was saying, that he wants the full virtual address space for his DAW so he can run other things.

If scope was made to properly run on Enterprise servers, then that would be cool, I remember this topic was also discussed at studionu.com and it was said it would never happen because the resources required to make it fully compatible only to have to go and do it again for a full 64 bit system was a waste of time but for something like scope that is more than just a math co-pro, it might be of benefit even if not officially supported plus germans being generally smarter might be able to implement it quite easily.