PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

On 2004-07-25 08:29, hubird wrote:
no

Clever!

don't take it too seriously, just playing with absurd communication, the no means nothing

ehh, I don't get it BlazesB., come soon?
I'm missing something funny I guess

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-07-31 19:51 ]</font>

on me i think....

What Hubird is missing

I'm just teasing GaryB. I love your responses. And Hubird's, too!

I see

I have some questions concerning VDAT..

I did a test with STS-3000 and STM2448. I used STS as a playback device for 10 acoustic drum tracks, fed independently to the STM for mixing. Sound was definitely better than with cubase SX-->STM combination. So it seems I'm forced to buy VDAT then. Cubase is a great composing tool, but sounds crap, now when I've heard better.

How much VDAT uses DSP? If we compare STS-3000 with 32 voices, how much VDAT uses with 32 active channels? More or less than STS-3000? Just want to get an idea, if I'll be running out of dsp with VDAT.

Have I understood this correctly, I need 4 VDAT plugin instances simultaneously to be able to play 32 tracks?

There has been said that VDAT creates pre-formated 'tape' into hard disk and uses it for recording. How can I access the tracks if I want to edit them manually? Are they 'encoded' inside that tape file?

Is it impossible to import tracks into VDAT?Is recording them the only way to go?

There is supposed to be VDAT2 some day, but we don't know if it will be available this year or next year. Hopefully the rumor is correct that the update from VDAT will be free. Any news about the update?

Thanks for your help

Take care with such rumours. They often start from wishfull thinking, ½reading posts and missunderstandings.

I never heard that one before.

On 2004-08-04 15:02, Stige wrote:
I have some questions concerning VDAT..
How much VDAT uses DSP?

close to nothing, you cannot compare it with a sampler, as it doesn't process anything but just routes the data stream.
Even on a Scope Home you'd never run out of DSP resources
It will use up some PCI bandwith, on my system I can load one more Masterverb if VDAT isn't present.

Have I understood this correctly, I need 4 VDAT plugin instances simultaneously to be able to play 32 tracks?

on a single instance you can create the desired number of tracks in groups of 8 - up to 128. This matches the use of a large Adat system controlled by the BRC (big remote controller)

How can I access the tracks if I want to edit them manually? Are they 'encoded' inside that tape file?

you have to edit them manually. VDAT is like a tape recorder, no more - no less
the tracks are just .wav files and there's an additional 'tape index' file in the same directory as the track files.

Is it impossible to import tracks into VDAT?Is recording them the only way to go?

on a regular base - yes, it's impossible.
You could fool the system by opening an existing track with a wave editor and paste your stuff at the appropriate position, but probably one had to be careful not to mess the files integrity.
It's an academic question, as for arranging you'd need an editor anyway.

cheers, Tom

On 2004-08-04 15:02, Stige wrote:
I have some questions concerning VDAT..

good

How much VDAT uses DSP?

Almost nothing, alot less than sts anyway!

Have I understood this correctly, I need 4 VDAT plugin instances simultaneously to be able to play 32 tracks?

No, there is a setting panel in vdat where you tell it how many groups of 8 tracks you want. But only one instance of vdat in the project, it will grow, like micromixer.

How can I access the tracks if I want to edit them manually? Are they 'encoded' inside that tape file?

You can open them in any wav editor that support your chosen bits depth. But be carefull, if you modify it outside vdat, vdat could not be able to open it back...

What i usualy do is track always with the same 'preformated tape' in the same directory. Once i'm happy with recordings, i copy track i want to keep in the project diredctory, then open in nuendo to chop cut mangle etc... has i wish.

Is it impossible to import tracks into VDAT?Is recording them the only way to go?

Yes, but there is also some not very well known trick with it, it can record itself.

There is supposed to be VDAT2 some day

I surely hope so!!! I remember having read 'something' about some new developpement from creamware on it. Words from Frank Hund, but it's been a while, and othing has been said since...

Hope this help!

On 2004-08-04 16:13, marcuspocus wrote:
...
But only one instance of vdat in the project, it will grow, like micromixer ...

I just tried this - you CAN add another instance with a different set of tapes.
It's a handy feature to spread them over several disks

cheers, Tom
ps: nice to read how much we agree, Marcuspocus

On 2004-08-04 16:10, astroman wrote:

Is it impossible to import tracks into VDAT?Is recording them the only way to go?

on a regular base - yes, it's impossible.

Nonsense. Just edit the tape index and insert a new file path.

I took files that had been recorded in Nuendo and created a new tape index for them, and voila -- I could play them back from VDAT.

It's not exactly GUI friendly, and you have to re-load the tape, but it does work.

Of course all tracks start at the same position. So if you have a tiny sound clip, you're better off using a sequencer.

Cheers,

Johann

Thanks all for the help. Now I can start scraping my wallet
Hopefully that 50% price offer is still valid.

Yes, but there is also some not very well known trick with it, it can record itself.

yep, just use my feedback module.

best
Wolfgang

This question didn't seem to get answered. If you record a file into VDAT,then open that file in say, wavelab and do some wave editing,when you open the file back in VDAT will the wavefile retain the same quality? Also there is going to be an update to 3dat in a couple weeks.XP compatible and 32 bit capable. I wonder if its sound quality would be the same as VDAT.

if you use an editor that operates on the same resolution (32bit integer) and cut and paste various parts of a VDAT trackfile, there is of course no quality change.

if you apply processing functions, then the quality will be as good as the programmer of the plugin allowed
There ARE some very good native plugins, it's just not the majority.

if you open the file in an editor that operates on a different number format, then the numeric conversion may have an influence on the sound. Again, it depends on how good the cinversion routines are programmed.

TripleDat and and VDAT can hardly be compared due to their different modes of operation - but the idea to apply the same audio engine is pretty obvious.

cheers, Tom

I guess it wouldn't be that obvious to me that they would have the same audio engine,precisely because they are two different modes of operation,and both programs might have been written by different programmers.I mostly record piano jazz so having waveform editing would be nice but not as important as sound quality.Iwould prefer to get the new 3DAT,but if VDAT sounds better I would rather get it first.I wonder if it is possible that VDAT sounds so good because it doesn't have editing.Less complicated.Although I haven't the slightest idea if that would have anything to do with it.

well, actually VDAT hasn't any 'sound' (of it's own) at all.
It just writes the datastreams travelling between the DSPs to disk - in exactly the same numerical representation they are processed.

That way a VDAT record sounds exactly the same as the stuff you're monitoring, provided the monitors are connected at the mixer's master out.

Because I don't have Cubase or a similiar app, I can't comment on the degree of deviation, but it has been brought to notice several times here by those, who have.

In another thread someone was informed (obviuosly by a knowledgable person) that the SFP mixers are on par with ProTools HD, and that is something respectable

For me VDAT is the 'classical' tape recorder - it captures exactly what's going on and later the best pieces are cut and compiled.
All is kept in it's original form on separate tracks, so later I can do with it whatever enters my mind.

But most of all I like it's absolut stupidly simple recording interface.
Arm the tracks, record, go ! A one button push

The possibility to place the VDAT module right in the middle of the signal chain is ingenious.
You don't have to setup a separate playback path. It's just as if the original instruments were playing.

I don't want it any more complicated than this and that's (imho) what every sequencer does - a mess.
Even TripleDat is somewhat annoying in the recording domain, though dealing with the recorded stuff is another story, there it shines.

cheers, Tom

Here's what I would like to see:

1. Record your tracks into VDAT.
2. Import tracks into a wave editor for minimal slice'n'dice.
3. Bring those tracks into VDAT, go through a mixer, then to VDAT for your master stereo CD-quality wave file.

This would preserve the quality of the Scope recordings, keeping any non-Scope process-mangling out of the picture.

But, from what I can tell, you can't touch VDAT files, and it is only mono.

"dream on, little dreamer dream on, the world ain't what you think it is, it's just what it is"

What is hard about editing mono WAV files?

I've never used an editor that can't handle the standard WAV format. The header of the WAV file specifies how many bits are used per sample, and any editor worth more than a dollar had better support at least 32 bit sample sizes.

I also don't understand why a stereo WAV file is necessary. When you're ready for dumping to CD, use an editor and put the left mono WAV file onto the left side of a stereo track, and the right mono WAV file onto the right side. Save your stereo WAV file, and it's ready to burn.

There is nothing magic about VDAT.

On 2004-08-09 13:16, alabama wrote:
Here's what I would like to see:

1. Record your tracks into VDAT.
2. Import tracks into a wave editor for minimal slice'n'dice.
3. Bring those tracks into VDAT, go through a mixer, then to VDAT for your master stereo CD-quality wave file.

This would preserve the quality of the Scope recordings, keeping any non-Scope process-mangling out of the picture.

But, from what I can tell, you can't touch VDAT files, and it is only mono.

"dream on, little dreamer dream on, the world ain't what you think it is, it's just what it is"

Not true. But you need to free the files from VDAT before you can edit them - simply press STOP again while the VDAT is stopped. Now, you can even configure what editor to use from VDAT.
Yes, these are mono files, but that's ok as you should give each track special consideration when editing. If you absolutely need to edit in stereo then you could always make a temporary stereo file of two tracks in your editor, edit and then copy them to mono again after.

Do the same for mixdown, except keep the stereo file.

The only problem though, I have yet to find a editor that reads and writes 32 bit integer files, but 16 and 24 will open fine in wavelab at least.