PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:38 pm**

I don't own VDAT, so I can't speak intelligently about its details, but I do understand its purpose. An earlier post said that once you edited a file outside of VDAT, that it couldn't be played by VDAT anymore.

My idea with VDAT is to keep sample generation and processing within Scope. I'm learning that if you're not careful, non-Scope programs can mess with your sound.

My only tools are Scope/Pulsar II and Cubase. I don't have any editor that can create a stereo-CD file, and I've been using Cubase to do that. However, the cleanest approach for audio seems to be keep it in Scope for the highest quality.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:03 pm**

VDAT looks interesting - I thought it was just for if you have an ADAT machine.

What are the best apps for recording audio from SFP if you don't have VDAT? - which is best - a dedicated audio programme or sequencer? Are there any differences in recording quality between programmes like SX, Samplitude, SAWStudio, Tracktion, Wavelab and Logic (just for example).

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:24 pm**

correct me if I'm wrong, but since all the apps mentioned communicate via (one of the)ASIO driver(s) I wouldn't expect any difference at all - as long as the application only writes the file to disk and transfers it back to SFP via ASIO for mixing and monitoring.

if I remember right there's a number conversion going on at either the (Scope) ASIO driver or the sequencer, depending on what ASIO version is choosen.

cheers, Tom

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:50 pm**

Yes ASIO driver is same but audio engines are different.eq compression algorythms summing etc.Programming code on how ASIO is manipulated by program.
Why is Cubase MIDI unstable while Logic's is solid?All down to build

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:17 pm**

On 2004-08-09 18:50, Music Manic wrote:
Yes ASIO driver is same but audio engines are different.eq compression algorythms summing etc...

that's why I wrote 'as long as the application only writes data...'
maybe 'as long as it does nothing else but write unmodified data to disk...' would have been better.

It should be clear meanwhile that mediocre leveling and eq-ing are excluded from the valid options

cheers, Tom

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:46 pm**

ASIO is not relevant to editing WAV files.

Alabama: You can take any mono WAV file and play it back from VDAT. I have taken 16 or 24 bit (can't remember which) files recorded in Nuendo and played them back from VDAT. VDAT is not magic.

In Cubase, when you place a couple of mono WAV files into the sequencer and then save the track as a stereo WAV file, nothing changes from the source material. Cubase is not magic either.

Voidar: I'm very surprised that 32 bit isn't handled. Nuendo handles it. Cool Edit Pro does. I'm not sure about Sound Forge or Vegas.

Incidentally, according to the website for WaveLab, it does too:

WaveLab 5

Do you maybe have an older version?

Cheers,

Johann

[ This Message was edited by: blazesboylan on 2004-08-09 23:47 ]

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:56 pm**

Voidar: I'm very surprised that 32 bit isn't handled. Nuendo handles it. Cool Edit Pro does. I'm not sure about Sound Forge or Vegas.

Incidentally, according to the website for WaveLab, it does too:

WaveLab 5

Do you maybe have an older version?

Cheers,

Johann

[ This Message was edited by: blazesboylan on 2004-08-09 23:47 ]

Well, I tried some time ago with version 4-something and when trying to load a 32-bit clip I got this dialog-box in wavelab whre I could select whatever format I though this was. Maybe I should try again. It could be that VDAT writes rather strange 32 bit files.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:19 pm**

Does anyone know if the asio drivers themselves alter the sound in any way. Also I didn't quite understand for sure if you can record a track into VDAT,import file into wavelab,slice and dice,then import the file back into VDAT? And if you do, will you still retain the original VDAT audio quality. This could also be done ,using the new 3DAT as your editor. Hopefully only another 10 days before new 3DAT is released!! I think best procedure would be;STM2448 into VDAT,import files into 3DAT,record stereo mix back into 3DAT and BURN!! New 3DAT will have CD burning again.You just need nero burning software.

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:26 am**

Does anyone know if the asio drivers themselves alter the sound in any way.

ASIO is not relevant to editing WAV files.

The broader answer is: it depends on which ASIO module you're using.

The sensible answer is: if you can hear the change in sound in a blind taste test, then you have superhumanly sensitive hearing.

Also I didn't quite understand for sure if you can record a track into VDAT,import file into wavelab,slice and dice,then import the file back into VDAT?

WaveLab specifically is up in the air. (Theoretically it should be possible with WaveLab 5. But marketing hype isn't always truthful...)

I'll check on the editing apps I have access to as soon as I get a chance and I'll report back.

In any case, VDAT is not the bottleneck here. It's the editing app that has to support 32 bit WAV files.

And if you do, will you still retain the original VDAT audio quality.

Yes.

There is no magic with audio editing. You remove samples, you move samples around, you save your WAV file. The "sound" does not change.

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:13 am**

Sound Forge 6.0 can edit 32 bit files when used with VDAT. Since there is not a 32 bit wave device in sfp, you have to provide Sound Forge with an already recorded 32 bit file. No problem (that I can hear) in playing back that 32 bit file using the 24 bit wave device in sfp.

Maybe it's time for a "Recording" forum.

Posted: **Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:32 am**

To bump this ...

I never took great notice before but the latest Sound Forge 7.0b can handle 32 bit ( integer ) and even 64 bit ( IEEE FLOAT ).

On the other hand Cubase SX 2.2 cannot handle 32 bit integer only float, I tried and it went poof !

I haven't checked thoroughly the specs of SX3.

[ This Message was edited by: decimator on 2004-09-06 11:33 ]

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:43 pm**

On 2004-08-10 01:26, blazesboylan wrote:
Does anyone know if the asio drivers themselves alter the sound in any way.
ASIO is not relevant to editing WAV files.

The broader answer is: it depends on which ASIO module you're using.

The sensible answer is: if you can hear the change in sound in a blind taste test, then you have superhumanly sensitive hearing.

Also I didn't quite understand for sure if you can record a track into VDAT,import file into wavelab,slice and dice,then import the file back into VDAT?
WaveLab specifically is up in the air. (Theoretically it should be possible with WaveLab 5. But marketing hype isn't always truthful...)

I'll check on the editing apps I have access to as soon as I get a chance and I'll report back.

In any case, VDAT is not the bottleneck here. It's the editing app that has to support 32 bit WAV files.

And if you do, will you still retain the original VDAT audio quality.
Yes.

There is no magic with audio editing. You remove samples, you move samples around, you save your WAV file. The "sound" does not change.

Bumpy. Refreshing an old thread

.

So, what editors can handle 32-bit integer files recorded by STS/VDAT?

The latest Soundforge was noted. How about the latest Wavelab?

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:16 pm**

tdat/cutmaster.

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2004-12-23 13:17 ]

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:47 pm**

Yes, all CWA recording technology only can work with linear integer formats, doesn't recognize floating point ones.
VDAT's 32 bits are true 32 bits, integer, while Steinberger only makes 32 f.p., somehow a variant of 24 bits.

All this brings to limitations, because these apps can't communicate on their top quality formats, but it's not the end of the world...

I think that things will never stop to change.

[ This Message was edited by: alfonso on 2004-12-23 20:38 ]

Posted: **Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:46 pm**

I think tdat and cutmaster can't support 32 bit wave file. It's not even support 24 bit wave file. It support only 16 bit file. If you do import 24 bit wave, the program will convert to 16 bit.

Please someone tell me if I'm wrong or I don't know the trick to do 32 bit wav in tdat or cutmaster.

I wish I think wrong =)

PS. can someone trick tdat or cutmaster to support 96k?

Thank you.

Posted: **Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:28 am**

TripledatLE can record at 44 or 48 Khz only but i must check if can reach 32 bits.
Read about my (bad) experience with tripleDatLE :

I've buy TripleDat LE just yesterday...and im really angry with creamwhore!!!!!!!!!!!
I've buy TripleDatLe for use into SFP for record 2 track mixdowns from the main mix outputs,but u can use TripleDatLe only as "standalone" u must close SFP and Open Tripledat...!!!!I think this is a real bullshit....how we must wait for a plug-in version of triple dat on win xp?
And for the money i've wasted buyng this useless application? (every audio editor such as sound forge or wavelab is a lot better than tripledat!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Posted: **Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:47 am**

the same in this thread: your expectations where wrong, sorry to say that

Posted: **Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:55 am**

hi

doesn0t works at 96khz and doesn't support vst?
i have save money

[ This Message was edited by: cannonball on 2004-12-27 08:56 ]

Posted: **Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:32 am**

But if you copy all your device from SFP to TripleDAT, then you can use all your plugins from SFP in TripleDAT. This means while you load TripleDAT, you can still open you main sequencer and load your STM4896 mixer, use your favorite Scope PlugIns just exactly like you use SFP. Than you can easily print you Mix Down to TripleDAT as seperate master software.

This is how I like TripleDAT, and most important thing -- It sounds great!! And I feel that I always preferred the sound of TripleDAT because it force to use only Scope PlugIns. May be VST plugins (that you think it sounds supurb) will affect the quality of internal calculation of SHARC DSP and might degrade the overall fullness, depth and detailes of sound. As conclusion, VST plugins might compromise the sound quality and compromise the internal calculation of SHARC DSP.

But sure, I feel tripleDAT need major update, such as..

- support 32bit, 96K
- The Routing windows CAN BE SAVED!! along the arrangement
- Better Monitoring support for the input of TripleDAT when press arm record (just exactly the same way of what creamware do in VDAT for monitoring)
- Better CD Record engine
- Support DDP Export for Master CD Press (Optional)
- Internal AUX Send in TripleDAT mixer
- Fix audio dropout when moving TripleDAT mixer
- Automation and External controllor support

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:07 pm**

On 2004-07-21 19:54, at0m|c wrote:
32bit float only has 24bit precision, while 32 integer has 32bit precision. The DSP cards use integer, do you often not have enough headroom? I use 24 for recording.

VDAT does 16, 24, 32 integer. I got it like a month ago and like it big time, but sync'ing SX2 to it doesn't work too well. I use VRC-128, send it to ASIO2's clock input thru VDAT's clock ports.

Hint on VDAT: I can't seem to rename the files in VDAT. So I rename the files from an explorer, then open the VDAT project with a text editor and correct the paths. Same way you could move some files to another drive...

What I also noticed is that VDAT uses a lot of CPU when running lots of tracks. Like 50% of my 2,533GHz P4 for 24 or 32 tracks. Running the same in Cubase uses only about 6% CPU!

Instead of adding a click track as b0rg does, I record a ramp of like 7 minutes and a version that is harmed to a basic 16-step pattern and one for pattern selection. I sync all patches to it: the sequencers and all modulations are driven from that ramp. It's also shaped to spit out MIDI CC# to the mixers and other non-modular stuff like effects for song automation. I don't use any MIDI in this song that I'm working on, it's completely ramp driven. Anyone in for a minimal experiment? Check out this tune, it's a 6.5mb example of this VDAT/flexor project. The only pre-fab effects used are EQ and reverb. It's still being worked on, it's itching to being imported to Cubase now for some chopping and arranging. Once edited, the tracks will run back thru the VDAT and modular mill. I'm having lots of fun with this zero native excursion [edit] this version's been thru SX, you hear Supatrigger on the snare...

Also, in a heavier project, VRC-128 starts to act weird, for example I lost some parts when during recording tracks were armed and disarmed almost at random, automatically! :z I back up now, and delete VRC-128 once the project gets huge, to avoid the losses...

_________________
More has been done with less.

[ This Message was edited by: at0m|c on 2004-07-22 06:25 ]

Could you elaborate this, how you can automate a SFP mixer using recorded ramp singals? Would you need one track for each CC or?

PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

V-DAT Quality