Send busses? What are you talking about?
I haven't kept up on the minute-by-minute going's on but a couple of days after the storm hit, there was a guy up here in Chicago from some small town in Louisiana who was organizing a food/clothing drive for the people in his town. He managed to get the attention of the local TV news stations (specifically Channel 9 news which is where I saw him). The reporter was, of course, asking this person general questions about the area and this guy mentioned that as soon as people realized that they needed to get out, all the roads instantly clogged up and traffic pretty much ground to a standstill. So I ask you, how many busses should have been sent and how do you suppose they would have gotten out if they had been sent? I'm not saying nothing should have been done and we should just sit back and do nothing - but let's try and keep perspective. If there's any good to come out of this, perhaps we'll learn how to better deal with these sorts of problems in the future. Maybe we need better roads?
Getting back to this press conference I mentioned earlier, the other big question on everyone's mind was why it was taking so long to get aid down there. What people (even the seemingly intelligent ones) don't always see are the inherent problems associated with mobilizing the equivalent of an Army and moving "said Army" at a moment's notice - especially into an area that is extremely difficult and dangerous to get into in the first place.
I'd like to pose a hypotetical for a moment: disaster preparedness - do you suppose it's possible that a giant meteorite, with our name on it, is hurdling towards us at near light speed somewhere in this big universe? And if so, what do you think we should be doing about it? Why aren't we building some sort of giant freaking lazer beam the size of Texas that would be used to disintegrate the meteorite before it hits us? What is wrong with President Bush and our governments that they aren't taking the appropriate steps to save us from the giant meteorite?
Or do you suppose that the greatest minds on the planet have already considered all that, crunched the numbers, and decided that the cost to build the world's biggest giant freaking lazer beam was not economically feasible and that whatever monies were available for planetary protection might be better spent on other things? Makes you wonder doesn't it?
Hurricane Katrina
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hubird
The magnitude of the disaster is put into perspective pretty well when you consider the area affected is roughly equivalent to the size of UK (remember - lots of people stranded in other places than N.O.). Not everyone can be helped FIRST in such a huge disaster regardless the amount of forces mobilized. Simple logistics - esp. when you consider that many of the stranded are being pulled out one at a time. It's a horrible mess.
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Nat. Guard are at the disposal of the State Governor - My recollection is that's how May 4th @ Kent State Univ. came about - Ohio's illustrious Gov. James A. Rhodes called in the Ohio Nat. Guard to help control a potential riot situation. Not all that happens in the world can be the direct responsibility one person. I'm not inferring the LA Governor is at fault, but there are more than one line of power involved. Also, see below under "Rationale and Decision Making as Related to Proximity with Actual Event."
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Last I checked, any fire arm can be used to induce death - even little girly pisols. Regardless the probability I don't believe civilian aid workers should be expected to put themselves into potential firezones. They must wait for the all-clear and go-ahead from security forces before they proceed.
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We're not the only people on earth with a brain. Many, many people, whom I assume have reasonable intelligece, are a lot closer to this situation and are responsible for the tactical requirements to accomplish what is necessary. They are responsible for the positions they hold and deserve the opportunity to prove themselves without being micro-managed by us and the media. Decisions that have been made probably have had good reasoning behind them. It's fine to inquire the reasons, but it's premature to draw conclusions. Lets give people an ounce of credit, let them do their jobs and stop hacking from our comfy-chairs. The media's camera does not tell all there is to know, I'm certain of that. It's my belief that people, in general, are interested in doing the right thing to help their fellow man and can and will go to great lengths to that end. Because sometimes things don't happen perfectly usually does not mean a plot is unfolding, it only means that we're human and things get f*&ked up sometimes. If you truly believe that campaigns are plotted in "smoke-filled back rooms" toward the extermination and detriment of social/racial classes then you live in a very different, smaller and darker world than the one I live in.
Remember, we project what we are onto others.
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Good luck, and god bless.
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Nat. Guard are at the disposal of the State Governor - My recollection is that's how May 4th @ Kent State Univ. came about - Ohio's illustrious Gov. James A. Rhodes called in the Ohio Nat. Guard to help control a potential riot situation. Not all that happens in the world can be the direct responsibility one person. I'm not inferring the LA Governor is at fault, but there are more than one line of power involved. Also, see below under "Rationale and Decision Making as Related to Proximity with Actual Event."
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Last I checked, any fire arm can be used to induce death - even little girly pisols. Regardless the probability I don't believe civilian aid workers should be expected to put themselves into potential firezones. They must wait for the all-clear and go-ahead from security forces before they proceed.
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We're not the only people on earth with a brain. Many, many people, whom I assume have reasonable intelligece, are a lot closer to this situation and are responsible for the tactical requirements to accomplish what is necessary. They are responsible for the positions they hold and deserve the opportunity to prove themselves without being micro-managed by us and the media. Decisions that have been made probably have had good reasoning behind them. It's fine to inquire the reasons, but it's premature to draw conclusions. Lets give people an ounce of credit, let them do their jobs and stop hacking from our comfy-chairs. The media's camera does not tell all there is to know, I'm certain of that. It's my belief that people, in general, are interested in doing the right thing to help their fellow man and can and will go to great lengths to that end. Because sometimes things don't happen perfectly usually does not mean a plot is unfolding, it only means that we're human and things get f*&ked up sometimes. If you truly believe that campaigns are plotted in "smoke-filled back rooms" toward the extermination and detriment of social/racial classes then you live in a very different, smaller and darker world than the one I live in.
Remember, we project what we are onto others.
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Good luck, and god bless.
...especially considering they've calculated the impact site as somewhere east of Cleveland, OH. High amounts of unemployment there - a huge burden to the government(s).On 2005-09-04 10:04, krizrox wrote:
Or do you suppose that the greatest minds on the planet have already considered all that, crunched the numbers, and decided that the cost to build the world's biggest giant freaking lazer beam was not economically feasible...
(Aside - In case anyone in the mainstream press is reading, I know that wasn't very PC of me...that's roughly my location and situation. I'm not acutally proposing such action be taken to settle any vendetta I have with the inhabitants in the area).
when they wanted to go after non existant weapons of mass destruction, no force on earth, no dollar amount could keep that from happening. if they wanted to save the residents of new orleans, it would have been over and done by tuesday. there is NO excuse. also, the decision to leave the levees as they were was not defendable. as casper said, the dutch are well familiar with dikes and the dutch model was known to be nessessary, but was decided to be left alone....
face it. those in charge do NOT care about the poor. especially the dark-skinned poor. if they did, the poor wouldn't be so ignorant or miserable. if those in charge felt a strong family connection to the poor, this world wouldn't behave so cruelly. the behavior of the government in new orleans HAS been cruel, too. imagine that you were there and then see if it looks like enough has been done to help people.
as to guns, the number of shooters is minimal compared to iraq or even watts or compton(nickerson gardens apartments is notorious for gunmen) and authorities go there daily. 9th ward is dangerous, but it's maybe 100 people not 1000's or 10,000s...
face it. those in charge do NOT care about the poor. especially the dark-skinned poor. if they did, the poor wouldn't be so ignorant or miserable. if those in charge felt a strong family connection to the poor, this world wouldn't behave so cruelly. the behavior of the government in new orleans HAS been cruel, too. imagine that you were there and then see if it looks like enough has been done to help people.
as to guns, the number of shooters is minimal compared to iraq or even watts or compton(nickerson gardens apartments is notorious for gunmen) and authorities go there daily. 9th ward is dangerous, but it's maybe 100 people not 1000's or 10,000s...
I just thought of a title for a piece I've been working on:
"Dirge of the Chronically Dissatisfied and Irate"
(It has no intro or verses per-se, just a hollow, obnoxious chorus that keeps repeating and never really changes or fades out)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: narly on 2005-09-04 17:08 ]</font>
"Dirge of the Chronically Dissatisfied and Irate"
(It has no intro or verses per-se, just a hollow, obnoxious chorus that keeps repeating and never really changes or fades out)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: narly on 2005-09-04 17:08 ]</font>
well it's obvious that you don't care either. welcome to hell, it can only get worse.....
if you had family there, you'd be feeling much differently....
to add to the unpleasant chorus:
http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/3941.php
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-09-04 17:55 ]</font>
if you had family there, you'd be feeling much differently....
to add to the unpleasant chorus:
http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/3941.php
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-09-04 17:55 ]</font>
Narly - Still pissed about your Social Security statement huh?
By the way, I'm not dissatisfied in any conventional sense - although I don't have luxuries like owning my own house/apartment or car, I'm content, even though the government screws a hell of a lot of money out of me for tax. I know I'm luckier than a lot of other people.
However, just because I'm okay doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and marvel at how fair the world is. There is crazy injustice out there, and it is driven by relentless pursuit of profits at any cost (this sounds paradoxical and it is), and a system that's designed to concentrate wealth within a very small elite, while everyone else suffers.
I'm not saying capitalism is necessarily bad. But extreme capitalism is just as bad as extreme socialism or extreme anything.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-09-04 17:55 ]</font>
By the way, I'm not dissatisfied in any conventional sense - although I don't have luxuries like owning my own house/apartment or car, I'm content, even though the government screws a hell of a lot of money out of me for tax. I know I'm luckier than a lot of other people.
However, just because I'm okay doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and marvel at how fair the world is. There is crazy injustice out there, and it is driven by relentless pursuit of profits at any cost (this sounds paradoxical and it is), and a system that's designed to concentrate wealth within a very small elite, while everyone else suffers.
I'm not saying capitalism is necessarily bad. But extreme capitalism is just as bad as extreme socialism or extreme anything.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-09-04 17:55 ]</font>
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Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Home By The Sea
Maybe you could dedicate it to the people who are constantly whining that people are discussing things they don't want discussed, they are too stupid to know what they're talking about, it's all futile and it's a waste of time and getting us nowhere, etc.On 2005-09-04 17:02, narly wrote:
I just thought of a title for a piece I've been working on:
"Dirge of the Chronically Dissatisfied and Irate"
(It has no intro or verses per-se, just a hollow, obnoxious chorus that keeps repeating and never really changes or fades out)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: narly on 2005-09-04 17:08 ]</font>
Another thing I've noticed is the right-wing nutnecks are claiming that New Orleans deserved it because it was a city of sin.
I find this attitude from self-professed 'Christians' to be bizarre. In the Bible, loving and helping thy neighbour is shown to be a hell of a lot more important than getting pissed off about homosexuals, benefit freeloaders, abortion and sex before marriage.
Personally I believe in God but I think these right-wing Christians are money-chasing frauds.
I find this attitude from self-professed 'Christians' to be bizarre. In the Bible, loving and helping thy neighbour is shown to be a hell of a lot more important than getting pissed off about homosexuals, benefit freeloaders, abortion and sex before marriage.
Personally I believe in God but I think these right-wing Christians are money-chasing frauds.
Of course it's horrible, I just think it's a little premature to choose who's neck should be in the noose for it...and whether that will help anything in the long run (other than the politicians and the media).
Frankly, we weren't there to witness so we don't know (a lesson I work with my children on occaision). I personally don't get worked up about what the cable-news media reports since, as usual, they're exploiting and sensationalizing it for the sake of ratings. I do see the horrible conditions, the devastation, the loss.
It's horrible. An outrage.
However, for example, if I hear that a helicopter ruined a food drop (inept minions of the evil GWB) and then used their weapons to warn off some people approaching it, I'm not going to pass judgement and become outraged unless (1) I'm omnicient and know exactly what those persons were thinking and the exact protocol the military is required to follow or (2) I find out that information from a reliable source. Until then, I have to assume the actions taken were for specific reasons unknown to me at this moment, because I don't know everything.
To 'rez, Len, Gary, et. al. If your of a mind at this moment that GWB is completely responsible, you're entitled. I claim a share to the same entitlement and am exercising it, thanks.
Trust in God. God works in your life through people. Trust your fellow humans.
(BTW; last I checked, that doesn't make me a Christian zealot).
Frankly, we weren't there to witness so we don't know (a lesson I work with my children on occaision). I personally don't get worked up about what the cable-news media reports since, as usual, they're exploiting and sensationalizing it for the sake of ratings. I do see the horrible conditions, the devastation, the loss.
It's horrible. An outrage.
However, for example, if I hear that a helicopter ruined a food drop (inept minions of the evil GWB) and then used their weapons to warn off some people approaching it, I'm not going to pass judgement and become outraged unless (1) I'm omnicient and know exactly what those persons were thinking and the exact protocol the military is required to follow or (2) I find out that information from a reliable source. Until then, I have to assume the actions taken were for specific reasons unknown to me at this moment, because I don't know everything.
To 'rez, Len, Gary, et. al. If your of a mind at this moment that GWB is completely responsible, you're entitled. I claim a share to the same entitlement and am exercising it, thanks.
Trust in God. God works in your life through people. Trust your fellow humans.
(BTW; last I checked, that doesn't make me a Christian zealot).
gwb is NOT the cause of all this mess. he has played a starring role, but he is not the prime motivating force. eugenics(THE breeding program of the elite, whatever/whomever they are)is a known FACT. many books, programs and governments(for example, fascist nazi germany) have been organized based on it. the problem is systematic and the problem remains in force as long as people find these situations acceptable.
by their fruits, ye shall know them.
needless tragedy and death shows the fruits of the tree known as devils.
if you think that "god works through people" mmeans that god has ordained this, you may find yourself worshipping devils. god may have allowed it or even made the world so that the behavior that people have shown leads to this type of destruction, but if that is so, the YOU and YOURS had better prepare, for you are as worthy of devastation and neglect as ANY in new orleans.
if you mean that everything will turn out o.k., i agree, with the stipulation that this world is but an illusion, anyway. this makes the agony that at least 250,000 people are experiencing no less agonizing , however. i agree that blaming won't help, but there are soldiers there not helping and not allowing help, so what then?
where is the love? don't talk about gunmen because that is laughable. the whole city isn't shooting. 249,900 of them want to be helped. i don't always agree with canye west or like his music, but his comments were right on target. most of those trapped are black. most of them are dirt poor. most of them will die through inaction.
by their fruits, ye shall know them.
needless tragedy and death shows the fruits of the tree known as devils.
if you think that "god works through people" mmeans that god has ordained this, you may find yourself worshipping devils. god may have allowed it or even made the world so that the behavior that people have shown leads to this type of destruction, but if that is so, the YOU and YOURS had better prepare, for you are as worthy of devastation and neglect as ANY in new orleans.
if you mean that everything will turn out o.k., i agree, with the stipulation that this world is but an illusion, anyway. this makes the agony that at least 250,000 people are experiencing no less agonizing , however. i agree that blaming won't help, but there are soldiers there not helping and not allowing help, so what then?
where is the love? don't talk about gunmen because that is laughable. the whole city isn't shooting. 249,900 of them want to be helped. i don't always agree with canye west or like his music, but his comments were right on target. most of those trapped are black. most of them are dirt poor. most of them will die through inaction.
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hubird
so, is there anything in the world that could justify this crew behaviour?On 2005-09-04 19:17, narly wrote:
However, for example, if I hear that a helicopter ruined a food drop (inept minions of the evil GWB) and then used their weapons to warn off some people approaching it, I'm not going to pass judgement and become outraged
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-09-04 20:00 ]</font>
I meant that there are people who are doing good right now. Volunteers, soldiers, the victims themselves to each other, etc. And that there will always be someone there when disaster strikes. I don't believe that these things would happen if we lived in a Godless world.
I always understood that there was minimal gunfire; not rampant - my point on this is that we should expect that unarmed red-cross or other civi aid workers will not be rushing into an area which was potentially live. Even 10 shooters could hold up things for a good while for a large number of those needing assistance. The helicopter air-lifts for example. 1 shot should be enough to call that off until the site is secured. The risk to all is too great without security. Secure it promptly, yes. No reason not to.
Have a peaceful week...
I always understood that there was minimal gunfire; not rampant - my point on this is that we should expect that unarmed red-cross or other civi aid workers will not be rushing into an area which was potentially live. Even 10 shooters could hold up things for a good while for a large number of those needing assistance. The helicopter air-lifts for example. 1 shot should be enough to call that off until the site is secured. The risk to all is too great without security. Secure it promptly, yes. No reason not to.
Have a peaceful week...
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Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Home By The Sea
I have repeatedly said I don't consider GWB "completely responsible" not only for the handling of this incident, but a lot of problems in the world that are blamed on US policy (whether fairly or not). I think (1) the system is too complicated for any one person to take too much credit, (2) that GWB is a glorified cue-card reader for the people who paid for his ascendancy into a position of power, just like Clinton before him, and (3) that everyone is to a certain extent responsible for the problems that occur in the world, you can spread the blame around quite a bit.To 'rez, Len, Gary, et. al. If your of a mind at this moment that GWB is completely responsible, you're entitled. I claim a share to the same entitlement and am exercising it, thanks.
I agree with you there. Things would be hopeless if you couldn't do this.Trust in God. God works in your life through people. Trust your fellow humans.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Liquid Len on 2005-09-04 21:05 ]</font>
narly, i agree.On 2005-09-04 19:59, narly wrote:
I meant that there are people who are doing good right now. Volunteers, soldiers, the victims themselves to each other, etc. And that there will always be someone there when disaster strikes. I don't believe that these things would happen if we lived in a Godless world.
I always understood that there was minimal gunfire; not rampant - my point on this is that we should expect that unarmed red-cross or other civi aid workers will not be rushing into an area which was potentially live. Even 10 shooters could hold up things for a good while for a large number of those needing assistance. The helicopter air-lifts for example. 1 shot should be enough to call that off until the site is secured. The risk to all is too great without security. Secure it promptly, yes. No reason not to.
Have a peaceful week...
about the danger to aid workers though, that's what a heavily armed national guard is for. no excuses for not helping humans in such dire need.
*edit*
it seems that significant aid is finally coming to n.o.. rant over, thanks for the indulgence.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-09-05 02:08 ]</font>
Narly - I think there's more to the creator's masterplan than just sitting about getting fat thinking everything is going to be okay as He has everyone's best interests at heart.
If this was the case there would be absolutely no motivation to do diddly squat in life.
Sometimes we need to fight for our own good. I have no doubt that all this is God's doing but IMHO He would want us to question why people are being meaninglessly killed by man-made factors - the actual high winds of the hurricane did not directly kill many but the shoddy human relief operation did.
There are profoundly evil forces in power at the moment and if you want me to just sit back and take it because it's 'God's will' then you're sadly mistaken.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-09-05 02:27 ]</font>
If this was the case there would be absolutely no motivation to do diddly squat in life.
Sometimes we need to fight for our own good. I have no doubt that all this is God's doing but IMHO He would want us to question why people are being meaninglessly killed by man-made factors - the actual high winds of the hurricane did not directly kill many but the shoddy human relief operation did.
There are profoundly evil forces in power at the moment and if you want me to just sit back and take it because it's 'God's will' then you're sadly mistaken.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-09-05 02:27 ]</font>