Hi! I thought of continuing this discussion here to leave the other threads free from our devotional enthusiastic spiritual endeavours and questionings!
Please, keep arguments out of here, only peaceful constructive discussion and sharing. Please, those who can't respect other's points of view and faith stay out of here. Thank you and God bless you.
Constructive thread about God and related matters
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marcuspocus
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Canada/France
I'm like Ken on this subject, no too keen to talk about this into a "pulsar/music/tech forum". But hey, it's not like we aren't being warning by the thread name.
This could be an interesting thread anyway. But it's always a scary subject. People's could make it drift far away from original intention.
I'll be reading.
This could be an interesting thread anyway. But it's always a scary subject. People's could make it drift far away from original intention.
I'll be reading.
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Neil B
I agree with Ken that this isn't the right site to get into heated debates about religion in any form. Bear in mind that "religion" does not mean faith either - don't confuse the two.
I remember last year feeling that I had "upset the site" by wishing everyone a Merry Christmas. That alone stimulated a very heated thread on "religious" matters.
You will not get answers if you continue this thread. You will only get personal opinions that cannot be swayed in a setting such as a text based forum.
It would be a great shame to lose sight of the friendship that exists between ALL members of this site by arguing on a subject such as religion. Let's face it, there is no answer, because the answer is FAITH only and that cannot be proven or quantified.
Let's step back a minute and look at how this thread could go (off the top of my head)
1: Anger at the organised church - justifiable for many (hopefully there are no abused choirboys here)
2: Anger at the organised church regarding wealth and power
3: Definition of a "religious" person (I go to the toilet religiously when I get up in a morning
)
A recent census in Great Britain (held every 10 years)saw 76% of the population say that they were Christian - total crap! Only 3% go to church and of them, many are pew fillers - the real number of real Christians in Britain is about 1%. So what will you argue on that count?
As an example - my father is a lapsed Roman Catholic. He is now somewhere between atheist and fatalist. I bet that he put himself as a Christian on the census and I expect that he will call for a priest when he is on his deathbed (insurance).
The other 75% may say "I believe in God". So what - nobody believes in God more than Satan and look where it got him!!
Many people use God as an emergency service - 911 for police, fire, paramedics & prayer to God when things get rough in their lives.
4: Arguments about different faiths because we come from all over the world? You won't get answers to that either.
I have a particular complaint that in Britain, we concede everything to ethnic minorities. Wait a minute - that is not being racist - I'm not. Every programme on TV has someone saying "Oh My God" or other similar blasphemies - which believe you me, really offends someone with faith. Nobody cares. Now, if that TV programme said "By Allah" or similar, there would be hell to pay and complaints would pour in.
So you won't be able to argue different faiths and get an answer either.
5: The role of the church in politics
6: The role of the organised church in wars (Bob Dylan - "With God on our side").
7: Homosexuality in the organised church, or acceptance in any church (gay bishops).
OKAY - the list is endless and all you are doing is opening up a stage for everyone to voice a personal opinion, an unshakeable opinion mostly, about a lot of subjects that may or may not have something to do with God.
I really believe that if you let this thread run you will create disharmony in the ranks of us music folks and that is the last thing that we want.
You are in danger of alienating current friends (in your own mind). In a way, each of us will create their own "DXL's" and that will create an attitude and mood that cannot be repaired.
All of you who are familiar with my texts and musical uploads (if they can be called music ) will know that I am a fully committed Christian. The music I write is often gospel based and to the credit of everyone - you comment on the music and production, not the story.
I have taken time out in my career in the past to work for inner city missions.
I have spoken at services.
Etc Etc Etc.
So I feel that I know what I am talking about. No, I'm no angel - I'm one of the lads just like yourselves. Ask Chris Werner how totally (ab)normal I am
My remit from the Bible is to convert people, but this is NOT the place to do that or to try that. In previous threads I have stated that I will not push anything but you can bombard me with emails if you wish for me to share my faith. I will not do it on this site. I simply ask that you accept and respect my faith.
Now, I would argue that I have perhaps one of the deepest faiths amongst members on this site, so I am going to boldly suggest that, as Ken rightly says, this thread should go no farther.
Eliam, it isn't worth it.
The thread will not work.
Time out for off-topics is healthy in that we can SHARE something other than music.
SHARING is healthy, often good fun, and for most of the off-topic discussions, answers are achieved. If we have a "religion" off-topic, you will not SHARE. You will DEFEND your own point of view. You will SPLIT the membership (or run the risk of splitting it) and you will never recover the harmonious balance that exists amongst us.
I'm sure that John Cooper would not be for a topic such as this either.
C'mon guys - lighten up. Drop the thread.
And finally, for any of you who do have a faith and think that this thread should procede, remember this:
"Preach the Gospel at all times, and if neccessary - use words" (St Francis of Assisi).
By 'eck Neil B - get off your soap box lad"
Love to you all - whatever your standpoint!
_________________
Neil B
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neil B on 2003-09-08 02:55 ]</font>
I remember last year feeling that I had "upset the site" by wishing everyone a Merry Christmas. That alone stimulated a very heated thread on "religious" matters.
You will not get answers if you continue this thread. You will only get personal opinions that cannot be swayed in a setting such as a text based forum.
It would be a great shame to lose sight of the friendship that exists between ALL members of this site by arguing on a subject such as religion. Let's face it, there is no answer, because the answer is FAITH only and that cannot be proven or quantified.
Let's step back a minute and look at how this thread could go (off the top of my head)
1: Anger at the organised church - justifiable for many (hopefully there are no abused choirboys here)
2: Anger at the organised church regarding wealth and power
3: Definition of a "religious" person (I go to the toilet religiously when I get up in a morning
)A recent census in Great Britain (held every 10 years)saw 76% of the population say that they were Christian - total crap! Only 3% go to church and of them, many are pew fillers - the real number of real Christians in Britain is about 1%. So what will you argue on that count?
As an example - my father is a lapsed Roman Catholic. He is now somewhere between atheist and fatalist. I bet that he put himself as a Christian on the census and I expect that he will call for a priest when he is on his deathbed (insurance).
The other 75% may say "I believe in God". So what - nobody believes in God more than Satan and look where it got him!!
Many people use God as an emergency service - 911 for police, fire, paramedics & prayer to God when things get rough in their lives.
4: Arguments about different faiths because we come from all over the world? You won't get answers to that either.
I have a particular complaint that in Britain, we concede everything to ethnic minorities. Wait a minute - that is not being racist - I'm not. Every programme on TV has someone saying "Oh My God" or other similar blasphemies - which believe you me, really offends someone with faith. Nobody cares. Now, if that TV programme said "By Allah" or similar, there would be hell to pay and complaints would pour in.
So you won't be able to argue different faiths and get an answer either.
5: The role of the church in politics
6: The role of the organised church in wars (Bob Dylan - "With God on our side").
7: Homosexuality in the organised church, or acceptance in any church (gay bishops).
OKAY - the list is endless and all you are doing is opening up a stage for everyone to voice a personal opinion, an unshakeable opinion mostly, about a lot of subjects that may or may not have something to do with God.
I really believe that if you let this thread run you will create disharmony in the ranks of us music folks and that is the last thing that we want.
You are in danger of alienating current friends (in your own mind). In a way, each of us will create their own "DXL's" and that will create an attitude and mood that cannot be repaired.
All of you who are familiar with my texts and musical uploads (if they can be called music
) will know that I am a fully committed Christian. The music I write is often gospel based and to the credit of everyone - you comment on the music and production, not the story. I have taken time out in my career in the past to work for inner city missions.
I have spoken at services.
Etc Etc Etc.
So I feel that I know what I am talking about. No, I'm no angel - I'm one of the lads just like yourselves. Ask Chris Werner how totally (ab)normal I am
My remit from the Bible is to convert people, but this is NOT the place to do that or to try that. In previous threads I have stated that I will not push anything but you can bombard me with emails if you wish for me to share my faith. I will not do it on this site. I simply ask that you accept and respect my faith.
Now, I would argue that I have perhaps one of the deepest faiths amongst members on this site, so I am going to boldly suggest that, as Ken rightly says, this thread should go no farther.
Eliam, it isn't worth it.
The thread will not work.
Time out for off-topics is healthy in that we can SHARE something other than music.
SHARING is healthy, often good fun, and for most of the off-topic discussions, answers are achieved. If we have a "religion" off-topic, you will not SHARE. You will DEFEND your own point of view. You will SPLIT the membership (or run the risk of splitting it) and you will never recover the harmonious balance that exists amongst us.
I'm sure that John Cooper would not be for a topic such as this either.
C'mon guys - lighten up. Drop the thread.
And finally, for any of you who do have a faith and think that this thread should procede, remember this:
"Preach the Gospel at all times, and if neccessary - use words" (St Francis of Assisi).
By 'eck Neil B - get off your soap box lad"
Love to you all - whatever your standpoint!
_________________
Neil B
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neil B on 2003-09-08 02:55 ]</font>
At least it should prevent God from hijacking other threads, maybe... ? 
God is cool, Jesus too, God is Love and so is every being. Only, God made us in his own image, beings of FREE WILL, able to decide which path to follow, which creation to manifest. So that accounts for the destruction that we witness in the physical reality. It has nothing to do with God, God gave us almighty tools, -intelligence, feelings, and the energy to propell those into dynamic action- so WE are responsible of how this power is to be used, for WE were entrusted with these mighty gifts. Otherwise we would be a tree or a potato plant, which fulfills its Divine function perfectly but which cannot transcend them in the same sense as human beings can.
So the idea to be free is to use every bit of energy that we receive in a harmonious, constructive manner. Easy to say, a little more difficult to apply, but not that much. I takes a determination of steel.
God is cool, Jesus too, God is Love and so is every being. Only, God made us in his own image, beings of FREE WILL, able to decide which path to follow, which creation to manifest. So that accounts for the destruction that we witness in the physical reality. It has nothing to do with God, God gave us almighty tools, -intelligence, feelings, and the energy to propell those into dynamic action- so WE are responsible of how this power is to be used, for WE were entrusted with these mighty gifts. Otherwise we would be a tree or a potato plant, which fulfills its Divine function perfectly but which cannot transcend them in the same sense as human beings can.
So the idea to be free is to use every bit of energy that we receive in a harmonious, constructive manner. Easy to say, a little more difficult to apply, but not that much. I takes a determination of steel.
Neil, we were writing at the same time. I hope that it won't turn as bad as you predict... For my self, I consider my Truth being worth anything for me alone for only I am my self, so there is nothing for me to fight against unless I am under attack. And then I'll be positive but firm and assert my harmony by repelling the antagonistic things directed at me...
Maybe you're so used at what it's like in your environment to see that constructive discussion about this subject is possible. It IS possible, and it is certainly also a test to see how strong the harmony of this forum really is. Now, I find somewhat unfortunate that your intervention consists of making a list of why this thread should not continue. I understand that you try to be realistic but it is not very positive. Here is how I believe this thread could turn:
1. People will talk about how they personally live their OWN relation to their Source.
2. This may generate enthusiastic discussions and if sometimes things get heated a bit, then it will be an occasion to chill out and realize that we're all brothers on the same path.
3. People may talk about their own religious background whatever it might be and we will compare notes and see how every religion is almost identical at its base.
4. People who refuse the idea of God who will read it will smile and think we're a pathetic bunch of happy illumined brains. Hopefully they will show respect if they choose to join the discussion anyway.
5. We might realize how deeply manipulated mankind has been by various institutions althrough history and choose not to be angry at them because we might well have been them in other embodiments. Even if we did not, it is preferable to do as Jesus taught us and "Love our enemies".
6. Finally we may conclude that whatever our origin may be, we are all One in Love and Universal brotherhood!
Why wouldn't it be that way?
Maybe you're so used at what it's like in your environment to see that constructive discussion about this subject is possible. It IS possible, and it is certainly also a test to see how strong the harmony of this forum really is. Now, I find somewhat unfortunate that your intervention consists of making a list of why this thread should not continue. I understand that you try to be realistic but it is not very positive. Here is how I believe this thread could turn:
1. People will talk about how they personally live their OWN relation to their Source.
2. This may generate enthusiastic discussions and if sometimes things get heated a bit, then it will be an occasion to chill out and realize that we're all brothers on the same path.
3. People may talk about their own religious background whatever it might be and we will compare notes and see how every religion is almost identical at its base.
4. People who refuse the idea of God who will read it will smile and think we're a pathetic bunch of happy illumined brains. Hopefully they will show respect if they choose to join the discussion anyway.
5. We might realize how deeply manipulated mankind has been by various institutions althrough history and choose not to be angry at them because we might well have been them in other embodiments. Even if we did not, it is preferable to do as Jesus taught us and "Love our enemies".
6. Finally we may conclude that whatever our origin may be, we are all One in Love and Universal brotherhood!
Why wouldn't it be that way?
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Neil B
Eliam,
See where it got to last time.
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... orum=31&47
I've stated my viewpoint.
(Edited 'cos I'd missed the smiley off to show that I was in a friendly mood when I wrote it!)
_________________
Neil B
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neil B on 2003-09-08 03:23 ]</font>
See where it got to last time.
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... orum=31&47
I've stated my viewpoint.
(Edited 'cos I'd missed the smiley off to show that I was in a friendly mood when I wrote it!)
_________________
Neil B
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neil B on 2003-09-08 03:23 ]</font>
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wavelength
- Posts: 466
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: wavelength devices
- Contact:
the likely-hood of these threads being constructive and useful is about as likely as (real) peace in the Middle East in the next week or so (and for the same reasons).
i am not suggesting that faith/ god should not be discussed at all, just that history suggests that even when the same thing is being said from different mouths it can sound very different to "different ears". this thread will ultimately (and at the same time) delight some, while deeply offending others (even with the best of intentions).
let's just agree that there is common ground in all faiths (or even in lack of faith, as morality) and also much that exists that undermines these common ideals. what else is there to say in a PUBLIC forum, without offending/ annoying someone?
if this sort of thing continues here, we might as well get into a thread about why YELLOW is so much better than BLUE (of course, we all secretly know that RED is the most beneficial).
God (or lack thereof) is ultimately a personal relationship/ decision (or lack thereof).
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wavelength on 2003-09-08 03:50 ]</font>
i am not suggesting that faith/ god should not be discussed at all, just that history suggests that even when the same thing is being said from different mouths it can sound very different to "different ears". this thread will ultimately (and at the same time) delight some, while deeply offending others (even with the best of intentions).
let's just agree that there is common ground in all faiths (or even in lack of faith, as morality) and also much that exists that undermines these common ideals. what else is there to say in a PUBLIC forum, without offending/ annoying someone?
if this sort of thing continues here, we might as well get into a thread about why YELLOW is so much better than BLUE (of course, we all secretly know that RED is the most beneficial).
God (or lack thereof) is ultimately a personal relationship/ decision (or lack thereof).
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wavelength on 2003-09-08 03:50 ]</font>
This sure is a popular thread for a thread that no one wants anyone else to talk about
Let's add religion to the list of contemporary topics that everyone is too frightened to talk about shall we ? Richard Feynmann made a fantastic speech along these lines where he listed off the various subjects that were in fact "taboo" in a supposedly rational, tolerant and democratic society.
Yet even the mere fact that he dared to mention the topics - even with the introductory disclaimer - dropped him into the middle of ugly controversy.
As much as I'm tempted I won't repeat the list here lest I be be accused of the same things he was.
But it is interesting to reflect on the concepts that are taboo even to discuss - and they go far beyond this thread supposed theme.
Staying within these polite bounds certainly ensures we'll have no ideas from a modern day Gallileo or Giordano Bruno in here.
regards,
Spirit
aka Fleshy Vessel
Let's add religion to the list of contemporary topics that everyone is too frightened to talk about shall we ? Richard Feynmann made a fantastic speech along these lines where he listed off the various subjects that were in fact "taboo" in a supposedly rational, tolerant and democratic society.
Yet even the mere fact that he dared to mention the topics - even with the introductory disclaimer - dropped him into the middle of ugly controversy.
As much as I'm tempted I won't repeat the list here lest I be be accused of the same things he was.
But it is interesting to reflect on the concepts that are taboo even to discuss - and they go far beyond this thread supposed theme.
Staying within these polite bounds certainly ensures we'll have no ideas from a modern day Gallileo or Giordano Bruno in here.
regards,
Spirit
aka Fleshy Vessel
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wavelength
- Posts: 466
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
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marcuspocus
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kensuguro
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oh well, maybe this isn't the best place to be doing this.. but heck, I think we all agree that a positive attempt for love and peace is GOOD. I mean, nobody really wants to knock anyone down in this forum (those that did, were asked to leave), so that leaves us with a civilized, good hearted population. I'm pretty sure that even the people who are in the pro-god thread, and the people in the athiest thread would even want to REALLY get gruelsome about it. Bottom line is, the whole thing is quite peaceful, with no bad intensions. Or atleast I hope it is.
PlanetZ has always been a place for constructive creative thinking, and I think it's one of the few places in the physical and virtual world that is good for the musician. It's not really a matter of religion, or the lack of it. We're all here, we all make music, and we enjoy sharing our viewpoints about it. And since music is a reflection of our own lifestyles, views of life, of course, naturally we'd be talking about a bunch of things, sometimes clashing, sometimes resonating. I'd suppose it's only natural.
And, well, of course there is a distinct line between people who worship god in one form or the other, and those don't think one should or could exist, I guess at the bottom of the whole debate is and should be a sense of intangible harmony amongst all PlanetZ users. The one that always has existed, and the one that will always exist. It's a community that each of us have built up. PlanetZ is a wonderful place because each of has made it that way. So, it is in my hopes that no matter how this discussion turns out, no body gets hurt, or no friends are lost. And most importantly, the PlanetZ flavor of an open creative space. Beyond the importance of sharing viewpoints about all matters, I think this should be most respected.
PlanetZ has always been a place for constructive creative thinking, and I think it's one of the few places in the physical and virtual world that is good for the musician. It's not really a matter of religion, or the lack of it. We're all here, we all make music, and we enjoy sharing our viewpoints about it. And since music is a reflection of our own lifestyles, views of life, of course, naturally we'd be talking about a bunch of things, sometimes clashing, sometimes resonating. I'd suppose it's only natural.
And, well, of course there is a distinct line between people who worship god in one form or the other, and those don't think one should or could exist, I guess at the bottom of the whole debate is and should be a sense of intangible harmony amongst all PlanetZ users. The one that always has existed, and the one that will always exist. It's a community that each of us have built up. PlanetZ is a wonderful place because each of has made it that way. So, it is in my hopes that no matter how this discussion turns out, no body gets hurt, or no friends are lost. And most importantly, the PlanetZ flavor of an open creative space. Beyond the importance of sharing viewpoints about all matters, I think this should be most respected.
I probably shouldn't post in this thread as I also wouldn't like to see the nice atmospheare that exists among people here at PlanetZ destroyed by the oldest topic of dispute in all of mankinds history. Still I feel the need to tune in.
While reading the posts that have been posted this far, I went through a lot of different emotions and impulses that could have taken my post in a lot of different directions - Here's what went through my head while reading this thread:
I have never seen a thread with this topic turn out with a result that anybody could be proud of, so I initially agreed with those who argued to stop this thread before people started to fight among each other here at PlanetZ. But on the other hand, if a thread like this should actually succeed and produce a positive result we all could be proud of, well, Planetz is the only place on the WWW where I think this would be possible, because of the good spirit in here that we all hold so dearly!
Which led me to think that half of the post's in this thread lacked the faith in the PlanetZ-community to discuss topics that we all think about and have a relationship to whether we a believers or not.
Then Eliam started to talk about "the great gifts recieved from our source......." which provoked me into wanting him to answer me, if he thinks that God is an interventionist God - meaning that God is capable of changing the course of human lives by taking actions that will change a persons life, like for example by healing or helping people avoiding catastrophies? I saw the opportunity of a possible attack! - So please Eliam don't answer my question!
I recently lost my dear mother - She died after a vicious battle with cancer over the last two and a half years. About a year ago she started to have problems with her vision, and within a week she was paralysed in the left side of her body, which tied her to the bed the last year of her life, leaving her in the hands of others.
Now if God exists, then I don't think very highly of him to put it mildly - Noone should have to go through what my mother went through!
And I am affraid to say, that I would actually like to have a fight with him and his people, because.... well I think you get the picture.
I wasn't a believer before all this happened, and these recent events certainly haven't made me into one!
Rationally I take a somewhat different standpoint to this issue. I have a BA in philosophy so I know all about the various religious explanations for all the bad things that happen to people in their lives, like "God created this world because it's the best of all possible worlds" and "we are all just small pieces of a bigger picture". And they are all interesting theroies of why bad things happens, but they serve as no proof to me that God exists and they give me no comfort what so ever.
Still I have to take the posistion that we cannot know for sure either that God exists or that God doesn't exists - It's a question that boils down to faith and believing.
I know that this post wasn't the most constructive post, but these were the kind of thoughts that went through my head when I read this thread, and I hope that this post serves as a good example to why both opinions about the existance of this thread are valid.
Peace!
Thomas
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Petal on 2003-09-08 06:29 ]</font>
While reading the posts that have been posted this far, I went through a lot of different emotions and impulses that could have taken my post in a lot of different directions - Here's what went through my head while reading this thread:
I have never seen a thread with this topic turn out with a result that anybody could be proud of, so I initially agreed with those who argued to stop this thread before people started to fight among each other here at PlanetZ. But on the other hand, if a thread like this should actually succeed and produce a positive result we all could be proud of, well, Planetz is the only place on the WWW where I think this would be possible, because of the good spirit in here that we all hold so dearly!
Which led me to think that half of the post's in this thread lacked the faith in the PlanetZ-community to discuss topics that we all think about and have a relationship to whether we a believers or not.
Then Eliam started to talk about "the great gifts recieved from our source......." which provoked me into wanting him to answer me, if he thinks that God is an interventionist God - meaning that God is capable of changing the course of human lives by taking actions that will change a persons life, like for example by healing or helping people avoiding catastrophies? I saw the opportunity of a possible attack! - So please Eliam don't answer my question!
I recently lost my dear mother - She died after a vicious battle with cancer over the last two and a half years. About a year ago she started to have problems with her vision, and within a week she was paralysed in the left side of her body, which tied her to the bed the last year of her life, leaving her in the hands of others.
Now if God exists, then I don't think very highly of him to put it mildly - Noone should have to go through what my mother went through!
And I am affraid to say, that I would actually like to have a fight with him and his people, because.... well I think you get the picture.
I wasn't a believer before all this happened, and these recent events certainly haven't made me into one!
Rationally I take a somewhat different standpoint to this issue. I have a BA in philosophy so I know all about the various religious explanations for all the bad things that happen to people in their lives, like "God created this world because it's the best of all possible worlds" and "we are all just small pieces of a bigger picture". And they are all interesting theroies of why bad things happens, but they serve as no proof to me that God exists and they give me no comfort what so ever.
Still I have to take the posistion that we cannot know for sure either that God exists or that God doesn't exists - It's a question that boils down to faith and believing.
I know that this post wasn't the most constructive post, but these were the kind of thoughts that went through my head when I read this thread, and I hope that this post serves as a good example to why both opinions about the existance of this thread are valid.
Peace!
Thomas
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Petal on 2003-09-08 06:29 ]</font>
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
My own personal view on this matter is that it wouldn't disrupt or divide the forum.. this is one of the few forums where I've seen people debate all manner of things without sinking into silly wars and bad vibes.
Certainly, if I have a disagreement with someone, especially on an off-topic forum, I do not hold a grudge against them on the rest of the forum, I'm happy to help people and contribute info regardless of their beliefs/nationalities/culture/politics/musical tastes/sexuality/[insert whatever here].
However, I think it's important that we all get to know one another as well as possible. It's also a fact that spiritual matters are extremely important to many of us. In fact, the very nature of the concept holds a strong influence on how we behave. And I'm open to hear everything someone has to say on *anything*, provided I have the time to read it.
I personally think that debate itself is an ultimately pointless and energy-sapping exercise.. however this is a FORUM : debate is what it's meant for!
Off-topic is the perfect place for this, and totally valid.. I think it's perfectly possible, given the thread titles, for people to choose to read or not to read If you start to stop threads like this, you might as well scrap the whole off-topic forum IMHO.
peace
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2003-09-08 12:12 ]</font>
Certainly, if I have a disagreement with someone, especially on an off-topic forum, I do not hold a grudge against them on the rest of the forum, I'm happy to help people and contribute info regardless of their beliefs/nationalities/culture/politics/musical tastes/sexuality/[insert whatever here].
However, I think it's important that we all get to know one another as well as possible. It's also a fact that spiritual matters are extremely important to many of us. In fact, the very nature of the concept holds a strong influence on how we behave. And I'm open to hear everything someone has to say on *anything*, provided I have the time to read it.
I personally think that debate itself is an ultimately pointless and energy-sapping exercise.. however this is a FORUM : debate is what it's meant for!
Off-topic is the perfect place for this, and totally valid.. I think it's perfectly possible, given the thread titles, for people to choose to read or not to read
If you start to stop threads like this, you might as well scrap the whole off-topic forum IMHO.peace
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2003-09-08 12:12 ]</font>