Alex has a problem

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:27 pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... le_rush_dc

I didn't know his last name was Zivojinovich

I've decided to change my last name to Humperdink.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:39 pm

don't drink and sing.......

Post by **hubird** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:07 pm

don't let your wife sing

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:41 pm

Retire in the country and live the rest of your life in obscurity rather than make a total idiot of yourself.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:53 pm

On 2004-01-03 19:41, braincell wrote:
Retire in the country and live the rest of your life in obscurity rather than make a total idiot of yourself.

Can't but agree with it...

I so with my own eyes Jaco Pastorious, he was standing playing in front of me by about 2 meters, and I so a very degraded person, drugs and extreme use of acohol were its way... The best bass player of the world, my idol itslef, had become an idiot indeed. I could nothing but start crying when I went out of the performance. He would go into the piano to play some chords, then whould point with his right hand to the one he wanted to play a solo, just like that... musicians were very enoyed and frustrated. He was just a bunch of good memories people had in their minds... It was one of the saddest days of my life. Finally, I went away and thought something very similar to you Brain. I hope he would have devoted himself to farm somewere, instead of finishing his live submerged in the hell of drugs and alcohol...

Post by **hubird** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:31 am

I don't get it...
wasn't he 'accidently' killed by some portiers while he was drunk?
years ago now...?

Post by **garyb** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:02 am

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:25 am

While not my cup of tea, he was amazing. I found this:

Alas, Pastorius became overwhelmed by mental problems, exacerbated by drugs and alcohol, in the mid-'80s, leading to several embarrassing public incidents (one was a violent crackup onstage at Hollywood Bowl in mid-set at the 1984 Playboy Jazz Festival). Such episodes made him a pariah in the music business and toward the end of his life, he had become a street person, reportedly sighted in drug-infested inner-city hangouts. He died in 1987 from a physical beating sustained while trying to break into the Midnight Club in Fort Lauderdale. Though almost totally forgotten at the time of his death, Pastorius was immediately canonized afterwards (Miles Davis even wrote a tune "Mr. Pastorius" in his honor) - too late for him to have received therapy or help.
— Richard S. Ginell

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 1:01 pm

What a sad experience it must have been to see Jaco like that. I'm a bassist, and Jaco is one of my musical heroes. I never got to see him play live, but I'd rather not have seen him at all than to see him in the state that Nestor witnessed.

BTW, his biography is a great read.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:34 pm

On 2004-01-04 13:01, Joxer the Mighty wrote:
What a sad experience it must have been to see Jaco like that. I'm a bassist, and Jaco is one of my musical heroes. I never got to see him play live, but I'd rather not have seen him at all than to see him in the state that Nestor witnessed.

BTW, his biography is a great read.

I would like to tell you some more about this sad night in Paris:

Jaco would come a go to a very small room, behind the a small scenario, and would inject himself constantly, he did it three times in a row. I could see it because I was very closed to him, I didn’t see the syringe itself, by unfortunately sow an elastic band in his arm, and the typical position of somebody injecting himself, and then the reactions and words…

I was one of the first to arrive in place to the concert, and so could get one of the closest places. I wanted to get as close as possible to the best bass player in the world, obviously, I wanted to see it, to enjoy, to learn, to be in front of my “master” for years. But I didn’t expect such a frantic behaviour.

Every time he went into this small room, he would say things like: “hoooo maaaan, hoooo”, and would get out of there in a quite transformed mood… It was difficult to hear what he said, cos people would speak loud and some jazz music was all the time playing during the brakes, nevertheless, I would pay absolute attention the my master. I have to say I hate drugs in general, and I am absolutely against any hard drugs, so it was a very strong impression to witness he was injecting himself to a dramatic extent, being one of the best musicians an composers of my life, Jaco Pastorius!!! Too sad.

He started playing alone and would not pick up what the other musicians would be doing. He would suddenly shut loud for everybody to stop playing, giving the commandment for one of the musicians to make a solo, just like that… Musicians were very annoyed and would clearly show it to the public with their body language.

Jaco would suddenly start doing some solos playing in such a tough and rude way, that he was more like a bad trash style bass player… It was absurd. Some times his geniality would show and some extraordinary musical phrases would come and go, but nothing else… he was so vulgar, so dense… I couldn’t believe it!

Then, he left his bass and went to the piano pushing the pianist out of his place, asked screaming loudly and badly to the musicians to go away… and they would all the time do exactly what Jaco would say… Nobody was there to see them in fact, but Jaco… I guess those musicians, even if they were absolutely excellent ones, were nobody without Jaco to the eyes of people… but well… Jaco was no longer… he had disappeared from earth… drugs and too much alcohol have already killed him mentally, before he was killed physically

Well, Jaco started to play the piano by himself, some broken chords, he started very jazzy and then went to play some mayor chords, without any sense… he would play a chord and would stare at people with different moods… every chord was played for about 30 seconds, so very long… it was all too strange and extremely depressing. Everybody would feel it… many there were great jazz musicians, known in the jazz world, and everybody would feel exactly the same… you could feel an awfully sad ambience going on. It was the end of a great.

I hate drugs, I hate alcoholism, sensitive people like Jaco, like possible you people, should be very careful with those substances. They can make you feel well for a while, they can pull you out of the pain you are in, cos you have problems, but your dignity is gong down, down, down…

Before taking drugs or drinking too much, I think we should think in other alternatives to go away from pain, or getting into fantastic worlds, because the end of it is, and it will be forever, your absolute failure…

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:08 pm

Nestor, your detailed account has made the story of Jaco even sadder for me. His biography is horrific enough, but to hear your account of him shooting up is, well...it's just depressing. I can only imagine the heartbreak you felt at seeing your hero in such a state of decay. Well, looking at the bright side of things, let us remember Jaco at his prime. Those incredible moments with Weather Report and and as a sideman for other projects. And of course, his solo work.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:15 pm

This is what I do, I try to keep the best memory... and he left us nevertheless, lost of incredible things... I think he was not only a prolific, extraordinary bass player, but a fantastic composer as well. People that have not yet leasted to his work as a composer, should get at it, with time, it desevers a slow study.

He was too sensitive I guess, and people like this suffer far too much.

I have not read his biobraphy tho, could you please give me the coordinates to have a look a it? Cheers.

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:21 am

hi! Nestor, I think you've already took a look at this, anyway:
http://www.jacopastorius.com

(sorry, few time to enter this sensible topic, now)

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:51 am

krizrox wrote:

I didn't know his last name was Zivojinovich

Me neither! Sounds like a lot of fuss might have been avoided if the house band had had a sense of humour, occasion and romance and let the guy sing a little...it was NYE after all!

From other articles I've had a look at, seems like they used a taser on him and his son to subdue him!

...and others indicate that Alex spat at a police officer. Spat blood that is, after they broke his nose.

edit: is that ketchup on your shirt, sir?
http://www.nbc-2.com/News/stories/04020 ... on-2.shtml

I've decided to change my last name to Humperdink.

Englebert had a complete rhythmectomy, didn't he?

Royston

p.s. did you get the Rio DVD yet?

[ This Message was edited by: Counterparts on 2004-01-05 12:00 ]

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:11 pm

The biography I read is by Bill Mikowski who knew Jaco personally.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books

Looks like it's out of print though, and used copies are expensive.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:15 pm

It strikes me as quite funny that this thread was supposed to be about forgetable Alex Lifeson.

_________________
Paul R. Martin - Are we listening?

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2004-01-05 13:15 ]

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:09 pm

On 2004-01-05 10:51, Counterparts wrote:

p.s. did you get the Rio DVD yet?

[ This Message was edited by: Counterparts on 2004-01-05 12:00 ]

No not yet and it's killing me

I've seen the DVD in stores over the Christmas holiday as I was shopping. A friend got it and raves about it. I'll pick it up shortly.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:05 pm

Something is horribly wrong when a BIO does not cover the tragic ugliness. Omissions are like lies.

On 2004-01-05 10:21, zezappa wrote:
hi! Nestor, I think you've already took a look at this, anyway:
http://www.jacopastorius.com

(sorry, few time to enter this sensible topic, now)

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:53 am

[quote]
On 2004-01-05 23:05, braincell wrote:
Something is horribly wrong when a BIO does not cover the tragic ugliness. Omissions are like lies.

???

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:05 pm

I consider http://www.jacopastorius.com to be a tribute page celebrating his work as a *musician*. I see nothing wrong with his bio there not including the sordid details of his drug/alcohol problem.