I'm in the process of converting my entire cd collection to mp3's. (See you next year!8^)
But I'm having trouble deciding what player/jukebox to use for playback/management...
I have already eliminated MediaPlayer and WinAmp because of their user interface.
I like RealOne Player and iTunes, but both can't play tracks "back to back". There's a small dropout between tracks, which is quite annoing when listening to an "album".
So does anyone know / use a better solution ???
Kim.
.mp3 players ?
Personally I find winamp fine for all my needs as it uses less than 12Mb usually and on my old p3-450 uses less than 2% cpu. Now extrapolate that up to a modern system.
3.x was a real dog but they have updated the 2.x engine to be Winamp 5 now, which includes support for all the fancy 3.x skins, cd ripping & burning etc (of which I do none in winamp actually). Winamp also uses the LAME codecs exclusively since 2.9x, which is a very good thing (fraunhofer came out with inflated pricing and many people believe LAME to be superior anyway).
I use it as a player only, with the main window, then the eq then the playlist stacked side by side and then each collapses and it docks at the top of my screen between the left and right hand upper frame controls like this:
Open:
http://www.kief.net/studio/Winamp1.jpg
Minimized:
http://www.kief.net/studio/Winamp2.jpg
There are a lot of other alternative players on the market like Musicmatch, Sonique etc, I'm sure that our planetz users can name many.
However, while some mp3 players don't buffer the next track until the current one is finished (resulting in an audible skip), even with players that do prebuffer you'll receieve a glitch in standard playback. Unfortunately cd-frames don't often line up with mp3 frames (neither are 'wav' data), so even with a player able to prebuffer the next track the only way to avoid the 'glitch' between 2 separate tracks is to do a short 'crossfade' between the tracks. Sonique, Winamp etc all do this, but this approach has its drawbacks too, especially with a continuous beat between both tracks. Unfortunately the only real solution to this is to create a single mp3 file from the cd and a separate file with a .cue extension that gives track titles and times to allow track indexing as on a cd. This is also the ONLY way to rip a continuous mix cd and still be able to burn it back to a continous mix with no skips on the new cd (because it allows the burner to quantize to cd frames still).
A .cue file is actually just a text file and can be created by hand, but many applications (such as Nero) are able to rip to a single mp3 and create the .cue file for you.
While that may seem overly anal and a lot of work, I've been encoding mp3's out of my cd & vinyl collection since 1995 and its really the best way to archive for long term usage and storage.
Incidentally if you do decide to go with iTunes (which only really makes sense on windows if you want to use the shop as I feel its VERY bloated) then beware that itunes uses AAC as its native audio codec and not mp3 when it rips, although its quite capable of mp3 playback.
3.x was a real dog but they have updated the 2.x engine to be Winamp 5 now, which includes support for all the fancy 3.x skins, cd ripping & burning etc (of which I do none in winamp actually). Winamp also uses the LAME codecs exclusively since 2.9x, which is a very good thing (fraunhofer came out with inflated pricing and many people believe LAME to be superior anyway).
I use it as a player only, with the main window, then the eq then the playlist stacked side by side and then each collapses and it docks at the top of my screen between the left and right hand upper frame controls like this:
Open:
http://www.kief.net/studio/Winamp1.jpg
Minimized:
http://www.kief.net/studio/Winamp2.jpg
There are a lot of other alternative players on the market like Musicmatch, Sonique etc, I'm sure that our planetz users can name many.
However, while some mp3 players don't buffer the next track until the current one is finished (resulting in an audible skip), even with players that do prebuffer you'll receieve a glitch in standard playback. Unfortunately cd-frames don't often line up with mp3 frames (neither are 'wav' data), so even with a player able to prebuffer the next track the only way to avoid the 'glitch' between 2 separate tracks is to do a short 'crossfade' between the tracks. Sonique, Winamp etc all do this, but this approach has its drawbacks too, especially with a continuous beat between both tracks. Unfortunately the only real solution to this is to create a single mp3 file from the cd and a separate file with a .cue extension that gives track titles and times to allow track indexing as on a cd. This is also the ONLY way to rip a continuous mix cd and still be able to burn it back to a continous mix with no skips on the new cd (because it allows the burner to quantize to cd frames still).
A .cue file is actually just a text file and can be created by hand, but many applications (such as Nero) are able to rip to a single mp3 and create the .cue file for you.
While that may seem overly anal and a lot of work, I've been encoding mp3's out of my cd & vinyl collection since 1995 and its really the best way to archive for long term usage and storage.
Incidentally if you do decide to go with iTunes (which only really makes sense on windows if you want to use the shop as I feel its VERY bloated) then beware that itunes uses AAC as its native audio codec and not mp3 when it rips, although its quite capable of mp3 playback.
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next to nothing
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hey danish dude.
i myself like musicmatch jukebox, i find it easy to both rip and manage with this one.
i also find its gui rather nice.
DL a free trial at http://www.musicmatch.com/
BTW, have a nice trip to wherever u r going
i myself like musicmatch jukebox, i find it easy to both rip and manage with this one.
i also find its gui rather nice.
DL a free trial at http://www.musicmatch.com/
BTW, have a nice trip to wherever u r going
at0mic, a .cue file is actually a separate textfile with a list of index points and a proper header. You can actually hand-write one if necessary, although there are tools to extract that information from a cd's TOC. There is also a winamp plugin to allow playback of .cue files with the mp3 so that you can still seek within the single mp3 file as if it were multiple tracks. Also, if this is too difficult winamp (and most other players) *will* prebuffer and just crossfade between mp3's but as I said this can be less than ideal (especially with dj mixes).
In winamp use the 'directsound' output module, choose to 'configure' it and check the 'Buffering' and the "Fading" tabs. Winamp used to be set up to do this by default but many people in the forums didn't like it. I believe Sonique still does automatic crossfades, not sure about Musicmatch.
In winamp use the 'directsound' output module, choose to 'configure' it and check the 'Buffering' and the "Fading" tabs. Winamp used to be set up to do this by default but many people in the forums didn't like it. I believe Sonique still does automatic crossfades, not sure about Musicmatch.
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John Cooper
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Having just been through this same massive excercise, done tons of research, and had several false starts, let me summarize my findings for you:
First, buy a big hard disk and rip your cd's to <a href="http://flac.sourceforge.net">FLAC</a>. It's completely lossless and has about 2:1 compression ratio. I bought a hitachi 200gb disk for $99 (after rebate), and managed to fit most of my 700 cd's on it - i guess a lot of EP's lowers the average length of a cd!
Rip to FLAC using <a href="http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/">EAC (exact audio copy)</a> in secure mode. Setup guide <a href="http://users.pandora.be/satcp/cd2mp3-en.htm">here</a>. Be wary of ripping from musicmatch, etc, as they rip in "burst" mode, with no error correction.
So, now you have an exact archive of your cd collection, and won't have to re-rip should you choose to change encoding formats later. (I originally was ripping straight to vorbis, and then realized my error after about 100 cd's and started over!!)
Next, choose your codec. For mp3, use <a href="http://lame.sourceforge.net">LAME</a> 3.90.3 (not fraunhoffer or xing, as found in musicmatch or real). For <a href="http://www.vorbis.com">vorbis</a>, use Garf's tuned gt3b1. Download binaries, and get advice on recommended settings at <a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/">hydrogenaudio.org</a>. I used ogg vorbis gt3b1, at quality 5, and am very impressed.
If you're having trouble choosing a codec or a bitrate, do some ear training, and test yourself using a blind A/B tool to see if you can hear the differences-- <a href="http://www.pcabx.com">pcabx</a>. In my listening tests, ogg vorbis won over mp3 every time (until you get to very high bitrates).
Next, use a tool like <a href="http://www.foobar2000.org">foobar2000</a> to encode your collection of FLAC's, all at once, to your desired format.
Then, use foobar2000 to <a href="http://www.replaygain.org/">replaygain</a> your whole encoded collection (in foobar, select all your tracks, and then use replaygain "selection as multiple albums"). This keeps playback volume relatively consistent on players that support it. (DO NOT normalize during rip/encode- replaygain is totally lossless).
Last, and the only thing you were really asking advice for, choose a jukebox to playback.
For the road, I bought a <a href="http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_ ... at=56">rio karma</a> which plays mp3/flac/vorbis/wma, plays totally gapless, has excellent battery life, is tiny, way cheaper than ipod, and has a great <a href="http://www.riovolution.com">online community</a> with total developer involvement, regular firmware upgrades, etc.
For playback on your PC, I'm currently using <a href="www.winamp.com">winamp 5.01</a>, but would prefer something else with better library management. <a href="http://www.musicmatch.com">Musicmatch</a> is better in that regard, but doesn't do ogg vorbis.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
-John
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: John Cooper on 2004-10-17 13:36 ]</font>
First, buy a big hard disk and rip your cd's to <a href="http://flac.sourceforge.net">FLAC</a>. It's completely lossless and has about 2:1 compression ratio. I bought a hitachi 200gb disk for $99 (after rebate), and managed to fit most of my 700 cd's on it - i guess a lot of EP's lowers the average length of a cd!
Rip to FLAC using <a href="http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/">EAC (exact audio copy)</a> in secure mode. Setup guide <a href="http://users.pandora.be/satcp/cd2mp3-en.htm">here</a>. Be wary of ripping from musicmatch, etc, as they rip in "burst" mode, with no error correction.
So, now you have an exact archive of your cd collection, and won't have to re-rip should you choose to change encoding formats later. (I originally was ripping straight to vorbis, and then realized my error after about 100 cd's and started over!!)
Next, choose your codec. For mp3, use <a href="http://lame.sourceforge.net">LAME</a> 3.90.3 (not fraunhoffer or xing, as found in musicmatch or real). For <a href="http://www.vorbis.com">vorbis</a>, use Garf's tuned gt3b1. Download binaries, and get advice on recommended settings at <a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/">hydrogenaudio.org</a>. I used ogg vorbis gt3b1, at quality 5, and am very impressed.
If you're having trouble choosing a codec or a bitrate, do some ear training, and test yourself using a blind A/B tool to see if you can hear the differences-- <a href="http://www.pcabx.com">pcabx</a>. In my listening tests, ogg vorbis won over mp3 every time (until you get to very high bitrates).
Next, use a tool like <a href="http://www.foobar2000.org">foobar2000</a> to encode your collection of FLAC's, all at once, to your desired format.
Then, use foobar2000 to <a href="http://www.replaygain.org/">replaygain</a> your whole encoded collection (in foobar, select all your tracks, and then use replaygain "selection as multiple albums"). This keeps playback volume relatively consistent on players that support it. (DO NOT normalize during rip/encode- replaygain is totally lossless).
Last, and the only thing you were really asking advice for, choose a jukebox to playback.
For the road, I bought a <a href="http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_ ... at=56">rio karma</a> which plays mp3/flac/vorbis/wma, plays totally gapless, has excellent battery life, is tiny, way cheaper than ipod, and has a great <a href="http://www.riovolution.com">online community</a> with total developer involvement, regular firmware upgrades, etc.
For playback on your PC, I'm currently using <a href="www.winamp.com">winamp 5.01</a>, but would prefer something else with better library management. <a href="http://www.musicmatch.com">Musicmatch</a> is better in that regard, but doesn't do ogg vorbis.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
-John
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: John Cooper on 2004-10-17 13:36 ]</font>
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John Cooper
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Also, since you were concerned about gapless playback, here's a great discussion:
http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/
Karma is one of the only players out there that does truly gapless playback. Listen to the 2nd half of abbey road on the Karma, and it's perfect.
-John
http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/
Karma is one of the only players out there that does truly gapless playback. Listen to the 2nd half of abbey road on the Karma, and it's perfect.
-John
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Nestor
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Wow John, excellent information... It must have taken you a lot of time to get all this points clear and concisely changed together. Thanks very much.
If you have not read it yet, it is worth a complete reading for those into Multimedia like me, for instance, as well as for those willing to store their CDs as John did, and there is planfy of information for those willing to understand better the working of MP3 and how getting their best posible quality.
If you have not read it yet, it is worth a complete reading for those into Multimedia like me, for instance, as well as for those willing to store their CDs as John did, and there is planfy of information for those willing to understand better the working of MP3 and how getting their best posible quality.
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Counterparts
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Bath, England
)
Excellent tutorial, John! I've been ripping some of my CD's using your tips and mixes finally play without a glitch
First I convert to FLAC, ReplayGain them using Foobar and then use a batch file to convert folders contents to mp3 files, it looks something like:
@ECHO OFF
FOR %%I IN (*.flac) DO "C:Program FilesFLACflac.exe" --decode --stdout "%%~fI" | "C:Program FilesExact Audio Copylame3.96b1lame.exe" --alt-preset standard - "%%~dpnI.mp3"
This will convert flac files there to .mp3 without converting to .wav first. Still fiddling with the lame extensions...
Maybe I didnt get all of it yet, but at least now there's a way for me to listen to mp3's of a mix in one go...
Great tips, John, once again... Thanks!
_________________
More has been done with less.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: at0mic on 2004-05-02 15:01 ]</font>
First I convert to FLAC, ReplayGain them using Foobar and then use a batch file to convert folders contents to mp3 files, it looks something like:
@ECHO OFF
FOR %%I IN (*.flac) DO "C:Program FilesFLACflac.exe" --decode --stdout "%%~fI" | "C:Program FilesExact Audio Copylame3.96b1lame.exe" --alt-preset standard - "%%~dpnI.mp3"
This will convert flac files there to .mp3 without converting to .wav first. Still fiddling with the lame extensions...
Maybe I didnt get all of it yet, but at least now there's a way for me to listen to mp3's of a mix in one go...
Great tips, John, once again... Thanks!
_________________
More has been done with less.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: at0mic on 2004-05-02 15:01 ]</font>
I love the multiple playlists in Foobar, that proggie has some real neat features. It's Album List, together with http://www.bluecowmedia.com/MOOsic , helped a big lot to name and tag all the files!
more has been done with less
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
Wow, that Rio Karma looks like something worth to invest in.
John, can you tell me if its possible to store other kinds of data on it, and not just audio files? Like for example movie files or what have you, to use it like any other portable harddrive.
Cant find any info about that on their site.
John, can you tell me if its possible to store other kinds of data on it, and not just audio files? Like for example movie files or what have you, to use it like any other portable harddrive.
Cant find any info about that on their site.
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.
/Mahatma Gandhi
/Mahatma Gandhi
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John Cooper
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The Karma comes with a program called RioTaxi that lets you do this. I've never tried it, as my karma is totally packed with music files. I've read on the riovolution.com forums that an upcoming firware upgrade will remove the need for the RioTaxi, and allow you to directly transfer non-music files to the karma.On 2004-05-02 15:20, Nisse wrote:
Wow, that Rio Karma looks like something worth to invest in.
John, can you tell me if its possible to store other kinds of data on it, and not just audio files? Like for example movie files or what have you, to use it like any other portable harddrive.
Cheers,
-John