How to make Vectron sound (almost) like MiniMax

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:38 pm

CWA was saying how cool Vectron is because of its "charming" aliasing and jittering, but I don't agree. So when I got Vectron alongside MiniMax, I wasn't very impressed. Until one day when I decided to check it out at 96KHz. BOOM! It suddenly sounded AMAZING!!! It sounded like the wavetable equivalent of MiniMax. There was only a tiny amount of aliasing in the very top notes, hardly noticable. Crystal-clear otherwise.

Of course, 96K takes up tons of DSP and is unstable when you use a large number of voices. So how do you integrate this amazing wavetable synth into your music projects?

First of all, make double sets of presets that you plan to use. A few settings must be changed to make the presets sound alike at 96K and 44.1K -- filter cutoff and vector envelope speed. Switch back and forth between sampling rates continually to make sure the 44.1 presets and the 96 presets match.

Then create your music at 44.1. It doesn't matter if the high-end is slightly irritating; this will be fixed in the final output.

To record the instruments, create a new project in your MIDI/audio sequencer, set it to 96. Copy out your Vectron MIDI lines, making sure meter/key and tempo changes are in tact, into your new project. Create a new SFP project and load in the Vectron preset, set it to 96 and load up your specialized 96K preset.

Then record the audio back into your sequencer, starting a full measure ahead so that you'll know exactly where to import the audio back into the original project later on. Export the recorded audio to a temp directory.

Now you have a couple of options. If your sequencer supports automatic sample-rate conversion, such as Sonar 3.1 (which uses a high-quality algorithm), simply import the audio back into your project. If you can't do that, try finding an external program that will do it for you -- such as Wavelab (?). If the program is properly made, it should introduce no additional aliasing and should sound every bit as good as the 96k file.

Import the file and enjoy your sparkling wavetables!!

Shayne

8-Bit · Post by **8-Bit** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:07 am

Uhh... Thats boring, and looks like a waste of time.

you can make your stuff sound good in 44.1, and it can also sound good in 96k.

personally, I make my songs sound good overall, regardless of sampling rate, because the 'sound' not the resolution, will have the ultimate impact on the listener.

So many people are such audiophiliacs that they lose touch with music production and get into sound fascism. I don't care what you do, but for me, 44.1khz or 96khz can both be made to sound great.

Cheers,
8

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:28 am

Sure both can be made to sound great, but oversampling in the oscs/filter (and eq's) has such a beneficial effect on sound that many plugins (dsp and native) do it these days. For example, Minimax's filter being oversampled is part of the reason it sounds so good at 44.1/48khz and I believe the reason it can't be used at 96khz. All he is doing is manually oversampling as part of the production process. Might be too anal for some but not for others...difference in workflow tastes?

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:55 am

Thanks Shayne

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:22 am

There's lots of presets to convert though - boring job for someone, how's about it Shayne?

Mr A

PS. i quite like the aliasing on Vectron so i'm sticking to 44.1

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-03-03 08:23 ]</font>

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:56 am

It's got nothing to do with special hearing, that 96kHz improvement. Try some synths at that frequency and notice the difference. My mom can hear that, I don't think we'd need to do a blind A/B test

After all the effort of making some superb synth, its funny how a higher samplerate can make it suddenly sound even better again - without any effort, effects nor tweaking

You don't need special gifts for that, once again, eh.

Also, I find it a weird comparison between Minimax and Vectron, which make sounds with totally different synthesis techniques.

My 2 cents,

at0m.

8-Bit · Post by **8-Bit** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:35 am

On 2005-03-04 00:56, at0m|c wrote:
It's got nothing to do with special hearing, that 96kHz improvement. Try some synths at that frequency and notice the difference. My mom can hear that, I don't think we'd need to do a blind A/B test

After all the effort of making some superb synth, its funny how a higher samplerate can make it suddenly sound even better again - without any effort, effects nor tweaking You don't need special gifts for that, once again, eh.

Also, I find it a weird comparison between Minimax and Vectron, which make sounds with totally different synthesis techniques.

My 2 cents,

at0m.

Yeh.. arent those synths completely different? Wtf? Also, I know that 96khz freq's will pull in that extra clarity and brightness in the top end. I enjoyed it up until I realized how limited my system became as a result to it. So what would you *really* get out of this? You could bounce it down to audio at 96khz, then resample to 44.1khz?

Like I said before, maybe even 'mothers' can hear the difference, but its nothing, in my opinion, to toil over. But, people need to fill their day. Do with yours as you feel fit.

Rock,
8

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:56 am

Don't worry, I will

8bit, didn't you also say that all synths sound the same cos they are synths?

8-Bit · Post by **8-Bit** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:02 am

About the synths sounding the same, I say that about many synths because they have such similar aspects, 2 OSC, 1 or 2 LFO, a filter, including ADSR and amp including ADSR. Thats all very standard stuff, and as a result, synths sound sooo retardedly the same. When I was talking about that on IRC, I was referring to the numerous synths out there that follow the same design settings as others, and as a result, have such similar capablities/sounds.

Anyway, this topic is dead. I'm not wasting my time piddly farting around trying to get my mom to notice anything.

Later,
8

Post by **hubird** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:11 am

big boy...

masta · Post by **masta** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:59 pm

thanks Shayne!
best tip so far...feels like i got a new synt. so much more presence. what an impact on the vectron. this synth needs 96khz. to bad i only have 6 dsp's

i wonder if its possible to record in 44khz (while in 96khz mode) with v-dat, and then switch back to 44khz in scope. can vdat resample a 96khz file to 44khz realtime?

thx

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:51 pm

Brother Man Shayne,
I couldn't agree w/ you more. The aliasing in Vectron is why I want to sample a couple of presets I made. The Bluewave has a much cleaner sound IMHO,i.e.lots of shine as we say at the big gigs. But Vectron sounds like my old Ensoniq Mirage compared to BlueWave. But Vectron has so much potential w/ the imported wave section. I will delve into this more deeply as James Bond would say. Your timely comment was proof that my ears are hearing false beats. I'm sure that the programmers knew this as most presets are bathed in FX.

BTW FM WAS FAT,

_________________
Jimmy V.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-03-12 09:05 ]</font>

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:44 am

On 2005-03-04 00:56, at0m wrote:
It's got nothing to do with special hearing, that 96kHz improvement. Try some synths at that frequency and notice the difference. My mom can hear that,
at0m.

Women are more sensitive to high frequencies so she would hear the difference. Good test.

Zer · Post by **Zer** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:17 am

when in bed I´d like to concentrate on other things, than music.

Post by **hubird** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:58 pm

frequency?

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:39 pm

sensitivity?

Janni · Post by **Janni** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:51 am

In bed with your mother?
only joking ...
Jan