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well that certainly puts it all in perspective......guess I should think myself pretty damn lucky really.

Thanks - sometimes it is good to be informed and reminded.

how sad!

that's why I reject all space programs, whatever interesting they are.
Waste of mony, compared to the basic needs of so many people.

That's a thorny one.

We could spend all our energy fixing the earth and the ecology, balancing ourselves with the environment only to be smashed to bits by some cosmic accident that wipes the planet's slate clean.

Or we could use the planet silly in an attempt to get the hell of here only to find out we've trashed the only habitable place in the neighborhood (or perhaps all the other habitable places are already inhabited and don't have room for us).

Question is, who's the happiest?

On 2004-05-11 04:52, Immanuel wrote:
Thanks - sometimes it is good to be informed and reminded.

Yeah! And look, they used a new way of simplifing comparison. Insted of telling us that 5% have the capital they say 5 persons. It's simplier for us to see and feel it.

Robust space programs represent and magnify all that is good and noble in humanity. They are also a tiny investment in the long-term future of the species.

Tiny investment!?

...curiosity killed the cat...

On 2004-05-25 17:43, at0m|c wrote:
Tiny investment!?

As former NASA chief Dan Goldin noted, Americans spend more money buying cornchips than the entire budget of NASA...

lame
a gouvernment is supposed to find rational solutions for 'political' issues, a citizen not.
If he wants to live from bigmacs no one will complain

So Hubird, I suppose you also object to all the "space money" that's being spent on satellite imaging and monitoring of oceans, forests, surface temperatures etc ?

This is, as you'd know, the data which has confirmed the reality of global warming and climate change.

Guess which company has the world's largest investment in detailed satellite imaging of the planet?

That's right - MacDonalds.

They use this enormous database of information to determine the 'perfect location(s)' for new "restaurants".

Oopsy - they made a massive loss last year, hence their increasingly desperate "I'm loving it" advertising campaign. I seriously doubt that they're fooling anybody, though.

Royston

On 2004-05-25 23:06, Spirit wrote:
So Hubird, I suppose you also object to all the "space money" that's being spent on satellite imaging and monitoring of oceans, forests, surface temperatures etc ?

This is, as you'd know, the data which has confirmed the reality of global warming and climate change.

Hi Spirit, still alive?
Sure, you can nail me with that one.
At the same time, those satellite technics serve the big fishing companies which know exactly where to fish...leading to extremely fast exhausting of fishing grounds all over the world.
But what about the new budgets created to prepare a go to Mars?
Rational considerations would lead to a totally different view on how to spend the space budget in the world.
If people die from hunger or lack of penicilline you don't build a hitech operation room in their village, that's how I see it


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-05-26 10:28 ]</font>

I think you'll find it's more sonar and radar equipped boats doing the damage, combined with a lack of proper regulation on catch size, but that's really just "splitting hairs" as they say (well, as they here anyway).

In broad terms though I support Mars missions and space activities because of many reasons...

1) For a start the combined space budgets are not enough to make a huge impact on the world's big problems. If you want to start reallocating money then military budgets is where the big cash sums will be found.

2) I believe the saying "man does not live by bread alone". Humanity needs something more than the little details and immediate rational thinking of an accountant. We need inspiration and hope and a grand vision - space does this.

3) Space helps define the psyche and the place of humans in the cosmos. Think of Stonehenge and other ancient celestial monuments. They represented a huge investment of resources that might have been better spent on wooden forts, or extra feilds of maize, but instead....

4) Space projects are like pure science research and have many spin-offs. The planetary science and climate observation is just one obvious benefit. Satellite communications is another. By using donated bandwidth on space-based satellites many poor nations can pass by the expensive installation of copper networks.

5) The quest for life in space, and the study of non-Earth planetary geology migth help us better understand the risks and challenges of our world. And if we did discover life elsewhere, no matter how primitive, this would have profound religious implications. It may even help the spiritual development of our entire species.

So, it's not just a case of spending money on "flags and footprints", that's just the PR end.

Space exploration is a deeply practical and useful science as well as a noble and profound project for every person on the planet.

I agree with all points, but why do I still have that hidden shamefeeling back in my mind?

I understand you and I agree with you Spirit...

But...Hubird... I "feel" you!