Me$$iah's NO INSULTS religion thread

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:12 am

OK

Hi to eveyone, I asked about this and there was some interest. So here goes

The first thing I want to say is that this here thread is to be absolutly insult free. I mean Im here to learn and maybe educate, and am intersted in theology not rounds of playground 'my nob is bigger than yours' and 'idiot idiot idiot'
...did...didnt...did...didnt....etc.
And no threats of anyone going to any type of hell or watever, as this doesnt further the debate. it just leads straight to the same scchool yard

I can get that at home from my family..lol

And no threats of anyone going to any type of hell or watever, as this doesnt further the debate. it just leads straight to the same scchool yard

so I gues the first thing I want to ask you all is who here is religious and to which faith. And dont just say I beleive in god, be more specific. If your a christian, then what denomination. If your an athiest are you strong in that or weak, are you agnostic?

Im also intersted in why you believe. Did you grow up in the faith, did you convert to. Are/were your parents of the same religion?

I have many questions...But to begin just what religion are you.

Me I call myself a Satanist. I do this because I dont have any belief in an creator being. The only god that I need is that which I find inside myself. I am God. Thus my choice of name on the forum. I surely know the truth. From my understanding of theology to date, the term sataninst best summs this up this view, so I use that in simple description.
Its also a great way to get into religious debates.hehe.
Some say Im an athiest, I disagree, but then Im argumentative like that.
I have a very strong belief in science, and love M-Theory...even tho it gets a little too close to religion for comfort. I also believe in evolution.

recap:-

Me$$iah Satanist I am God

over to you

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:40 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis

nuff said

Post by **hubird** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:16 pm

......... 'Satanist? Oh my god...'

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:32 pm

Well i don't think you can be a Satanist without believing in God really, and the Christian God at that. From what i understand Satan is a fairly recent invention - a way for Christians to explain the bad stuff that goes on in the world. Check the Old testament - it's God that brings the wrath and floods etc. as well as the good stuff. In the New Testament the Christian God cannot be seen to be doing evil as He's all about love and peace, so someone needs to take the rap. Enter Old Nick as scapegoat. Of course he's been around a lot longer in other guises and appears in all sorts of religions over the centuries, but i think the modern form he takes as the opposite of God is a Christian/New Testament invention.

Me? i would probably call myself an Atheist, except i hate labels. Maybe Humanist would be closer but that sounds a bit too hippy to me.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-12-29 15:39 ]

H-Rave · Post by **H-Rave** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:36 pm

Anybody who thinks about theology and whatever religion wastes valuable time,when they could be doing something about it,I think in general faith,religion,whatever you want to call it has tried to take credit for alot of good which has already been done in the world.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:42 pm

For what it's worth, personally I believe in 'God' - a higher force which is not necessarily a man in a white robe with a long beard... Divinity is an infinitely complex concept which can be everything and anything at the same time. We create the concept of God in our minds as it is easier for our pretty primitive brains to comprehend.

Religions are not the same as the concept of divinity. IMHO you find your belief in your own way... it can't be forced into you.

I think religions are not inherently bad but often because of their cultural functions, they are often abused/subverted by people who crave power.

Religion is not the only thing to be abused like this - right now in the world the concept of democracy is being abused in the same way. The belief in democracy is just as much a blind and fear-based faith as the state-sponsored Christianity of the past, and just as back then, there are sickening crimes committed in its name. In years to come people are going to look back at our age and spit on democracy in much the same way as religion is spat upon now (i.e. the same as the "religion is the cause of all wars" argument).

I'm not trying to start a pro/anti-democracy sub-thread here.... it's just an example I used to point out that the 'religion is the cause of all evil' argument is flawed... it's people that kill other people, nothing else.

peace

BTW Messiah - I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that you're a satanist if you believe that there is a spark of something beyond flesh/blood/tissue inside you. In fact this is what most positively-religious people I know believe (yes, I would always describe satanism as negative... belief in/identification with dark forces can only lead to negative things).

As I was saying earlier, there are a lot of perspectives on how divinity manifests itself in our physical dimension. A dude with a white beard and white robe is just one of these perspectives... hinduism (of which I would describe myself a member) has many thousands more perspectives. Our brains are primitive and cannot comprehend infinitely huge and complex concepts (outside meditative states).. this is what leads to the many different 'beliefs' around the world.

[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-12-29 15:59 ]

H-Rave · Post by **H-Rave** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:56 pm

It Just would seem rather silly to ask myself,why am I here what is my purpose,when .1 Nobody's going to answer me,and 2.I could be playing the guitar,seeing as it's particularly hard to contemplate universal concepts and fret a Dm9 at the same time,and that's without talking about reading this thread.

[ This Message was edited by: H-Rave on 2005-12-29 15:58 ]

[ This Message was edited by: H-Rave on 2005-12-29 16:00 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:00 pm

H-rave - there's nothing wrong with that... just be true to yourself and walk your path - you cannot be forced to believe anything.

H-Rave · Post by **H-Rave** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:10 pm

I would However like to say to Messiah,that If you believe yourself to be satanist,Though not Evil,you Either 1.you don't know what you're talking about,2.you don't have your own beliefs,because when you talk about satanism It's a christian concept,though not your own,or 3. you are in fact evil,but call yourself Messiah.Whatever it is I don't understand it.
p.s Gates of Babylon,Rainbow has just come on my playlist,Divine intervention or just coincidence.

[ This Message was edited by: H-Rave on 2005-12-29 16:17 ]

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:08 pm

Me$$iah's you say you are Satanist,but isn't he guy who fell out with God?

You say you don't believe in a Creator so how do you make reason of anything seeing that all science creates and forms things.E.g. engines,drugs,buildings are all creations of some kind.

I just get annoyed when being attacked for saying merry Christmas.Everyone goes on about this Militant Roman period of time where Christianity was the most talked about and growing mode(since the time of Jesus of course)and was used to control people by the state of course.
Do you honestly think that cutting of a childs testicles to please the Pope is a truly religous action?If I blow someone up in the sake of a religion does that mean the religion is to blame?

Christians have fought eachother in Europe for hundreds of years but this is due to difference in race economics etc and other Human frailties.

This is why I say that anyone who talks down on religion doesn't know what he is talking about.Religion(again!)is synonymous with civilisation.
What do I mean by that.Well there was a time where we use to sacrifice our children have sex with them,kill viciously so we created a system where we could respect our elders help the weak etc.Call it what you like but it's all religion/civilisation.

If you move away from the religous side of the mind and move to the materialistic side which only believes in money you will create a society which will decline very rapidly and move to utilitarianism which makes society cynical,and this will turn us back into our primitive state.Of course you can't impose religion like anything else but to teach its importance is imperative.Counciling,welfare,care are just all names that come from religious beliefs.

Why is it that all these minorities attack the majority complaining about their treatment when they impose the same counteractions.I don't get it.

My faith is Greek Orthodox and has had its ups and downs even from Catholicism and has suffered the ills of the Western church,wrongly so,by Muslim world.
Does this mean I have to hate a Jew,Muslim,non believer etc? No it just states my belief system,and in studying it all we aint much different and all end up in the same place.Where we go after I haven't got experience of,because it only happens once.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:24 pm

I live in Las Vegas, which is new day Sodom.I see good and evil every day,one hand washes the other. I try to reach out to all faiths,especially when I gamble. I pray to Muhammed,Buddah,Jesus,Allah,Zues, whoever will answer.Don't want to take any chances. Who knows Satan might have answered a couple of times, seems like he has alot of influence here. If he's the one who gave me that 5000 USD royal, then he's cool by me. At any rate I'm still waiting for a verbal response, or a burning bush but to no avail. Guess I'll keep reading my new books about Ishtar in the Mahabharata. Their Gods flew in airborn vehicles ( Vimanas ).Very interesting reading. I just wish I could write like those guys, what an imagination they had 5000 years ago.Bet if they had a couple of Scope Pro's back then they would have had given DSP programmmers from Creamware a run for their money.

Be Fruitful And Multiply,

Jimmy V.

[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2005-12-29 17:26 ]

[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2005-12-29 18:24 ]

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:43 pm

I just get annoyed when being attacked for saying merry Christmas.Everyone goes on

I'm just wondering, were you really attacked (physically or verbally) for saying Merry Christmas? Does that really happen? I hear a lot of people claiming it happens and I haven't seen a single case of it personally. I'm not being facetious or sarcastic, just wondering. Have any anecdotes you can share?

I agree with much of what you say here. There's a reason why colleges and universities, centres of learning, were until recently, run by religious people of different stripes. It may be difficult to logically define moral truths, but we all act like we believe in them in real-life situations anyways, whether we can agree on the fine details or not.

I would describe myself as vaguely judeo-christian agnostic. A lot of religion appears to me to be self-deception, denial, and fear (THEY are out to get ME), but weaker-minded people are manipulated by a whole lot of things, surely not just religion. And you can get a bad impression of any religion because you only hear from those who are loud-mouthed and aggressive.

And finally (blah!) I don't see how someone can be a Satanist and not believe in Satan. Maybe a small group of people can define the word as meaning whatever they want, but most people on this planet would think of 'satanist' as involving, well, ssssssSatan.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:38 pm

in fact liquid, if i dont remember wrong, some one on this forum was corrected for saying merry christmas instead of saying happy holidays ( which is the correct way if u ask some fuckups)

if u ask me id nevermind a happy hannukka, merrry christmas or whatever, it all means " have a good time".

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:36 pm

On 2005-12-29 20:38, piddi wrote:
in fact liquid, if i dont remember wrong, some one on this forum was corrected for saying merry christmas instead of saying happy holidays ( which is the correct way if u ask some fuckups)

if u ask me id nevermind a happy hannukka, merrry christmas or whatever, it all means " have a good time".

I missed that post. You're right, if anyone ever took offence over something like that with me, I'd just laugh at them. If anyone wished me a happy "whatever", I'd wish them one back. Maybe I'm just reluctant to think people can be that petty. Also, it doesn't seem to affect me, I've said Merry Christmas a bunch of times in the last few weeks and received no censure at all. But heard lots about this 'war on xmas'.

What a strange thing to worry about and argue about. One thing I find about some religion, is that often real important spiritual issues are often sidelined while people argue over petty details. It's human nature I guess - people get hysterical over minor problems and then when there's a real problem, no one seems to care. Maybe because it's easy to solve small problems, especially in the short term with money and guns, but solving big ones look pretty bleak.

[ This Message was edited by: Liquid Len on 2005-12-29 21:37 ]

fra77x · Post by **fra77x** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:55 am

I recently read "the twilight of the idols" and "anti-christ", from freidrich Nitche, Maybe that's the point from where Messiah, call himself "satanist" . It's a statement about ethic, the sence of good and bad. I really can't constribute in a theological-philosophical conversation in a language other than greek. For some personal information, i consider myself an atheist, and i really like nitche (but Marx also).

[ This Message was edited by: fra77x on 2005-12-30 04:06 ]

H-Rave · Post by **H-Rave** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:47 am

Do you mean Freidrich Nietzsche,the 19th century german philosopher ?

[ This Message was edited by: H-Rave on 2005-12-30 04:52 ]

[ This Message was edited by: H-Rave on 2005-12-30 05:02 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:16 am

It seems to me that Messiah's reasoning is derived from christian dogma - i.e. if you don't believe in the christian God then you are automatically a follower of satan... It's pretty blinkered dogma, so I think it's pretty futile to react to it in the way that Messiah has.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:18 am

On 2005-12-29 19:43, Liquid Len wrote:
I just get annoyed when being attacked for saying merry Christmas.Everyone goes on
I'm just wondering, were you really attacked (physically or verbally) for saying Merry Christmas? Does that really happen? I hear a lot of people claiming it happens and I haven't seen a single case of it personally. I'm not being facetious or sarcastic, just wondering. Have any anecdotes you can share?

I agree with much of what you say here. There's a reason why colleges and universities, centres of learning, were until recently, run by religious people of different stripes. It may be difficult to logically define moral truths, but we all act like we believe in them in real-life situations anyways, whether we can agree on the fine details or not.

I would describe myself as vaguely judeo-christian agnostic. A lot of religion appears to me to be self-deception, denial, and fear (THEY are out to get ME), but weaker-minded people are manipulated by a whole lot of things, surely not just religion. And you can get a bad impression of any religion because you only hear from those who are loud-mouthed and aggressive.

And finally (blah!) I don't see how someone can be a Satanist and not believe in Satan. Maybe a small group of people can define the word as meaning whatever they want, but most people on this planet would think of 'satanist' as involving, well, ssssssSatan.

Just verbally.If I wanted physical abuse I would run into other peoples places of worship and denounce them which is wrong and irreligous.
It's annoying when you talk about Christianity in Europe now and everyone just says "bloody religion" causes wars 9 times out of 10.Then the next minute they're celebrating "XMAS" saying happy Diwali and asking what is this Rammadan?what does it signify.

I completely agree on these people that shouting "you must believe in Jesus" are bloody brainwashed morons that manipulate weak people but am glad to see constitutions that say you must help people if they are down rather than exploit them.
This is where things go wrong and don't understand differences.

Just to say religion doesn't create war,it's the human ego that's at the root of it.Can you believe that if a person in power has a bad day then he'll judge on that basis.Very volatile situation.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:27 am

On 2005-12-29 20:38, piddi wrote:
in fact liquid, if i dont remember wrong, some one on this forum was corrected for saying merry christmas instead of saying happy holidays ( which is the correct way if u ask some fuckups)

if u ask me id nevermind a happy hannukka, merrry christmas or whatever, it all means " have a good time".

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 84&forum=5

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:04 am

On 2005-12-29 20:38, piddi wrote:
in fact liquid, if i dont remember wrong, some one on this forum was corrected for saying merry christmas instead of saying happy holidays ( which is the correct way if u ask some fuckups)

if u ask me id nevermind a happy hannukka, merrry christmas or whatever, it all means " have a good time".

I know one member who was chastised by another because his signature reads "PRAISE JAH"!

The lack of spirituality in the world is equivalent to the amount of violence. Education should be better thought out, mostly spiritual education. Parents today just don't have the time for it unless they start very early in their childrens' lives. I'm speaking of the western world wherein both parents have to work in order to survive the economic strain.