your feelings about e-commerce and ebay?

[bosone]

hi!
i use very often ebay to purhcase any sort of things. and, when i have to buy something, i usually take a surf on the net and find a european dealer which has cheaper prices than in italy, even if consider shipping cost (where i live).
(it is happening for the hardware of my new PC! )

very often, some (italian) friends of mine ask me about buying through ebay or, more in general, through internet.
they are concerned about safety issues and security of online transaction. (with paypal, bank transfer, etc)
their first fear is, however, to pay someone, for example for an ebay auction, and then that the seller does not ship the package, so you will never receive anything and are frauded.

speaking for myself, i tend to trust the people from which i'm buying (expecially ebay feedbacks), but it's difficult for me to explain "why" i trust other people (and online transaction in general) to my friends.

and i am also impressed by the fact that, outside italy, e-commerce, ebay, and so forth are used much more than in italy. so i think that this fear is typical of italian people

so, it comes my question: do you feel secure when you purchase online? do you tend to trust a person from the other side of the world during an online transaction??
speaking for myself, in general i do ... and i have never been victim of frauds or similar (in over 50 ebay transaction and even more online trading/buying/selling)... am i just lucky, or people are really more honest than we may think of??

this was not intended be a discussion about the security of "secure servers", paypal, banks or so on (technology related issues)... i hope that this discussion will be focused to people themselves... and to their behaviour

[Zer]

I`d say ebay times are over. you`ll seldom make a bargain, those days. There are a lot of criminals there, too - esp. in germany who are selling theft gear or no gear at all.
Anyway I wish you good luck. But don`t make your career from ebay. Use it as a 2nd possibility.

[Zer]

with e-commerce in general I´ve made very good experiences as far as I knew, what I wanted to buy

[erminardi]

I find EBAY's fees too much expensive!!!
In Italy I prefer dedicated Pro Audio bazars like http://www.mercatinomusicale.com

Anyway, the thiefs and the fakes are, sadly, everywhere...

[bosone]

I find EBAY's fees too much expensive!!!

yes... i agree! expecially if you use paypal! but i was speaking from the buyer's point of view, which, of course, doesnt have additional fees apart shipping costs

In Italy I prefer dedicated Pro Audio bazars like http://www.mercatinomusicale.com

of course i know it!!
are there similar places in other european countries?

[Nestor]

Wow! It’s difficult to give you answer to such complex questions… I think we can give you some opinions, but nobody will give you a definite answer to such, unless there are a few experienced e-bay buyers-sellers.

The fact that you cannot see the person you are talking to, is already a bit bizarre when you are dealing with important amounts of money, from 300 Euros and up, it’s not easy. Then the terms and condition tend to protect e-bay and not the consumer, so if something happens, it is YOUR problem and not theirs. This is pretty normal too, as it happens in almost every realm of life. If you go to a restaurant and the food poisons you, the restaurant will at their time go against their suppliers, and their suppliers against food processing people, and they will go against farmers. Nobody wants to be guilty, so we are…

E-bay it’s, as far as I know and understand, something that will not die as suggested, all on the contrary, it will grow bigger and bigger every year. (Sorry to talk about technology, but I need to) I think that as security holes are discovered, things will go better, and as technology progresses, customers will feel more comfortable buying online, particularly on e-buy.

I think that there is nevertheless, a method of trust by long term use of a given store, I don’t know how you get to read it, but I know that there exist a trust zone or something like this on e-bay.

Perhaps the problem in itself, it’s not e-bay, but PayPal and some other related intermediates…

I have always thought that if I were to have a bank account related to e-bay, the first thing I would do is put just slightly more money that what is needed to pay what you are buying, in the case your details are taken through the net, so if they get money from you, they will get just a couple of cents… The problem is giving away your details of your main account, where you have all the money you need for a living, this is truly irresponsible to my eyes, most of all if you have children.

I don’t think we have to get away from any transaction on e-bay forgetting about it. I rather think we need to become knowledgeable about the process, get to know the details, get to know how criminals act and react, and then based in this knowledge do your business.

Those are just a few ideas and reflections, but I think this is a huge subject, that deserves much expertise to be answered in depth.

[kensuguro]

As much as I am a digital kinda guy, I'm not a fan of ebay or any other internet auction site.. there's been too many wierd cases in the past. Enough to atleast make me not want to take my chances. Sure, the chances of success are much higher, but when the chances of failure are also considerable, I'd think twice. I would consider myself lucky if I were able to make a streak of safe transactions.

I guess I'm kind of skeptical because Yahoo has an auction service which is very big in Japan. It's really big and everyone uses it, but it has problems ALL the time. Seeing that the problems do not stop, it's very hard for me to understand why people would still want to take the risk. And there's a shop down the street that sells the same product for just a little more. Wouldn't you pay the extra bit just to make sure you recieve the product? And in the real world, when something goes wrong, you can atleast point your finger at something or someone.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2006-01-31 09:10 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2006-01-31 09:10 ]</font>

[BingoTheClowno]

Regarding eBay I must say I only had pleasant experiences (well maybe only one bad one, but not a big loss). I actually bought from guys in Germany and South Africa with no issues whatsoever. EBay is the only source where you can find parts and items no longer in production.

[astroman]

yeah Ken, having worked in such a 'shop around the corner' myself for a quite some time I even get bad feelings at traditional mailorder or even supermarkets...
yet I cannot deny some advantages (or conveniences) of the e-type business way.

I've recently ordered memory and Cpus for a mere 1k because our regular supplier wasn't available and I know he's always a bit 'lame' when it comes to slightly outdated stuff...

I got this order through at least twice as fast as it would take me to convince him THAT we want exactly this stuff.
He should know me long enough to know WHAT he can sell to us and what's not appreciated.

this was a regular (online/mailorder) store and in fact the difference to the local seller would be less than 10% average - if he'd shift his butt ...

on the other hand a certain server rack will costs me about 2k Euro in the shop - on eBay it's 200-400.

In this context I see eBay as a serious danger for traditional stores - it even emphasizes the supermarket paradigm by putting almost anyone in such a position with it's extremely low cost model.

eBay is less than bargain if you consider it's 'advertisement efficiency' - you'd have to invest a fortune to get a similiar attention to your goods, whatever you offer.

Of course there's a lot of fraud on ebay, but even in regular shops they sell fake brand products and we've had more than one large store in Germany that closed after making cash on pre-payment.
And probably everyone knows someone who's been sold an almost broken car as new, just by some fresh color on the thing.

I've made a few good deals on eBay, but I also lost about 250 Euro on stuff that never arrived - you first have to learn that you cannot effectively sue someone for amounts inthe 100 Euro range.
Nevertheless I prefere to buy my music gear local, if possible

cheers, Tom

[braincell]

I used ebay once. I got what I ordered. My girlfriend used it a couple times and was ripped off. The guy just took the money and never sent anything. The police didn't seem very interested in it and I don't think this guy will ever be caught. The guy had some possitive feedbacks too so you can't trust the feedbacks. I don't trust ebay at all.

[garyb]

i've had very good results from ebay. usually, checking the text about the item and feedback eliminates problems. i only use ebay for things that are hard to find otherwise. remember, ebay is a flea market....

as far as ecommerce in general, i've had very good luck. i purchase most high tech and things like cdrs online and find that this works best. i even bought a refrigerator and stove from sears online....

anything that's available locally, i try to buy locally, for the most part, though.....

[symbiote]

It's definitely risky waters, but I've only had good experiences yet. I've been buying CDs and records online for (scarily enough) about 10 years, from online shops and individuals all over the world with only positive results. I've also gotten some bigger units, like a (dirt cheap) Virus Indigo that's been pure pure love.

My main rule of thumb is to stick to people/shops I've had good experiences with in the past. You might still get burned, but for example for records, alot of shops will just re-ship your order without asking any questions if you are a regular customer.

EMail/Phone contact is very good to get a "feel" of the person (and can also lead to just meeting interesting people.) It's also important to know how to balance shipping stuff and know roughly how how much customs/duty taxes you pay on stuff, since you can get burned on that.

I tend to buy alot of stuff locally too, mostly for the "no-hassle" effect of just being able to walk in someplace and get stuff right away and walk home with it. This is really something to consider for more expensive stuff, i.e. getting it right away, not risking the shippping-might-break-it aspect, and being able to bring it back locally instead of having to ship it back if it breaks, warranty stuff etc etc. [Sorry for the completely mutilated grammar in that last sentence, apologies to all native english speakers/writers worldwide!] For something that's worth like 2000$, I tend to not really care to save 100$ for the added risk and bigger hassle and have-to-wait-a-few-days-for it aspect, but that's just me.

Same for second-hand stuff, if you get scammed it's alot of hassle and police can't do much and etc.

So I tend to use online alot for cheaper stuff like CDs or movies or whatnot, since then if I'm scammed or it the package disappear, I care a whole lot less than for a 2000$ unit. For pricier stuff, I prefer to go local, for both new stuff and second hand, at least you can check the unit and test it out before getting it.

Also, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. At the very least, phone the person and ask/check for references, and on eBay, don't buy something worth 2000$+ from someone who has lots of positive feedback buying 20$ trinkets =P.

[BingoTheClowno]

On a side note, did you know that a normal search on EBay doesn't search in foreign countries? For example did you know that there is a separate ebay.de in Germany, ebay.fr in France and so on that don't list items from other countries?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BingoTheClowno on 2006-01-31 13:09 ]</font>

[Nestor]

Now, we all are talking about the buying experience, putting ourselves in the place of the buyer exclusively, but…

How is it e-bay to sell things, i.e., to do business online?

[astroman]

it enables my preferred local record shop to do international business, just as Symbiote mentioned

I see it as much more than a flea market

cheers, Tom

[Nestor]

On 2006-01-31 14:28, astroman wrote:
it enables my preferred local record shop to do international business, just as Symbiote mentioned

I see it as much more than a flea market

cheers, Tom

Can you explain yourself a bit more Astro, would like to know please, cheers

[astroman]

well, it's a small shop run by 2 dudes - or better '2 walking books of record history' if you prefer, somewhat focussed on quality 2nd hand vinyl.
They do a significant part of their business online.
eBay is one of the sources for their stock and also serves as a showcase - and it generates publicity for their own online store.
People feel more comfortable if someone has a good feedback.

You can start your own business on eBay with only a minimum of investment, and you can find a market niche as due to eBay's popularity even exotic things are 'found'.
Items don't 'compete' as on search engines, but are simply listed in chronological or value order.

I'm almost certain that in German economy eBay is responsible for the amount the true figures of economic growth lag behind prediction.
Years ago it was nonsense to try to aquire 2nd hand good for business use. Via eBay there's tons of stuff that you can lookup in a convenient way, for example servers from expired leasing contracts, software licenses, office furniture, kitchens etc.
Since the tax department now has an open eye on it, it has grown from the fleamarket stage

cheers, Tom

[Nestor]

Interesting...

What kind of account do you need to see staff there?

[Basic Pitch]

Ill comment on this one since I run a brick and mortar store which just happens to have an ecommerce side as well, so maybe I can give you a view from the inside

the very 1st common element to building trust with the consumer is the quality of your online store, clearly you know when you get to an ecommerce sitec(not ebay) that if it looks like crap and was thrown together in 5 hours then you should steer clear away from it.

Now on the other hand, if you can tell that the site you are on was developed professionaly and its obvious it took a good amount of time and money to build the content, then chances are its legit.

The other thing of course is to see what kind of SSL if any is provided, companies like Thawt offer cheap version of SSL called QuickSSL, sure Thawt is a big name, but a QuickSSL cert cost 100.00 bucks and is issues instantly.

Now as an Example a VeriSign commerce site pro seal cost anywhere from 1400.00-2500.00 a year and uses a forces 128-256bit encryption, so if they are going to spend roughly 2k a year on security its another sign of legitimacy. VeriSign requires alot of documentation before one can obtain SSL with them, proof of business, federal tax ID's and a grace period where you have to verify place of business by means of both phone calls, certified mail documents and emails.

Another thing would be to see if they spend money advertising, either via Overture or Adwords, these campaigns can be cheap to extremely expensive, I spend a fortune of money just on my ecommerce advertising alone, and that has nothing to do with my retail store.

Last but not least, call them on the phone, if they dont have at least a toll free line dont bother.

Any way, my point is, if your dealing with a legitimate company, even though you havent heard of them before but the price is right, just by following a few small guide lines can go a long ways.

Typically a scam site will not take the time to create lots of content, or design their site and certainly not protect you by offering a secure server for the transaction of sensitive data.

Just some general, but common items regarding ecommerse. You can also go to http://www.alexa.com and plug the URL into their and see how long they have been online, or even do a site look up in any one the major engines to see how many pages they have indexed as an example: SITE:NAME.COM no www included.

Welp thats about it, just wanted to chime in, and as said before, if it looks to good to be true, chances are it is

Cheers!

[Billy]

I got my second scope project card from a USA seller (well known) on ebay and got a much better deal than I did on the first one that I purchased in Australia, also I have got great deals on sequencing and plug in software from the US. No bad experience so far.