PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

XITE seems like the closest thing I have seen to my dream of a live-focused platform that is stable and predictable for live performance. In my opinion hybrid linux based systems like Korg Kronos should have taken over the market already, but something is keeping vendors from going in this direction, I guess their market tells them that users find it disappointing to find out that their cool synth is just a computer with a keyboard and some knobs attached.

So I have done some research and find that SHARC is a not quite obsolete and excellent choice for pro grade audio hard ware and software development, and has good developer tools, but they are limited to run only on windows. When designing a hardware synth, it maybe does not matter that your IDE, like VisualDSP++, runs only on Windows, because once you upload the synth to firmware on the hardware unit, users will interact with it there as a black box, etc.

But since these limitations bleed into the Scope environment, it kind of concerns me. So while I really want to buy a XITE1, and a lot of plugins, I realize that this is a very late time for a small company to be still pursuing this DSP-only strategy. So I have some questions, and it seems that this forum is the place to start.

1. PCIe - I have computers like a Mac mini 2018, a Surface Pro 5 which I run VSTs from my Roland A70 midi controller (only one at a time, but it's very compact and great for playing virtual piano). But I don't have a computer that has any kind of PCI slot. Can I use a PCIe to USB-3 converter to connect the XITE1 to my Windows 10 computer? I firewire, USB-C, Thunderbird, or any of those since-2000 methods of of connection to be supported any time soon or at all?

2. Mac and linux. Mac is the present, I hate it but it is widely used, linux is the future. Tell me you at least have CMAKE installed on your dev machine?

3. The minimal relationship between XITE1 and the midi controller in a Live setting - do I still need the PC when I play live? I am hoping that I can just bring the XITE1.

4. External control - can I control the XITE1 (or rather plugins running on it) from a remote device like iPad or Surface?

5. OSC - supported?

6. VSTi - what are the current limitations vis a vis VIST? VST3? 64 bit plugins? Does XITE1 itself appear as a plugin or can I load individual plugin chains off the XITE into my DAW or VST host?

7. Juce - will someday there be a bridge between DSP code compiled for CPU like ARM or Intel processors, and DSP / SHARC? I have ported some c++ code between Juce plugins and Cortex ARM M4 which is an embedded processor. It means to me, a non embedded developer, that it should be possible for vendors to write code that will run as a VST or on an embedded device.

8. Community - why is the community small and Scope is obscure? Perhaps like Juce the SDK should be free, but you pay for the hardware and a commercial license only but give away the dev tools.

Sorry I am a musician who has been away from electronic music for a while but previously only used Reason, and before that just played live instruments until I had to get a job.

I really love the idea of XITE but I wish there was integration with linux for a hybrid setup, and I get this feeling that ELK and other innovations will make OEM linux based systems that are almost as good as DSP solutions and are much easier for vendors to target, so while latency will not be as good, and even a real time linux kernel is not as purposeful as DSP processor, it is good enough and its really open.

thx
George

the operating system has nothing to do with the dsps. they do not run on Windows, Linux or OSX. the computer merely has the gui for the dsps, and the driver to interact with software apps on the host computer. this software to load the dsps and provide a gui is what is difficult and expensive to make. once it is made, it works. the sound quality of the XITE plugins or their usefulness is independent. there is no Mac or Linux option because it takes years to make the Scope app for a new OS and SonicCore has limited resources.

1. the XITE-1 has a PCIe interface.

2. use the OS that you like, but currently, most apps run in Windows. there are a few apps like DP and Logic that are only Mac, and very little for Linux. what is it that you want to run? if you are strictly interested in the XITE-1's devices, there is nothing second-rate about Windows.

3. yes, the PC is needed to provide the GUI and run the program(Scope) that loads the dsps. once the dsps are loaded, the computer can crash, it doesn't matter. the PC can be as small as a Mac mini(connected via firewire to Expresscard) or a 1 space rack-mounted computer. it can also be a 2 space or 3 space or 4 space or a tower.

4. yes, via midi, or an app that transmits midi.

5. not at this time.

6. the Scope environment is external hardware as far as the PC is concerned. it can certainly be used in parallel to vstis in the computer, and those vstis can certainly be mixed and processed in the Scope environment via ASIO. the user, Dawman, has made many, many dollars in live performance this way.

7. no, these two environments are not related. again, the computer can run those Juce and vstis into Scope via ASIO.

8. money and advertising. however, there are numerous HIGH END users who can use anything they want, yet still use Scope.

CPU-based solutions can certainly be every bit as effective as the dsps in the XITE-1, but not at nearly the same quantity. basically, to compete with the best that Scope has to offer, you would need a number of machines, because the dsps are DEDICATED processors, they don't have to watch the mouse, or manage ram, or harddrives or any of the other myriad processes that a computer requires to function. that means that the devices in Scope can be TRUE real-time devices, just like hardware, and like hardware, there is very little limitation about what level of quality can be maintained before the computer stops working. yes, you have a nice theory. we will see if the market actually makes such things. in any case, while an awesome device can be made using that real-time kernel, the cpu will still be much more limited in what it can provide in real-time compared to an XITE-1.

Thanks for those replies, I really appreciate your time.

I have some idea of the trade offs between cpu and dsp approaches to this problem, which is why I am here. But i do also know that cpu based systems seem to be winning in the market place.

Well it’s only money and time after all, I will enjoy it while it lasts.

One question that I think I did ask clearly enough - can I use a usb to pcie converter? To connect the XITE to a computer with not pci slot?

no. you can go thunderbolt to pcie or even easier and cheaper, expresscard, however.
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo ... rbolt.html

cpu is winning the marketplace, because mass sales with native systems is much easier and more profitable, not better.

Scope products are not just cheap toys. they are products that remain useful and at the cutting edge of audio quality for as long as the hardware holds out. there are people here using 20 year old cards that still sound as good or better than anything currently on the market. an XITE-1 ishould be a 20 years purchase. that makes it cheap. people spend way more money buying plugins that they will never use and way less time on their projects because they are on that endless merry-go-round of upgrades, which eats even more money.

Thanks for the information gary. I am not a professional musician so I won’t pretend that I am. Reason plus any decent computer and audio interface were fine for a lomg time, because for the last decade I was only arranging music in the DAW, not recording or playing keyboard. But i started playing piano last year and it changed my perspective.

sure, it's what you like.

if you want to get more involved with audio and music production, Scope is great. so is hardware...Scope is among other things, a device that connects the real world, the virtual world of the cpu and the virtual world of the dsps themselves, at least for me. when i monitor in Scope and not the sequencer, all 3 worlds connect in realtime, which is important to the things i like to do with my studio. this applies to live performance as well.

dante, a contributor here on these forums, is a big Reason fan. it's not an either/or thing, unless that floats your boat...

5 - in a way with our free device using will's code , yes to a degree -->
http://www.forums.scopeusers.com/viewto ... 10&t=35365