FIX |MINIMAX v7 GUI Pot Study 2020

[Spielraum]

Action Log: 20210526a
BUG fixed:
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36853

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Minimax v7 GUI Pot Study 2020
tested now on: xite1, winXP 32bit, scope5 (i think it fits all systems)

#Global Setting: Round

PotMovement-Round_oK.JPG (4.83 KiB) Viewed 15667 times

...it works correctly,
but the circle workflow is not so easy.

SCmini7-GUI-PotRound_oK.gif (562.1 KiB) Viewed 15667 times

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..
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#Global Setting: Vertical

PotMovement-Vertikal_Bug.JPG (4.93 KiB) Viewed 15667 times

...the straight workflow is easy to handle,
but it works a little faulty.
switch to Round or take PC-keys, if you have problems!

SCmini7-GUI-PotVertikal_BUG.gif (468.43 KiB) Viewed 15667 times

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..
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PC-keyboard "PageUp"+ "PageDown" ("Bild ↑" + "Bild ↓")
the steps work perfectly.

PC-keyboard_PageUp+Down_(BildOben+Unten).png (15.53 KiB) Viewed 14813 times

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..
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stay understanding and i hope it help to make more music!

[dante]

So who used MINIMAX w/- pot ? Rick Wakeman might have tried the original with pot.

[jpo_midigods]

Thanks Spielraum

I always believed its a 6 position midi knob problem, just like the Control Room one
128/6
21.3333333333
since midi only uses integers

[jpo_midigods]

... you can not have 6 equally spaced options for a midi knob.

[dante]

Unless you treat 126 as max !

[Spielraum]

i think, this is no midi theme.
#GUI <> circuit <> midi
midi binding converts the min to max value into 128 positive steps (Y axis ↕).
no matter how the source is spread...

#circuit <> GUI < mouse "vertical"
32bit value range is related to the mouse range (Y axis ↕).
in addition, there is the virtual adjustment by spacing the mouse from the side of the pot (X axis ↔).
it affects all pots, not just 6 steps.
the translation seems to be difficult to program...
...maybe even the mouse resolution plays a role?

[jpo_midigods]

Its really strange because there are 5 or 6 similar pots but only one has problem. Maybe mouse count start at 1 instead of 0, is common error between gui designers and coders and difficult to catch if doesn't cause an error.

I remember you can monitor the midi out of Minimax so when pot is moved using mouse or the wheel, it sends out 6 arbitrary fixed values BUT it doesn't change the value internally for center positions.

If you dial the same values using midi in to Minimax, it doesnt changes values internally also. But if you dial in the value -1 it works well.

So with a simple Modular or device that reads Minimax cc out and check for problematic values and change it for correct values and sends it in to Minimax could solve the problem when loading presets or using mouse.

I hope not to be wrong but it makes sense to me. ControlRoom has no pot but slider and no presets (?), but is not easily midi controlable for the same reason, always imho. In ControlRoom theres no reason to use 6 options instead of 4 or 8... tell me if I can help.

[Bud Weiser]

Its really strange because there are 5 or 6 similar pots but only one has problem.

Not true,- many have ...
see 1) - 5) here https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 42#p344942



Bud

[jpo_midigods]

Ah, ok. I remember i had a custom midi knob for Minimax years ago that worked well, i'll look for it.

[jpo_midigods]

Hum interesting issue i never dived into

since i always used only a bit mouse on filters, always clic and wheel (def is 3?)

then BCR2000 hardware and hours of tweaking seq and playing

then i had my Minimax XSynth board i use live never a problem just like Kraftwerk but mine is little bit more hacked

still not a bug for me - just little imprecision on secondary interface (GUI) as Spielraum pointed maybe due to original design compromises on windows side

this is easily avoidable since main interface (midi) is solid as rock and GUI behavour is consistent

but im afraid years ago some windows dll function code for standard Windows knobs started to count by 1 instead of 0 like during beta testing so Minimax muted

I have tested my custom pot and it works for every knob and get WYSYWYG using mouse - no uncertainties

I'll share happily as Modular if Spielraum is not cooking yet a helper device

Also found a hidden gem so im on fire, Ill continue testing a bit more

[jpo_midigods]

Hi, about the Minimax Millenium Mutation, I can confirm Minimax GUI is just a secondary midi control surface so no DSP issue here as Spielraum pointed, thanks Ron.

It seems due to archeology issues nobody is able to detach it from real instrument but this is no real problem.

We scope users can easily add different midi control surfaces to our loved Scope devices.

We can also modify surface behaviours legally, as i did years ago also with Minimax to suit my workflows and caprices.

So we users can live with our beloved Minimax mutation and SC developers concentrate on DSP affairs

And about the issue I propose it to be named The Minimax Millenium Mutation on next thread, maybe definitive one?

cheers,

jpo

[Bud Weiser]

We scope users can easily add different midi control surfaces to our loved Scope devices.

We can also modify surface behaviours legally, as i did years ago also with Minimax to suit my workflows and caprices.

So we users can live with our beloved Minimax mutation and SC developers concentrate on DSP affairs

No, I can not.
Midi preset system and Midi CC assignment is unfortunately not reliable total recall.
It should be highest priority to get it fixed.
Maybe there are users w/ enought time to readjust assignments every day,- but I´m not one of these.



Bud

[Liquid EDGE]

that's annoying, thanks for pointing it out.

better change things to round movement for the moment.

what happens when you use the page up and page down keys on the keyboard once the dial is selected even if using vertical pot movement?

[jpo_midigods]

Im testing my solution to share here as files, i have shared the info you need. Im talking about original instrument emulation, not yet with presets and keyboard use but good vibes.

Remember im new to this issue as always used midi for Minimax as intended by original designers. Im also confined alone for two months and help other people also. I have no special interest in this thread except if I may help.

What i have working It is usable as midi is. You can save with project. No especial configuration.

When you use keyboard or mouse you never get what you see exactly on screen but midi and synth is working consistently. So the adjustment is very little and can be automatized easily.

Im not beta tester, i have automated tests and my design lets you see and check everything is ok. Im only jumping the pot a bit via midi processor, thats all. Midi processors are common use.

Cheers!

[jpo_midigods]

Hi, good vibes with preset system as it seems to be another interface based on midi just like GUI, not connected directly with DSP because of files so also in Windows side just like GUI.

As I have mouse and keyboad working why not it works also with presets at save and load time?

Chances are that preset system is using DSP values instead of midi cc values.

But if its saving the cc values for controls then it will work also like GUI and maybe presets problems are gone.

If you save a mutated value and later you recall preset and have loaded this exact value this is not a preset bug.

Im sure this is the preset problem cause but i have not tested it.

Opposite to the GUI issue, caused by non standard use of midi on mouse knobs, preset system is just a list of values saved on windows files. No problems with that on windows apps over the years. I bet is well programmed also.Cheers!

[Spielraum]

what happens when you use the page up and page down keys on the keyboard once the dial is selected even if using vertical pot movement?

keyboard up/down, i'll check.

I have no special interest in this thread except if I may help.

thank you from the bottom of my heart for your support.
I was not registered with planetZ for 14 years, but I did browse through the forum very often.
believe me, there are many observers who thank you.

Chances are that preset system is using DSP values instead of midi cc values.

Presets are bound to real (relative) ciruit values.
midi cc values (ever 7bit uni) are translated by extra circuit. and then tied to the real values. this happens temporarily, but can be saved as a midi preset.
# unfortunately only 120 cc can be allocated.
# the only midi pipe is very stressed.
# not all controllers can be assigned cc (eg with arrays without min / max, or with combo text fields, etc).
# and if voice is set to 0 and back to "> 0", the assignments can be deleted (if the developer forgets the voice exclusions).
but, everything can be fixed with a lot of diligence, understanding and testing...

i think, the GUI topic is complicated...

HAVE FUN + LET THE SUN IN YOUR HEART


we hope that we will not be exposed to an electrical magnetic pulse

[Liquid EDGE]

Thanks SR.

I am just a little confused with this talk of midi control.

So if you have that pot controlled by a knob via midi cc everything is fine regardless of round or vertical?

Also, there are no problems at all if you just set project settings to round pot movement?

[jpo_midigods]

Hi, no problem at all,

I will not be testing round vs vertical since i believe is regardless. But I'll try to share soon something usable for you to use mouse and keyboard.

My GUI usability design principles are:
user must be able to point and clic options precisely for any 6 options control.

when clic is off, user must see on GUI exactly what the DSP is doing without any uncertainties.

user can always point and clic, then use keyboard arrow keys for one-to-one values so user must always be able to send all 128 possible values for any continuous knob control.

preset system will come later. Cheers!

[Spielraum]

Thanks SR.

YEP! the steps work perfectly with PC-keys.
thanks for the hint /\

[Liquid EDGE]

Super. As that’s how I use scope mostly. Click on dial with mouse, use the keyboard keys to adjust, it’s more accurate as well in general. I try to avoid using the mouse for everything. Get RSI otherwise.