PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hi all.

I am in the process of building a new PC and I can't find a motherboard with a PCI slot let alone two for my Creamware cards so it got me looking at other alternatives and I came across the external riser cards.

These cards typically come with a PCI-E x1 card to one or two external PCI slots on a card connected together with a cable with a USB 3.0 A plug on both ends.

I've seen some YouTube videos where people use them with SCSI adapters and graphics cards but some people say after 6 months it has damaged their external card(s) and motherboard. Of course, you will always get one or two bad experiences but I was wondering if anyone has tried such a solution for their Creamware/Sonic cards? If not, what other options do we have to run these cards in a modern computer with no PCI slots?

Cheers!

There are some treads here,- p. ex. in "tech talk" ...
viewtopic.php?t=44249

It seems, some solutions work, bur you won´t get the same data thruput you got w/ a set of PCI cards inserted in native PCI slots of a motherboard w/ proven chipset.
It seems, socket 478, 775 and 1366 ( and 1150 ? ) motherboards were the champions still.



Bud

As Bud wrote, there are some other threads, where mainboards are listed.
There still are mainboards with pci, but you have to search within the professional range.

Just to give an example : ASUS Pro A620M-C-CSM

nebelfuerst wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2024 6:30 am Just to give an example : ASUS Pro A620M-C-CSM

But only 1 PCI slot ...



Bud

Challenge accepted
4 PCI slot: https://www.dfi.com/de/product/index/1628

Here is the page, you just have to filter for "pci".

https://www.dfi.com/de/product/subcategory/?category=28

nebelfuerst wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2024 10:18 am Challenge accepted
4 PCI slot: https://www.dfi.com/de/product/index/1628

Here is the page, you just have to filter for "pci".

https://www.dfi.com/de/product/subcategory/?category=28

O.k.,- thx !
But I don´t understand the website well, wondering what the prices are, where to buy and if it´s possible to buy only a single item at all.
Otherwise it seems to be hard to find a (german) dealer for end users of such mainboards.



Bud

Not sure, where to get such board outside a company. (There is always some sort of reseller between DFI and companies.)
Maybe some markets like aliexpress or ebay provide a chance to get hold of these boards. Didn't check it myself, yet.

I use this board from Supermicro for my Scope PCI system: https://www.supermicro.com/en/product ... d/x11ssa-f

Note that it would require an older gen CPU but I use it alongside other workstations with more modern CPU's and GPU's where relevant/necessary. I use a non-PCI variant for my Xite system as well. Both are 100% stable, and with the addition of a TPM chip it even runs Win11 though it's technically unsupported. I even use TPM 1.2 where 2.0 was supposedly the requirement (for secure boot), I think somehow the E3 Xeons allowed install without further workarounds, but since it runs fine even a consumer CPU should work if you hack the install (that's only if you face issues with it "accepting" the system for Win11).

Note you have to ensure you purchase the correct RAM, it's easy accidentally buy RDIMMs instead of UDIMMs if you haven't built a Xeon rig before.

valis wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:12 am I use this board from Supermicro for my Scope PCI system: https://www.supermicro.com/en/product ... d/x11ssa-f

Note that it would require an older gen CPU but I use it alongside other workstations with more modern CPU's and GPU's where relevant/necessary. I use a non-PCI variant for my Xite system as well. Both are 100% stable, and with the addition of a TPM chip it even runs Win11 though it's technically unsupported. I even use TPM 1.2 where 2.0 was supposedly the requirement (for secure boot), I think somehow the E3 Xeons allowed install without further workarounds, but since it runs fine even a consumer CPU should work if you hack the install (that's only if you face issues with it "accepting" the system for Win11).

Note you have to ensure you purchase the correct RAM, it's easy accidentally buy RDIMMs instead of UDIMMs if you haven't built a Xeon rig before.

I fear the Win11 requirements dramatically changed meanwhile.

At least, I´d need a TPM chip for my AsRock Z97extreme6 and cannot find.
But when I did,- the Intel i7 4790k and iGPU doesn´t match the requirements either.
And that´s my main (currently still Win7 Pro SP1 x64) DAW w/ RME Raydat which previously ran Scope/XITE PCIe.

My faster laptop has TMP 1.2 and Win11 installed because it was very early already,- so it´s Win 11 Pro 21H x64.
Unfortunately, I´m stuck w/ that version because it doesn´t update anymopre except for some security stuff.
This laptop wouldn´t run p.ex. Cubase AI coming w/ Yamaha hardware (like Montage M) ´cause the requirements are Win10 22H or Win11 22H and 64Bit only.
Meanwhile, Win11 is 23H level ...

So, it´s hard to imagine other DAW app manufacturers will support Win11 (Pro) 21H x64 for long if at all.
It seems, Reaper will be the only halfway future proof solution.

And as long as SCOPE v7 x64 is getting no updates,- Scope itself runs way better in 32Bit and the hope to have everything in only 1 machine w/ XITE as a top notch audio interface w/ ASIO keeps to be a dream unfortunately.
I´m in the same situation like you are, using several machines,- but it´s costy since we now have the highest energy costs in the world and maintaining several machines is time consuming as well.
Not the best scenario in my age now.



Bud

Win11 requirements didn't change, they are just more strict for consumer CPU's because that drives consumer purchases. Making workstation/servers obsolesce too fast drives people to open source, MS isn't stupid.

If your motherboard has a TPM header, you don't need one that's specific to your brand. You just need to know the number of pins on the motherboard header, they should all conform to the same specs. 1.2 chips are far cheaper than 2.0, so I grabbed one just to see and was surprised it worked. The Xite box was moved from Win10 to Win11 (fresh install, no upgrade path nor tricks used) and no hassles. 23E1 or 23E2 went right on. Need to do the PCI box but there's little need to hurry, I don't do as much online with either.

valis wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:49 am ...
If your motherboard has a TPM header, you don't need one that's specific to your brand. You just need to know the number of pins on the motherboard header, they should all conform to the same specs. 1.2 chips are far cheaper than 2.0...

In the AsRock Z97extreme6 manual, there´s a pinout and it´s named:

TPM Header
(17-pin TPMS1)

The pinout as also labeling of every pin is 100% identical w/ this "TPM TPM2.0 Modul ASRock TPM 18-1 Pin Sicherheitsmodul Win11 für Infineon" @ebay,-
https://www.ebay.de/itm/234291116068?_t ... 8ZV8Z5QCK3

I dunno why it says "18-1... for Infenion" ...

Shall I buy ?
And when I do, what about the processor and iGPU specs (Open GL / CL etc.), expectation of a NVMe boot drive and other nitpick s##t ?
Will Win11 Pro x64 23H2 or better 24H2 install nonetheless and work flawlessly?

It´s not for XITE-1, for my RME (RayDat) rackmount DAW instead.

For XITE-1, I´d opt my Lenovo W541 2.8GHz i7 quad, 16gig RAM and w/ already activated TPM 1.2.
But as I said, it already runs Win11 Pro x64 21H2 (installed november 2022) which seems to be set in stone and not receiving upgrades (22H2, 23H2, 24H2).
Latest Windows tool to remove malicious software installed today and it received a Lenovo system update (sort of driver update) in september.
The latest quality update was KB5001716 aug. 07.2024
The latest definition (Windows Security Platform) update was KB5007651 in july 2023.
Is this all normal and like it should ?

But,- when I use that laptop w/ XITE-1, I also want to run a handfull assorted VSTi plugins in addition and I´m very unsure about if this will work when the native stuff requires at least Win10 22H2 or Win11 22H.

I also found no answer on the question if Win11 21H is a crappier solution than Win10 22H,- is it ?

valis wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:49 am 23E1 or 23E2 went right on.

You mean 23H1 or 23H2,- right ?
Or is this something special ?



Bud