ears get distressed

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:14 am

I've been noticing a problem lately.. When I speak to people in a very audially busy environment, I seem to hear almost no speech at all. Well, not that I don't hear the speech, but I have a lot of trouble interpreting it. While others seem to catch on with the conversation just fine. I'm guessing my ears have gotten used to listening to everything as a whole (as in mixing) and just decided to treat all the sounds equally.. Though I can make out what the other person is saying, it seems to require a great deal of concentration.

I dunno, I doubt it's any sort of physical damage of my ears, but more of a mental problem of not being able to concentrate. I can do it perfectly fine when I compose though.. that's the strange part. Picking out parts in a tune is still normal as ever.

And then, on the other hand, when there aren't distracting sounds around, I seem to hear the speech just fine. I think my ears just get distracted very easily.

I wonder what's going on. It's especially annoying at parties. It's definitely not the cocktail party effect, cuz I'm perfectly interested in the conversation. It's just really freaky cuz I'd really hate it if something was seriously wrong.

Post by **garyb** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:03 am

i've noticed the same effect.i think you are not concentrating.a conversation is hard work sometimes!and the mind wanders,soo much to hear.....

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:36 pm

I think you have damage to your ears. It is very easy to damage your ears especially if you use headphones or go to nightclubs or rock concerts.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:01 pm

I should probably get my ears checked out before I cause any more damage. yikes... bummer.

Post by **hubird** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:29 pm

I don't believe you tortured your ears that mutch in the past, Ken.
I really think this fenomenon is part of your personal devellopment.
You are loosing interest a bit in all the talkings around you, specially when there's some noise around.
If you have to make some effort to understand, you weight that effort against the possible profit.
The conclusion you intuitively make could be you're better off in your studio...

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2003-01-19 23:35 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:00 am

I have some hearing loss and have had my ears tested. There is hearing loss in the upper frequencies. For more information see this website:

http://www.abelard.org/hear/hear.htm

Post by **garyb** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:58 am

most people in the so called western world have minor to moderate hearing loss.(when compared to the now theoretical wild human)

Skunker · Post by **Skunker** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:36 am

what do you mean "upper frequency" ?
and what age are you ?
Most people over 30 do not hear above 12.000.
Ear decays as soon as you are 16.
it's a good idea to do a checking.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:12 am

>>> in a very audially busy environment

I have the same problem, it's actually a problem only with girl in disco clubs

. i cannot understand a word nor have a discussion in this kind of environment, it has always been like that.

On the other hand, when i did a frequency checking at the military service, the guy was impressed, perfect condition. I could qualify for some special jobs (but didn't want to do military service anyway so).
Ten years later it may be different. I'm a bit better in lips reading now.

I think it is not a ear problem you have but yes it is always a good idea to do a checking.

Another story : i work with a sound engineer who mixes at rather high volumes. He cannot notice excess of phases and things like that, at the begining he thought i was an obsessed freak who rejected his work. Actually, I think he has a serious ear problem on certain frequencies .He can work but there are defects he cannot notice.
But he is the kind of guy who can have a discussion in a night club ..

So i advise you to do a checking, it can only be good and interesting for you..

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2003-01-20 06:26 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:21 am

>>>>> but more of a mental problem of not being able to concentrate

that's what was thinking of .... although it can also be the freqency of the people you speak with (can you reformulate, you are being phase cancelled

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2003-01-20 06:26 ]

Herr Voigt · Post by **Herr Voigt** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:13 pm

I can say: "The 2nd basson please f#, not f!" I can also say: "The cymbals must be more silky!"
But following a discussion in a loud environment can be a hard piece of work ... Maybe our ears are ok, but a bit too specialized!?
However: Don't worry!

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 7:12 am

Hello Ken, well… first of all, I agree completely with those who are advising you to go to a specialist. Absolutely do it please Ken! There is no wrong in checking your ears.

I used to go to some huge concerts, like the Queen ones and other great but LAUD groups. This would kill my audition capacity for about a week or so… letting me extremely sensitive, not willing to hear anything at all, I wanted silence instead. It didn’t happen too many times fortunately, cos I decided to protect myself after being at a Pat Metheny concert. It was so extremely laud that after the concert I could hear sort of a sustained “eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee” inside my head for several days…

Now, if it happens for me to go to a laud party or concert, I would put some special cotton or something like that, into my ears and like this, I protect myself from harmful frequencies.

I just would not speak with anybody in a busy environment, I can’t stand it. It is highly recommendable not to talk in such a situation, even if it is nowadays so common. Perhaps it would be good to change place, or going with friends to a quieter places. I know there are pubs etc., that are supporting the idea of communication, but why would you communicate under a heavy burden of frequencies around you? If you are forced to, well, perhaps in this particular situation, but it is always recommended to go away to talk, or just to the bar, whatever, but don’t stand there too long, this is one of the main causes of hearing loss, statistically speaking.

Guys, if you go to laud concerts, please, protect yourself with some special cotton, to be found in medicine related shops, pharmacies, etc.

Hope to hear soon a positive answer from you Ken, telling us you have absolutely nothing in your ears. Be well…

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:12 pm

Yes everyone use protection in loud places. I don't know why they have to make it so loud. I don't see how anyone can have a conversation in a nightclub with the music at the level they play it.

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:44 am

greetings to all
i'm in india for a university school now, but i'm managed to connect to internet and to see whats going on on planetZ.
this topic catch immediatly my attention, because actually i HAVE hearing loss, and i. experiencing the same trouble you are describing.
not being able to understand what people are saying in a loud environment (when *loud* doesnt mean 130dB, but only when there are, for example, 15 people in a room speaking altogheter) may be the first hint for knowing about hearing loss.
it's three years ago that i did my FIRST audiometric check, and it was evidenced a loss in high frequency (like a high cutoff filter!), higher than 5000 Hz. in particular, situation in my left ear is worst that right ear.
i don't know the causes for this, maybe an illness when i was young. for sure, i NEVER went to discos or to very loud environment in my life.
so please, ken, make a check immediatly, just to be sure... i know what it mean to be "half deaf", and i think it is the WORST experience one can have. first, because there are no cures at all (hearing aids are NOT a cure, and they dont work like glasses...) and second because "deafness" brings you far from people around you... you are with them but you can not listen to what they are saying... i tis VERY unpleasant...

anyway, i don't think i will stop making music. i'm sure i will never be a pro, and my songs will never be perfect from the production point of view (you know: reverb and many fx works on high frequencies, and high frequency part of the spectrum "define" a good mix!) but at least i can work on the composition... even beethoven were deaf, but its nine symphony is still a masterpiece.. (ehi, i don't want to be compared to beethoven!!!!!!!)

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:52 am

I just need to figure out where I should go to to be checked.. it's some sort of specialized test isn't it? With specialized equipment? (have no idea)

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:08 am

still here!

yes, you have to go to a doctor and say you want to do a specialistic visit to a ear specialist (actually, i dont't know how its called in english neither in japanese

)
the visit itself consist in enetering in a small soundproof room, wear headphones and listening to pure frequencies who go up(or down) in volume. when you actually *hear* them you raise your hand to tell that you are hearing that frequency at that volume (db).
please, do not feel anxious (as i did!) when you will enter the room.

the other opportunity is to go to some shop who sells hearing aids and ask them if you can check you earing, but in this case they may be actually interested (or maybe not, me and my mother found really professional persons!) in telling you that you have some hearing loss!

sometimes, in these kind of shops the hearing test is for free.

goodbye, back to school now! see you (maybe), next days or when i come back to italy.

please ken, if for you is not a problem, inform me about your test!

Micha · Post by **Micha** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:11 am

Oh yeah, me too. I hate to sit there with music coming from all sides. All the time I have problems to follow the discussion because the sound is such a messy mix of different frequencies. In such a situation I'm forced to build up a notch filter for speech only. The output of this filter, let's call it the "word mess" now has to be filtered again for the relevant words that build up the information I want to know. Pooh! Hey folks, sitting in a loud environment can be such a hard work. The job gets even harder in case the music is just bad. Ok, I don't give examples of "bad" music here. Just think about music you would put on the headphone of your worst enemy. (Ok, you run the risk of a full success but at least then you know WHY this is your worst enemy)
Ken, take it easy, get your ears checked and enjoy your the overall impression capturing monitors that are your ears. And go to quiet places for a good discussion.
Happy pulsaring
Micha

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:30 am

I have had a "milder" tinitus for 10 years now. Also loud souns distort in my ear - it sounds broken. Part of the reason is, that when I was a child I sometimes (about twice a year, when the wind came) had inflamations in my middle ear. I tell you, that HURT. Once the preasure became so intense, that my ear drum split. While this was quite a relief, as it took away the pain, it has become a handicap to me later on, because of the scar that came out of it. I strange phenoomenon I experience is when hitting 2 drumsticks at each other. I get a "squuuiick" sound afterwards. If I do it fast more times, the "squuuiick" will come after the last sound from the sticks. Also I have twice experienced pain so big, that I cried when traveling by plane. And the last time it was realy a long term boost to my tinitus. I could here it over the noise of cars on the street. I will probably never fly again. For years this was quite an annoyance to me. I was often sad about it, and afraid, that it would evolve as I get older.

However almost a year ago, I had huge problems hearing, what people said to me. If they where on my right side, I would often mannage, but if they where on my left side - I would just stare at them, wondering, what information they where trying to pase over to me. The strange thing was, that I could not hear the sound of my fingers sliding over eachother right in front of my left ear, but my left ear could hear my fingers sliding over my cheeck (thru the skin). Also I could hear my footsteps thru my body. I had therefor a feeling, that I could hear, but the sound could not get to me. I was right. My doctor (who even mostly have old patients) had never seen anything like it! Ears of earwax had finally filled up my ear. Aparantly my small hairs in my ears, wich are supposed to transport out the ear wax, where damaged (probably due to 9 years of using ear plugs). He washed my ear (that was a very strage feeling), and the result was pretty extreme. I had expected something like the effect of taking out an earpluck after a concert (sounds become very bright), but this was the double effect. His room went from dull to extremely hard sounding. The sensation lasted for the rest of the day.

Another thing i got from it was a copy of an article, that my doctor gave me. It was written by a specialist in hearing imparements. That day changed my life to the better. The article explained some of the reasons for tinitus, and it explained, that if one does not put ones ears into more danger, there is very little chance, that the tinitus will become much worse by age. In short it is about hearing loss. When you get a level of hearing loss, your brain will boost the output from your ears so the vital information will have a better change of getting heard. This however also boosts the back ground noise, that all ears produce (i.e. from blod circulation), and that will cause noise to be heard. The brain can also to some level boost more narrow bands of the frequency spectre. And I must say, "there is something about it

", because when I got my ears washed, my tinitus dropped remarkably. My brain did not need to boost the signal so much anymore, and thus I now percept less back ground noise.

I will round up with some noteworthy things about hearing imparements. You can damage your ears in other frequency bands than the ones heard. Loud levels of low frequency noise can cause high frequency damage, because the liquid in your inner ear mooves too much, so the small hairlike perceptors break or wear. Fast sounds are extremely dangerous. I am talking about sounds like glass ticking on eachother. People working on a brewery are in very high danger zone. In Denmark 1/3 of all men at the age of 18 has some level of hearing imparement - do not underestimate the danger of going to a disco or a concert. Creatures often take several generations to adapt to the demands of the invironmet. Most people today live with daily sound preasure levels way above what people did 200years ago. We are just not build for it. Some people argue, that they to soem extend can cure tinitus by training the ears to cope with higher sound preasure levels. While the theory sounds very plausible, I suggest taking great caution if experimenting with this, and only letting the volume go up very little every week. Danger often arives before we feel it. There was a link to organisation in one of the first posts in this thread. They state, that this sound level will feel annoying, this sound level will feel very annoying etc.. I must stress that the annoyance level is very different among people. Some people are over sencitive. But there is not nessesarily a direct link between annoyance level and danger level (wich also is different from person to person).

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:38 pm

another symptom (added to planes and all that have ben cited by immanuel) can be when it hurts when you swim in the sea (salt and cold, but it can be theysmptom of a trauma).

Also, ma be people noticed that after a long session under headphones (which i tend to avoid in any case) the day after your ears are filled with wax (more than usual at least), as a natural protection by your own body...

well i guess its good to have ear tested regularily, to find problems, but also to follow the natural ear decay, which happens to anyone (the contrary is the exception)...

Is it "ortophonist" ? the specialist of ears ? (looking for the english word).

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2003-01-22 17:40 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:33 pm

most musicians have some permanent hearing loss.permanent means that it doesn't get fixed.once the damage is done it's done so, the best thing to do is to prevent further damage.there are two things that a musician would want to avoid.one is loud headphones.in fact,avoid headphones when unnecessary.the other is loud bands.it is a fantasy and a falsehood that good music is only made a very high volumes.there was a time that when a band faced 20,000 people,the only way for those in back to hear was from scores of loud amps on stage.a big power amp in those days was 300watts bridged.pa systems these days have stereo amps that are 1300 watts a SIDE.loud stages are not needed and in fact,they make bands look like amatuers.